The Confederate Flag

[Lonestar_logic]

For the idiots that think the Civil War was about slavery here's some facts for you.

Only about ten percent of the whites in the South owned slaves.

Do you honestly think that the other 90 percent would risk life and limb over an issue that they were not affected by? Send their sons off to fight a battler to save the livelihood of some plantation owner?


You people are as stupid and the nonsense you spew.

 

[rightwinger]

For the idiots that think the Civil War was about slavery here's some facts for you.

Only about ten percent of the whites in the South owned slaves.

Do you honestly think that the other 90 percent would risk life and limb over an issue that they were not affected by? Send their sons off to fight a battler to save the livelihood of some plantation owner?


You people are as stupid and the nonsense you spew.

They in fact did

Like many wars, they fought for the economic advancement of a small percentage of the population. In this case a free 4 million strong labor pool

 

[Lonestar_logic]

For the idiots that think the Civil War was about slavery here's some facts for you.

Only about ten percent of the whites in the South owned slaves.

Do you honestly think that the other 90 percent would risk life and limb over an issue that they were not affected by? Send their sons off to fight a battler to save the livelihood of some plantation owner?


You people are as stupid and the nonsense you spew.

They in fact did

Like many wars, they fought for the economic advancement of a small percentage of the population. In this case a free 4 million strong labor pool

Bullshit.

Explain why two acts of Congress were passed during the Civil War, One in 1864 (13 Stat. 11) and one in 1866 (14 Stat. 321) which allowed slave owners whose slaves enlisted or were drafted into the Union military to file a claim against the Federal Government for loss of the slave's services.

And explain why the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 freed slaves in the Southern or 'rebellious' states but in border-states that were loyal to the Union, slavery continued to be legal. If a slave ran away to join the military and the owner knew where and when he joined, the owner could file a compensation claim as long as he or she was loyal to the Union.

 

[rightwinger]

For the idiots that think the Civil War was about slavery here's some facts for you.

Only about ten percent of the whites in the South owned slaves.

Do you honestly think that the other 90 percent would risk life and limb over an issue that they were not affected by? Send their sons off to fight a battler to save the livelihood of some plantation owner?


You people are as stupid and the nonsense you spew.

They in fact did

Like many wars, they fought for the economic advancement of a small percentage of the population. In this case a free 4 million strong labor pool

Bullshit.

Explain why two acts of Congress were passed during the Civil War, One in 1864 (13 Stat. 11) and one in 1866 (14 Stat. 321) which allowed slave owners whose slaves enlisted or were drafted into the Union military to file a claim against the Federal Government for loss of the slave's services.

And explain why the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 freed slaves in the Southern or 'rebellious' states but in border-states that were loyal to the Union, slavery continued to be legal. If a slave ran away to join the military and the owner knew where and when he joined, the owner could file a compensation claim as long as he or she was loyal to the Union.

I'll simply explain it with the 13th Amendment...thank you

 

[Lonestar_logic]

They in fact did

Like many wars, they fought for the economic advancement of a small percentage of the population. In this case a free 4 million strong labor pool

Bullshit.

Explain why two acts of Congress were passed during the Civil War, One in 1864 (13 Stat. 11) and one in 1866 (14 Stat. 321) which allowed slave owners whose slaves enlisted or were drafted into the Union military to file a claim against the Federal Government for loss of the slave's services.

And explain why the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 freed slaves in the Southern or 'rebellious' states but in border-states that were loyal to the Union, slavery continued to be legal. If a slave ran away to join the military and the owner knew where and when he joined, the owner could file a compensation claim as long as he or she was loyal to the Union.

I'll simply explain it with the 13th Amendment...thank you

Nothing to do with the Civil War.

Arthur Hirsch's recent article about the Battle of Gettysburg reveals a disturbing ignorance of the political dynamics that brought this nation to a war that 150 years later remains the most cataclysmic event in our history ("A defining day relived," July 2).

It accepts the shallow but unchallenged premise that the Civil War occurred because slavery was practiced in the South, and that righteous resolve to abolish the institution left the U.S. with no option other than a resort to arms. This is a myopic view with which many historical facts simply cannot be reconciled.

Tariffs, not slavery, precipitated the American Civil War

 

[Sallow]

I fly the flag here on occasions as it's part of my family heritage. And yes, I'm proud of it. Yes, the North won the war but all the South ask now is to be left the cluck alone.
It's a beautiful flag indeed

-Geaux

Well no, they did not.

They seized US territory, fired on US troops and were fighting to enslave Americans.

They were despicable, treasonous and the lot of them should have been executed.


