The Biggest Lie wasn't "Like your doctor, keep your doctor".

[Sun Devil 92]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

"Cost of health care" ?

Just what does that mean ?

Cost of unit health care ? Cost of total health care ?

I am looking for basic defnitions.

BTW: When you bring up Zeke Emanuel's name, you've mentioned a real lightning rod.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You can't answer the question.....Oh, well.

You don't like Greenbeard's answer?

What answer ?

I don't see him in this exchange.

 

[Greenbeard]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

"Cost of health care" ?

Just what does that mean ?

Dark red text indicates a hyperlink. If you want to learn about a topic, learn about it. There's little sense in asking to be "pointed to" resources you don't intend to read.

Cost in this context always refers to total national health expenditures. Every component of any attempt to tackle that is ultimately either aimed at limiting unit price growth or improving the efficiency and effectiveness of care delivery.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

"Cost of health care" ?

Just what does that mean ?

Dark red text indicates a hyperlink. If you want to learn about a topic, learn about it. There's little sense in asking to be "pointed to" resources you don't intend to read.

Cost in this context always refers to total national health expenditures. Every component of any attempt to tackle that is ultimately either aimed at limiting unit price growth or improving the efficiency and effectiveness of care delivery.

The last paragraph is part of what I was looking for.

Of course terms and metrics associated with a phrase like "improving the efficiency and effectiveness of care delivery" just add more confusion.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

BTW Smartass,

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/reports/2009/9/01-btc/0826_btc_fullreport.pdf

This links is worthless.

First, they show no "cost curve to start with".

Next, they provide no projections on what their policy recommendations will do to the curve they didn't provide.

This one provides "a curve".

analysis & commentary How Health Care Reform Must Bend The Cost Curve

But then blathers on about how it "has to happen"....with an analysis of how it "could" potentially happen.

Always good to see articles from the Center from Progress Action Fund.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

MMS: Error

This one looks good.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Wow, what planet do you live on? Doctors and hospitals are very clearly saying they are no longer taking insurances they used to Before Obamacare.

That has always been the case.....right ?

Any examples that are "out of the oridinary" would be appreciated.

I have not heard of many.

Mainly, it's been that people can't get the insurance they want (coverage at cost).

 

[Greenbeard]

The last paragraph is part of what I was looking for.

Trust me, if you've never encountered the concept of bending the cost curve before (despite pretending to spend a lot looking for information about health care), you've got quite a bit of looking left to do.

Good luck with that.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The last paragraph is part of what I was looking for.

Trust me, if you've never encountered the concept of bending the cost curve before (despite pretending to spend a lot looking for information about health care), you've got quite a bit of looking left to do.

Good luck with that.

I've encountered it for as long as people have been blathering about it.

It's good to know what people are talking about as numbers.....

Information is very useful.

Digging it out of the propaganda is always a challenge.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Doctors are caught in the mess that you idiots have made of this. How? Because they have new patients who have signed up for ACA plans with high deductibles who don't have the financial wherewithal to pay those deductibles or in many cases don't continue to pay their premiums to the insurance companies resulting in their being dropped in coverage. Either way the doctor or hospital is SOL on ever seeing payment.

Doctors don't know or care what the patient's deductible is. Doctors treat patients. Their billing departments have wrestled with the vicissitudes of multiple insurers and their mountains of paperwork for decades.

Are you kidding? Doctors don't "care" about the ability of patients to pay for their treatment? How do you think doctors pay for the office space they occupy? The staff that supports them? Doctors are no different than any other profession in that if they don't have a positive cash flow they end up closing their doors.

 

[Arianrhod]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Doctors are caught in the mess that you idiots have made of this. How? Because they have new patients who have signed up for ACA plans with high deductibles who don't have the financial wherewithal to pay those deductibles or in many cases don't continue to pay their premiums to the insurance companies resulting in their being dropped in coverage. Either way the doctor or hospital is SOL on ever seeing payment.

