The Census and the Triumph of Conservatism.

[rightwinger]

glad Vietnam and korea worked out eh?

Who is bragging about the success of Viet Nam or Korea?

We were supposed to learn our lessons

so when a dem dumps wars on a rep successor?

Stupid wars are still stupid wars...regardless of who starts them

 

[thereisnospoon]

Conservatives are an odd bunch. First the census is an invasion of privacy and an enormous government conspiracy. Some even said don't send it in. Then it becomes proof that people moving to other parts of the country is proof of some magical correlation. Remember folks, Obama won some unexpected states. Counting your chickens before they hatch can be hazardous. Texas grew because of Hispanics, a few of the blue states dropped because of aging population and weather. Remember the boomers.

American remains a liberal progressive nation, we have passed healthcare, repealed DADT, improved food safety, we are gradually moving out of Iraq, extended child healthcare, created thousands of jobs, improved consumer regulation, two great SCOTUS choices, and got America back on her feet even if a little unsteady. No republican administration from Coolidge/Hoover to Reagan and the Bushs ever accomplished feats to match these - NEVER - and this is in just two years. 90+ Accomplishments of the Obama Administration so far: Hope and Change: 90+ Accomplishments of the Obama Administration so far

Interesting article on redistribution here: For the GOP, Redistricting Carries Risks - Jim O'Sullivan - Politics - The Atlantic

the census asks too many intrusive questions. As a liberal it comes as no surprise you cannot understand that concept. For you people, it is always safer to comply.
We don't see it that way. Yes we believe the government should take a count of the population for statistical purposes and to apportion House districts, but that is it.
All the other nonsense they claim to use to fill the government statistical abstracts reeks of tracking our every move. Your side wants government involved in you everyday lives. We want government to do what it is Constitutionally supposed to do and nothing else. We want limited non-intrusive government.
Where you got the idea that this is in any way shape or form a lib naiton is a mystery.
Shortly after the mid terms, Gallup polled the country on the question of ideological self identification. Surprisingly and to the Left quite alarmingly, the results of the poll found that just 20% of those queried identified themselves as liberal. 40% of those polled identified themselves as conservative and the rest moderate or right leaning.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/120857/Conservatives-Single-Largest-Ideological-Group.aspx
We are fiscally conservative and generally right leaning on soical issues. We value the nuclear family. We look to our houses of worship for fellowship. We are a spiritual nation.
Like it or not, the pendulum is again swinging right. We just had over three years of radical liberalism. We have had enough. The Left got shellacked in November. That's a fact. Had liberalism in DC been effective or successful, those dispatched from their seats would be going back to Washington in three weeks.
"We" did not pass any of the things you mentioned( Obamacare. DADT, etc) ...The American people were overwhelmingly opposed to socialized medicine. Congress in deference to Obama's agenda passed the measure anyway. That fight is about to begin. It is highly probable that your precious Obamacare will have at least parts of it lose funding.
In fact, I expect much of damage done in the form of overbearing legislation promoted and rammed down our throats to be in part ,reversed.
However, the first order of business is to rein in the now out of control EPA. Earlier this week, EPA Chair Lisa Jackson stated her department would act "unilaterally" to regulate green house gasses. She and the unelected accountable to no one EPA will go forward in making energy far more costly. Congress will have to deal with this and hopefully will rein in the EPA and place it back under control of Congress where it belongs.
You can go on thinking Americans agree with your brand of government. It's ok. It doesn't make it so.

 

[bucs90]

The South is the big winner in the Census stuff. The South is gaining more power while the liberal Northeast loses it.

Despite their zealous attempt to reel in illegal immigrant votes, the Libs are losing the ideology war.

By 2020, the left wing as we know it today will be extinct. Someone will still occupy the D seats, but it won't be Pelosi type liberals. It'll be Joe Leibermann types.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What's the founding document? The Mayflower compact?

The Constitution. The thing that separates the American system from all others. The single distinguising factor from all the other societies that failed.

Define success and failure. America tore itself apart in less than 100 years. The nation we have today barely resembles the nation that existed when Hamilton was alive in anything but name and half-assed reference to the Constitution in the course of political discourse and rhetoric.

America failed to protect its people from corporation until the Wobblies and others fought for reform.

It fails to uphold any principles that I can determine with any regularity and there's an argument to be made that the People no longer have any say in so much as the election of their rulers.

Then there's the economic collapse we're headed toward.

I don't give a damn whether this or any other nation-state as such 'succeeds' or 'fails' if success is defined as stagnation and failure to adapt to changing times or as the simple preservation of a name or the deign of a piece of cloth or approximate borders. I care about society's success or failure when it comes to doing what is right and always striving to better the world. If we could solve all this nations economic and social ills by splitting it up three ways, giving the new nations wholly new names, and replacing the Constitution with something demonstrably better, then why should anyone object out of some idiotic loyalty to a name, a scrap of cloth, or some vague concept of the nation-state as it is?