The only thing the Traitorous southern flag is good for is toilet paper.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Confederate-Flag-Toilet-Paper/sim/B001B0ZMI8/2]Amazon.com: Rebel Confederate Flag Toilet Paper: Explore similar items[/ame]

Instead we flourished. Instead went on about our way. Stand-by.. The next uprising will make 1861 look like a family get together. And the left had best learn how to defend themselves. Take the time now to prepare and start thinking which side of the picket line you want to be. Then be ready to defend it like the patriots are starting to do all around us. It's just that important

-Geaux

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

 

[rightwinger]

Well no, they did not.

They seized US territory, fired on US troops and were fighting to enslave Americans.

They were despicable, treasonous and the lot of them should have been executed.


The only thing the Traitorous southern flag is good for is toilet paper.

Amazon.com: Rebel Confederate Flag Toilet Paper: Explore similar items

Instead we flourished. Instead went on about our way. Stand-by.. The next uprising will make 1861 look like a family get together. And the left had best learn how to defend themselves. Take the time now to prepare and start thinking which side of the picket line you want to be. Then be ready to defend it like the patriots are starting to do all around us. It's just that important

-Geaux

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

It is what usually happens with traitors

 

[R.C. Christian]

Instead we flourished. Instead went on about our way. Stand-by.. The next uprising will make 1861 look like a family get together. And the left had best learn how to defend themselves. Take the time now to prepare and start thinking which side of the picket line you want to be. Then be ready to defend it like the patriots are starting to do all around us. It's just that important

-Geaux

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

It is what usually happens with traitors

Big talk. You should know a lot about treason punk.

 

[Boss]

Oh slavery was an issue guys, please don't think I am claiming otherwise. However, it was more of an economic issue than a civil rights issue. Let's not pretend the Union was fighting for equality of the negro, because I assure you, that was not the case. It took another century for that battle to be fought.

From the Southern perspective, they had purchased slaves in good faith, it was perfectly legitimate in the eyes of the law and the SCOTUS had upheld that these slaves were property. It was no different than if people bought horses to do labor today and the government suddenly came along and indicated it was going to set all the horses free. Under the constitution and the rulings of SCOTUS, the Southerners had a legitimate complaint. It's abhorrent by today's standards, we think of it as reprehensible, and it is... TODAY! We can't go back in time and retroactively apply today's standards to the past. At the time of the Civil War, indeed, until AFTER the Civil War was over and we ratified the 13th and 14th Amendments, slavery in America was legal, legitimate and upheld by the SCOTUS and Congress.

No one here is making any excuses for, or trying to justify the institution of slavery. You can pretend that is what is happening if you like, but you're being dishonest. A lot of people like to try and "glorify" the North and imagine the South as a bunch of racist monsters who wanted to keep blacks in chains. The reason slaves were predominantly in the South is because that was how you harvested cotton, sugar cane and tobacco. If those crops could grow in the North, there would have been plenty of slaves there too.

on this issue that I find "reprehensible". Come on now, "It (slavery) was no different than if people bought horses to do labor today..." Your rhetorical excess really undermines any credibility you still hang on to. Here's a test on how well you've got the situational ethics thing nailed down. In fifty words or less give a moral justification for these statements by Jeff Davis.

"If slavery be a sin, it is not yours. It does not rest on your action for its origin, on your consent for its existence. It is a common law right to property in the service of man; its origin was Divine decree."

"African slavery, as it exists in the United States, is a moral, a social, and a political blessing."

"My own convictions as to negro slavery are strong. It has its evils and abuses...We recognize the negro as God and God's Book and God's Laws, in nature, tell us to recognize him - our inferior, fitted expressly for servitude...You cannot transform the negro into anything one-tenth as useful or as good as what slavery enables them to be."

Jeff Davis is simply expressing what the vast majority of white people on the planet thought in 1861. Oh yes, it's deplorable and reprehensible, and unfortunately it's part of the white people's past they ALL bear responsibility for. What SOME white people try and do is shuck their responsibility by pretending this was purely a Southern sentiment when it wasn't. In fact, I think it is precisely that sort of denial that led to another century of oppression by whites against blacks.

As for "situational ethics" I don't understand what you mean. The situation was it was completely ethical to own slaves and slaves were considered property by the highest court in the land. The situation was, slaves represented about a billion dollars worth of property to the people they belonged to.

You try to finesse your way out of this "the issue of the war was not slavery but the preservation of the Union" by morphing it to this "The Civil War had nothing to do with giving black people equality". Make up your mind what position you want to defend.

I'm not trying to "finesse" anything. To the South, slaves were purchased property... that's not THEIR take, that's the official ruling by SCOTUS. They bought the slaves, they owned the slaves, the slaves belonged to them just like their cattle and horses. Virtually no one in America thought of slaves as "people" as terrible as that sounds today. Abolitionists were about like PETA today, fighting for humane treatment of animals, not equal rights. The issue was about slavery, but it was an economics and property rights issue from the Southern perspective. The North did not declare war on the South to end slavery, the South seceded from the North and the North's only objective was the preservation of the Union, it had little to do with the issue of slavery itself.

rightwinger: The Civil War was about slavery wrapped up in "States Rights" rhetoric. A States Right to allow slavery.

