The Census and the Triumph of Conservatism.

[Revere]

The Constitution was a gift from the founders, who could have formed any government they wanted to, to protect citizens from government.

That's not jingoism or statism.

 

[Revere]

The Federal government prolonged slavery by denying free states the right to recognize fugitive slaves as free men.

It was the Federal government that denied the states the right to HAVE slaves, moron.

Correct, and to prolong it by allowing slave states to endure and deny free states to consider slaves free men.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That reminds me, wasn't the wingnut line that the census was going to be manipulated by the left in some evil conspiracy?

LOLOLOL

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Federal government prolonged slavery by denying free states the right to recognize fugitive slaves as free men.

It was the Federal government that denied the states the right to HAVE slaves, moron.

Correct, and to prolong it by allowing slave states to endure and deny free states to consider slaves free men.

Bullshit.

 

[JBeukema]

It was the Federal government that denied the states the right to HAVE slaves, moron.

Correct, and to prolong it by allowing slave states to endure and deny free states to consider slaves free men.

Bullshit.

Never heard of the Fugitive Slave Act?

One of the best cases of- and argument for- state interposition/nullification in American history.

 

[The T]

The Constitution was a gift from the founders, who could have formed any government they wanted to, to protect citizens from government.

That's not jingoism or statism.

It's Liberty and fact.

 

[The T]

The "aging population" moves to states which were not taxing their retirements away from them.

Texas And Florida were huge gainers...and you can belive WE mean to make precident to stave off the Blue State Menace.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Correct, and to prolong it by allowing slave states to endure and deny free states to consider slaves free men.

Bullshit.

Never heard of the Fugitive Slave Act?

One of the best cases of- and argument for- state interposition/nullification in American history.

Of course I've heard of it. To leap from it to claim that slavery would have somehow disappeared more quickly if the federal government had gotten out of the way is retarded.

 

[txlonghorn]

Always reminded of "OH, BROTHER WHERE ART THOU" when the census nonsense-us comes up.

Little Hogwallup boy - "I nicked the census man."

Delmar - "Now, there's a good boy."

 

[JBeukema]

Bullshit.

Never heard of the Fugitive Slave Act?

One of the best cases of- and argument for- state interposition/nullification in American history.

Of course I've heard of it. To leap from it to claim that slavery would have somehow disappeared more quickly if the federal government had gotten out of the way is retarded.

Nobody said that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Never heard of the Fugitive Slave Act?

One of the best cases of- and argument for- state interposition/nullification in American history.

Of course I've heard of it. To leap from it to claim that slavery would have somehow disappeared more quickly if the federal government had gotten out of the way is retarded.

Nobody said that.

Yes, Revere did. He said the Fugitive Slave Act (or his reference to it) prolonged slavery. Therefore, it is reasonable to look at that conversely, which is to say,

no Act, no prolongation of slavery, therefore slavery would have disappeared sooner.

Idiocy.

 

[JBeukema]

Yes, Revere did. He said the Fugitive Slave Act (or his reference to it) prolonged slavery

It was a prolonging factor.

He also recognized that the fed helped end/prevent slavery in some places while prolonging it in others.

Unlike you, he's not so stupid as to assume things are always as simple as black and white. The federal government's various actions had varying effects in different territories, but it is doubtless that the failure to take a hardline approach to ending slavery prolonged it in those territories where it was not only permitted, but enforced by the federal government even when one escaped the slave states- the Fugitive Slave Act being case-in-point.

See post 62

 

[rightwinger]

The census showed people moving from blue states to red states. It does not show those people becoming Republicans.

Much of the increase in population in Florida, Texas and Arizona are Hispanic Americans...they are not too happy with the Republicans based on recent legislation

 

[uscitizen]

Hmm good point those border states with pop growth is due in large part to hispanic growth. Might make immigration reform that would suit right wingers a bit more difficult.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The framers weren't real big on slavery. The short story is the southern delegates wanted slavery, the northern delegates didn't. The north caved to the south because they felt at the time it was more important to pose a united front against the British and they could always come back and revisit slavery later, which we did, but probably not the way they would have wanted.

Exactly. Thomas Jefferson found himself in a quandry in writing about Liberty when there were fellow humans in Bondage by a few of the Founders themselves...including himself.

Wasn't he the one who changed 'subjects' to 'citizens', paving the way for the denial of civil rights to blacks by declaring them to be non-citizens?

Average saying:

"It's like an entertainment corporation that's owned by the employees..... there's We, The People of the Park, and our guests. - We just have to define who 'We' are and decide how much to charge the guests."

 

[AVG-JOE]

The census showed people moving from blue states to red states. It does not show those people becoming Republicans.

Much of the increase in population in Florida, Texas and Arizona are Hispanic Americans...they are not too happy with the Republicans based on recent legislation

Not too thrilled with the democrats either - it should be an interesting election season if nothing else.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes, Revere did. He said the Fugitive Slave Act (or his reference to it) prolonged slavery

It was a prolonging factor.

He also recognized that the fed helped end/prevent slavery in some places while prolonging it in others.

Unlike you, he's not so stupid as to assume things are always as simple as black and white. The federal government's various actions had varying effects in different territories, but it is doubtless that the failure to take a hardline approach to ending slavery prolonged it in those territories where it was not only permitted, but enforced by the federal government even when one escaped the slave states- the Fugitive Slave Act being case-in-point.

See post 62

So if the Fugitive Slave Act had not been passed, how much sooner would slavery have ended,

sooner than December of 1865 when it actually ended?

You're free to estimate.

 

[Agit8r]

The states that gained the most have populations that have religious objections to birth control, or which teach abstinence-only sex ed (or in the case of Tejastan, both)

Duh

Texas? Census gains not necessarily good news - San Antonio Express-News

 

[midcan5]

Or is that the triumph of a failed and failing ideology.....I realize it is hard for wingnuts to have even a smidgen of empathy or reason, but consider the implications of the piece below on the people and on their lives. For once exclude liberals / unions or other easy finger pointing and think.....

'Alabama Town’s Failed Pension Is a Warning' By Michael Cooper And Mary Williams Walsh

'Prichard, Ala. — This struggling small city on the outskirts of Mobile was warned for years that if it did nothing, its pension fund would run out of money by 2009. Right on schedule, its fund ran dry.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/business/23prichard.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...he-triumph-of-conservatism-4.html#post3119653


Edit:

Debates today over slavery point to one obvious fact, when looking back history changes greatly. Revisionism and pure BS is the history of American conservatism today.

"In other words, the only state right the Confederate founders were interested in was the rich man’s “right” to own slaves...

In part because of this renewed rhetoric, in the coming remembrances we will likely hear more from folks who cling to the whitewash explanation for secession and the Civil War. But you have only to look at the honest words of the secessionists to see why all those men put on uniforms." http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/opinion/19Ball.html

 

[Cuyo]

1. The Founders envisioned

Why should we care what they envisioned any more than what FDR, King George, Taft, Hitler, Lincoln, or anyone else envisioned?

Gawd, you're an idiot.


If you can't tell the difference between the people who wrote The Constitution and Hitler, you really need help.

Get some.

That's not what he said.