I claim no loyalty to this or any other nation-state. I am loyal to my principles and values and I support this or any other nation/civilization/society/what-have-you insomuch- and only insomuch- as it upholds thoser principles and values and acts accordingly. That's what it means t have principles, you see, as opposed to blind patriotism.

You are a very self centered individual.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hmm good point those border states with pop growth is due in large part to hispanic growth. Might make immigration reform that would suit right wingers a bit more difficult.

Illegals cannot vote. Furthermore, many illegals did not return their census forms. Finally, FL, TX and AZ were NOT the only states to gain seats at the expense of the traditional left leaning rust belt. You are reminded that one election cycle<(NOV 2010) already resulted in a large swing to the GOP.

 

[bucs90]

Hmm good point those border states with pop growth is due in large part to hispanic growth. Might make immigration reform that would suit right wingers a bit more difficult.

Illegals cannot vote. Furthermore, many illegals did not return their census forms. Finally, FL, TX and AZ were NOT the only states to gain seats at the expense of the traditional left leaning rust belt. You are reminded that one election cycle<(NOV 2010) already resulted in a large swing to the GOP.

Correction: Illegals "are not supposed" to vote.

Remember ACORN???? Remember states with no ID requirement to vote? If an illegal can learn to read English and show up to a booth, he can vote. At least in some states.

 

[thereisnospoon]

4. "In the big picture, there are two ways Democrats can deal with this: Admit that their tax-happy, regulation-loving, fiscally incompetent, union favoring, public sector nurturing, debt ridden, sharp edges rounded off, politically correct, smoke free, salt free, fat free, common sense-free social and economic experiments have been colossal disasters — or they can continue to try to nationalize every aspect of America and pursue the extinction of greener pastures as fast as possible so people have nowhere which to escape. Which will it be?"http://michellemalkin.com/2010/12/19/census-data/

I think Democrats should continue the assualt with taxation, so future generations are not stuck with the Granny-Tax from retard irresponsible spending and borrowing. Retards just refuse to accept responsibility for their own actions. When you dance, you have to pay the fiddlers.

It was not WE who danced. It was the entitled who received the largesse of the producers. Government is at fault here. Greedy politicians with their insatiable appetite for spending caused this. Have you noticed the price of gas lately?.....Up over 50 cents per gallon on avg over since September. That's $10 more for each 20 gallon fill-up. Why is gas so much more expensive? Simple. The price of gas and oil are based in US Dollars. While you have been gleefully watching your liberal government spend recklessly, the federal reserve has been shoving money into the stock markets to prop those up. In turn, the federal government must print new dollars to pay for the spending. This increases the money supply and reduces the value of the dollar. Even though demand for gasoline is at a 7 year low, prices continue to rise to make up for the dollar's decline.
If there is one factor that alerts Americans to the condition of their economic well being it is the price of gas. all it takes is a 10-15 cent upward move and people will believe things are getting more expensive and as a result will slow their spending. The economy contracts and we again fall into recession.

 

[NYcarbineer]

But YEt this CONGRESS...a LEFTIST ONE continues to FUND activities in BOTH...

How convienient for youse guys eh?

You remain transparent. And fucking laughable.

You know what the problem with war is?

Once you get into them it is hard to get out. Both wars were political quagmires that Bush dumped on the suceeding President

It will be the singular event defining the Bush failure

glad Vietnam and korea worked out eh?

They have nothing to do with Bush. Why are you bringing them up? Do you think other disasters make Bush's disasters less disastorous?

 

[rightwinger]

Hmm good point those border states with pop growth is due in large part to hispanic growth. Might make immigration reform that would suit right wingers a bit more difficult.

Illegals cannot vote. Furthermore, many illegals did not return their census forms. Finally, FL, TX and AZ were NOT the only states to gain seats at the expense of the traditional left leaning rust belt. You are reminded that one election cycle<(NOV 2010) already resulted in a large swing to the GOP.

Correction: Illegals "are not supposed" to vote.

Remember ACORN???? Remember states with no ID requirement to vote? If an illegal can learn to read English and show up to a booth, he can vote. At least in some states.

link?


I gotta see this

 

[JBeukema]

You can't call yourself an American if you don't believe the country was founded to impose limits on government.

I'm an American by definition; I am a citizen of the United States of America

This country, like all others, was founded to serve the purposes of those leaders who founded and formed it. They had their ideals and they had their interests. Their actions reflect the interplay between idealism (eg: the war for independence), pragmatism (eg: the Great Compromise), and simple self-interest (they never freed their won slaves- or their own children).

None of them were gods. None were angels. None were prophets of divine inspiration. So stop treating them like such and appealing to their words as the words of the Great Architect himself. Just because certain man might have believed something or held a given vision does not make it a good one- or a feasible one.

If you like an idea or system, defend it on its merits. I don't give a damn if Lucifer himself designed the bicycle, it remains a great mode of transportation. If Hitler had recommended a bicameral congress, it wouldn't suddenly become a bad idea. Just because Jefferson, Hamilton, Ghandi, or any other particular person forwarded an idea doesn't give it any weight or merit.