...I'll simply explain it with the 13th Amendment...thank you

Except that the South wasn't fighting to allow slavery. The US Supreme Court had repeatedly upheld the institution of slavery and it was a perfectly legitimate and legal practice in America. How can you be fighting to allow something that is already allowed and has been allowed for 85 years?

How can the 13th Amendment explain anything when it was non-existent until AFTER the war was over? Now, had the US ratified the 13th Amendment in 1860, and THEN the South seceded and fought, you're argument would be legitimate. But that's not what went down.

 

[Boss]

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

 

[Asclepias]

The PC police seem to be gaining momentum with this issue of late. I see more and more commentary about it on the Internet and hear people commenting from time to time on television. So I decided maybe it's time to open a thread on the topic and deliver my personal views on the matter.

Let me begin by saying, I have done some pretty extensive research into my genealogy, as my family name is very rare and unusual. Before the Internet and boundless resources to discover this kind of information, we mostly relied on elder family members to tell us about our past. My grandmother used to say we were "Black Dutch" and for years, I had no idea what that meant or what it was. As it turns out, the term "Black Dutch" can mean almost anything. It is a 'catch-all' identifier that has been used by several mixed cultural groups through the years.

Interestingly enough, my ancestors were actually the original "Black Dutch" and they came from German peasantry living in the Black Forest from almost Biblical times. Seems some King, I think it was Otto II, wanted to exterminate all the poor people in society, as a means to raise the culture to a higher level. In order to escape persecution, many peasants in Germany fled into the Black Forest, and thus began the legacy of the Black Dutch. In the 17th and 18th centuries, it was also used by Jamaicans, Haitians, people of mixed Caribbean descent, and also by some Native Americans who married Europeans.

Much of my ancestry was hidden for many years out of fear of persecution. After years of research online through Ancestry.com and other sources, my sister and I have pieced together the colorful quilt of our personal lineage. I am largely Native American, with two great grandparents who were full blooded Cherokee and Choctaw. I have the German peasant Black Dutch, along with African, Creole and Asian ancestry as well. Now, the thread topic is not about my background, but I just wanted to stipulate this from the start, so as to avoid any misunderstanding as to my intentions or persuasions when it comes to the topic. For all intents and purposes, I am a Mutt. I'm probably less "white European" than anything, and what little bit I have in me is peasant class.

I've grown up in Alabama, the Heart of Dixie. All my life, I have seen the Confederate Flag. I have at least two ancestors who fought and died in the Civil War, fighting for the Confederacy. I've read countless books on the war, watched hours of documentaries, heard several lectures and I'm constantly digging for new information because it's a subject that has always interested me. I will say two things here, first... it is troubling to me how much 'disinformation' has been taught regarding the Civil War, and two... it is despicable how racist supremacist groups hijacked the battle flag of the Confederacy and made it into a symbol of hate. But even more disturbing to me is how uneducated people have bought into the image and view the flag as something offensive.

Regardless of whether some are offended by the flag, it is a part of American history and our past. I've never understood the mindset that seeks to ban the flag or remove it from view in public. Is this supposed to erase something or correct anything? Couldn't we just as easily make the same argument that we should pretend the Civil War never happened and we never had slavery in America? What about images of Dr. King, the police using firehoses in Birmingham, Bull Connor, George Wallace... why not erase them from memory as well?

There are many things in our past to be ashamed of. The fact that our founding fathers weren't compelled to end slavery at the onset of this nation and it's constitution is probably first and foremost to me, but also, the way Italian and Irish immigrants were treated, the way Asian immigrants were treated, the way many Latino immigrants are still being treated. To me, the battle flag of the Confederacy is kind of a trivial thing to get your panties in a wad about. Especially when it comes to the point about banning it and removing it from public view.

Why not instead, use it as a learning tool? Recognizing the significance in both the Southern and Northern viewpoints surrounding the Civil War and why it was fought? Acknowledging that we don't have a right to not be offended by something? Understanding that tolerance is accepting something that may bother you? Finally, realizing that hiding away our symbols of the past in a dark closet is never going to change our history.

I fly the flag here on occasions as it's part of my family heritage. And yes, I'm proud of it. Yes, the North won the war but all the South ask now is to be left the cluck alone.

It's a beautiful flag indeed

-Geaux

It was great when I pissed on it in Georgia.

 

[Asclepias]

I fly the flag here on occasions as it's part of my family heritage. And yes, I'm proud of it. Yes, the North won the war but all the South ask now is to be left the cluck alone.
It's a beautiful flag indeed

-Geaux

Well no, they did not.

They seized US territory, fired on US troops and were fighting to enslave Americans.