It takes a lot more to be an American than just birthright.

I said nothing of birthright. Try again.

 

[JBeukema]

So I repeat: why should we care what 'the Founders' envisioned any more than what FDR, King George, Taft, Hitler, Lincoln, or anyone else envisioned?

Is it so much to ask you to defend the vision itself on its merits?

"in order to form a more perfect union"....
works for me!

By that reasoning, you must support anyone who promises Utopia.

understanding the left's disdain for this country

Who here has expressed any such disdain?

The United States is the greatest example of true democracy

No, it's not. Nor was it intended to be at the outset.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
-Benjamin Franklin

We are a Republican Government, Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of democracy...it has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.
-Federalist

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.
-Thomas Jefferson

Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.
-James Madison

The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.
-John Quincy Adams

Pure democracy cannot subsist long nor be carried far into the departments of state - it is very subject to caprice and the madness of popular rage.
-John Witherspoon
​

 

[elvis]

Here's a question: How can anything be "more perfect"?

 

[JBeukema]

A half million Americans, mostly white, died in the course of ending slavery.

What the hell else do you want?

You are trying to rationalize with a liberal. Liberals by nature are irrational non-thinkers. Liberals emote.
Liberalism demands a constant state of misery. At no point is a liberal ever to be satisfied. Nothing is ever good enough for these people. Liberals are conquerers. In order for liberalism to succeed, all other points of view MUST be squashed and held out of public opinion.

Where DO you get this stuff?

The anus is an opening at the opposite end of an animal's digestive tract from the mouth. Its function is to control the expulsion of feces...

 

[JBeukema]

The Constitution. The thing that separates the American system from all others. The single distinguising factor from all the other societies that failed.

Define success and failure. America tore itself apart in less than 100 years. The nation we have today barely resembles the nation that existed when Hamilton was alive in anything but name and half-assed reference to the Constitution in the course of political discourse and rhetoric.

America failed to protect its people from corporation until the Wobblies and others fought for reform.

It fails to uphold any principles that I can determine with any regularity and there's an argument to be made that the People no longer have any say in so much as the election of their rulers.

Then there's the economic collapse we're headed toward.

I don't give a damn whether this or any other nation-state as such 'succeeds' or 'fails' if success is defined as stagnation and failure to adapt to changing times or as the simple preservation of a name or the deign of a piece of cloth or approximate borders. I care about society's success or failure when it comes to doing what is right and always striving to better the world. If we could solve all this nations economic and social ills by splitting it up three ways, giving the new nations wholly new names, and replacing the Constitution with something demonstrably better, then why should anyone object out of some idiotic loyalty to a name, a scrap of cloth, or some vague concept of the nation-state as it is?

I claim no loyalty to this or any other nation-state. I am loyal to my principles and values and I support this or any other nation/civilization/society/what-have-you insomuch- and only insomuch- as it upholds thoser principles and values and acts accordingly. That's what it means t have principles, you see, as opposed to blind patriotism.

You are a very self centered individual.

Because I refuse to turn in Anne Frank, I'm self-centered?

 

[JBeukema]

Here's a question: How can anything be "more perfect"?

Grammatically? Or are you asking what changes we'd see today?

 

[JBeukema]

Hmm good point those border states with pop growth is due in large part to hispanic growth. Might make immigration reform that would suit right wingers a bit more difficult.

Illegals cannot vote. Furthermore, many illegals did not return their census forms. Finally, FL, TX and AZ were NOT the only states to gain seats at the expense of the traditional left leaning rust belt. You are reminded that one election cycle<(NOV 2010) already resulted in a large swing to the GOP.

Correction: Illegals "are not supposed" to vote.

Remember ACORN????.

Do you? It was a bunch of Fox lies and video editing that lead that witchhunt.

 

[elvis]

Here's a question: How can anything be "more perfect"?

Grammatically? Or are you asking what changes we'd see today?

I think it means moving toward perfect.

 

[JBeukema]

Here's a question: How can anything be "more perfect"?

Grammatically? Or are you asking what changes we'd see today?

I think it means moving toward perfect.

It's more poetic than 'better', okay?

Next you'll want them to spell everything correctly- and settle on one spelling

 

[JBeukema]

Technically, the Constitution was never ratified, since the copies weren't all identical...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Illegals cannot vote. Furthermore, many illegals did not return their census forms. Finally, FL, TX and AZ were NOT the only states to gain seats at the expense of the traditional left leaning rust belt. You are reminded that one election cycle<(NOV 2010) already resulted in a large swing to the GOP.

Correction: Illegals "are not supposed" to vote.

Remember ACORN????.

Do you? It was a bunch of Fox lies and video editing that lead that witchhunt.

yes...in your little comfy blankie world, everything can be excused with a conspiracy theory
Yeah, ACORN...Pure as the driven snow. Please.
Look, lefty moonbat, facts are facts. You can spin chuck duck and dive all you wish. Doesn't change a thing. Liberalism is taking a wallop from the voters because they DON'T WANT IT.