They were despicable, treasonous and the lot of them should have been executed.


The only thing the Traitorous southern flag is good for is toilet paper.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rebel-Confederate-Flag-Toilet-Paper/sim/B001B0ZMI8/2]Amazon.com: Rebel Confederate Flag Toilet Paper: Explore similar items[/ame]

Instead we flourished. Instead went on about our way. Stand-by.. The next uprising will make 1861 look like a family get together. And the left had best learn how to defend themselves. Take the time now to prepare and start thinking which side of the picket line you want to be. Then be ready to defend it like the patriots are starting to do all around us. It's just that important

-Geaux

You guys keep saying that. We know its not true because you cant possibly be dumb enough to tip your hand right?

 

[Asclepias]

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Sorry bud. You guys lost. You got stomped. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I can have sex with a white girl in Mississippi and all they can do is turn red with anger. Thats how we know they lost.

 

[hazlnut]

The northern states were hell bent on politically controlling the nation.

They picked slavery as their hot button issue to rally around.

If the issue of slavery hadn't worked the north would have championed another issue. ..

Another dunce educated in the South....

 

[hazlnut]

The CSA flag does have a few good uses.

 

[rightwinger]

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Did you check that out with Gen Sherman?

 

[Boss]

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Sorry bud. You guys lost. You got stomped. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I can have sex with a white girl in Mississippi and all they can do is turn red with anger. Thats how we know they lost.

Sorry bud, there was no stomping. The fact you can have sex with white girls has nothing to do with the Civil War, if it did, you'd have been able to have sex with white girls from 1865-1964, and we both know what would have happened to you in Mississippi then. So if you'd like to credit the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for allowing you to have sex with white girls, that's fine. For me, the race of who I have sex with isn't that big of a deal. In fact, I hardly ever pay attention to race... learned that from Dr. King, by the way.

You should really try and educate yourself and overcome your bigotry, lots of good people fought and died for your right to be treated as an equal.

 

[Asclepias]

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Sorry bud. You guys lost. You got stomped. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I can have sex with a white girl in Mississippi and all they can do is turn red with anger. Thats how we know they lost.

Sorry bud, there was no stomping. The fact you can have sex with white girls has nothing to do with the Civil War, if it did, you'd have been able to have sex with white girls from 1865-1964, and we both know what would have happened to you in Mississippi then. So if you'd like to credit the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for allowing you to have sex with white girls, that's fine. For me, the race of who I have sex with isn't that big of a deal. In fact, I hardly ever pay attention to race... learned that from Dr. King, by the way.

You should really try and educate yourself and overcome your bigotry, lots of good people fought and died for your right to be treated as an equal.

Sorry bud. They got stomped. After every war there is a transition period. The fact that I can legally have sex with a white woman in Mississippi tells me the South got stomped. Its not a big deal but it is a sign that the war achieved its aim. Humbling the south. I know good people died. I thank them. It looks as if I am more educated than you. You keep insisting despite the historical documents that the war was not over slavery. Either you are emotionally invested or dumb. Which one is it?

 

[Boss]

If the south "rises again" they will be stomped again.

Simple as that.

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Did you check that out with Gen Sherman?

If a general today did what Sherman did, you and every other liberal in the world would demand he be executed for war crimes. Sherman rode through the South and burned defenseless towns, killed the women, children and old folk. That took a lot of military prowess, didn't it?

A study of the actual battles shows the best strategic military mind was that of Robert E. Lee, a man who was opposed to slavery, incidentally.

 

[rightwinger]

Again? They weren't "stomped" the first time. There were more lives lost in the Civil War than in all other American wars combined. Now that's an amazing statement given that we fought two brutal world wars, but it's true. Had it not been for two crucial strategic battles, the South would have very likely won their independence. The first three years of the war, they kicked the North's ass all over the place.

Now if makes you feel better to be cocky and jut your chest out over what was a very narrow victory after the most brutal war this nation has ever seen, then so be it. Historians disagree.

Sorry bud. You guys lost. You got stomped. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. I can have sex with a white girl in Mississippi and all they can do is turn red with anger. Thats how we know they lost.

Sorry bud, there was no stomping. The fact you can have sex with white girls has nothing to do with the Civil War, if it did, you'd have been able to have sex with white girls from 1865-1964, and we both know what would have happened to you in Mississippi then. So if you'd like to credit the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for allowing you to have sex with white girls, that's fine. For me, the race of who I have sex with isn't that big of a deal. In fact, I hardly ever pay attention to race... learned that from Dr. King, by the way.

You should really try and educate yourself and overcome your bigotry, lots of good people fought and died for your right to be treated as an equal.

Gen Sherman and Sheridan burnt them to the ground. Their rail lines were torn up. Crops were destroyed. Slaves were freed. Ports blockaded. Confederate Army destroyed

Looks like a stomping to me