Doctors don't know or care what the patient's deductible is. Doctors treat patients. Their billing departments have wrestled with the vicissitudes of multiple insurers and their mountains of paperwork for decades.

Are you kidding? Doctors don't "care" about the ability of patients to pay for their treatment? How do you think doctors pay for the office space they occupy? The staff that supports them? Doctors are no different than any other profession in that if they don't have a positive cash flow they end up closing their doors.

When you walk into your doctor's office, does he ask you for cash upfront? Doe he say "How will you be paying for this today?" Does he hand you a price list?

Because my doctor says "Hi, how are you feeling? Let's listen to your heart and take your blood pressure and..."

Do you have your "Obamacare" card in your wallet? Does it say "BRONZE PLAN - give this guy the cheap treatment!" on the front?

My doctor's receptionist asks what kind of insurance I have. She takes my card and photocopies it, puts the photocopy in my file, and gives me back the card. It says the name of my insurer, not "Obamacare," on it. It does not say "Bronze plan" or "Silver plan" or "Cadillac plan" on it.

If there's a co-pay, the billing department emails me and I pay the co-pay. The doctor doesn't know or care, as long as the billing department gives him a total from all his patients at the end of the month.

That's how adults manage these things on my planet. Maybe you should visit sometime.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Doctors are caught in the mess that you idiots have made of this. How? Because they have new patients who have signed up for ACA plans with high deductibles who don't have the financial wherewithal to pay those deductibles or in many cases don't continue to pay their premiums to the insurance companies resulting in their being dropped in coverage. Either way the doctor or hospital is SOL on ever seeing payment.

Doctors don't know or care what the patient's deductible is. Doctors treat patients. Their billing departments have wrestled with the vicissitudes of multiple insurers and their mountains of paperwork for decades.

Are you kidding? Doctors don't "care" about the ability of patients to pay for their treatment? How do you think doctors pay for the office space they occupy? The staff that supports them? Doctors are no different than any other profession in that if they don't have a positive cash flow they end up closing their doors.

When you walk into your doctor's office, does he ask you for cash upfront? Doe he say "How will you be paying for this today?" Does he hand you a price list?

Because my doctor says "Hi, how are you feeling? Let's listen to your heart and take your blood pressure and..."

Do you have your "Obamacare" card in your wallet? Does it say "BRONZE PLAN - give this guy the cheap treatment!" on the front?

My doctor's receptionist asks what kind of insurance I have. She takes my card and photocopies it, puts the photocopy in my file, and gives me back the card. It says the name of my insurer, not "Obamacare," on it. It does not say "Bronze plan" or "Silver plan" or "Cadillac plan" on it.

If there's a co-pay, the billing department emails me and I pay the co-pay. The doctor doesn't know or care, as long as the billing department gives him a total from all his patients at the end of the month.

That's how adults manage these things on my planet. Maybe you should visit sometime.

Here's reality on your "planet", Arian...

People have enrolled in the ACA and stopped paying their premiums. People have enrolled in the ACA and lied (quite often coerced into lying by the people working at the exchanges!) about their incomes so that they could get larger subsidies. Some people simply don't understand what a deductible IS because they've never had insurance before. They think someone else will be paying that. For all of these things...the doctor does not get him "a total from all his patients at the end of the month"! The doctor doesn't receive anything from a large percentage of their ACA patients because so many of them either are no longer covered by insurance or they don't have any intention of paying their deductible.

As for what that receptionist sees when she brings up your card? She sees exactly which plan you have. And if you think that doesn't affect the treatment you're given then you are incredibly naive.

 

[Arianrhod]

Here's reality on your "planet", Arian...

People have enrolled in the ACA…

Nope. People have enrolled in a plan with an insurer through the marketplace sites made available under the PPACA.

…stopped paying their premiums.

People who stop paying their premiums end up with no coverage – just as they did prior to the PPACA – and are billed the full amount.

People have enrolled in the ACA and lied. . . about their incomes so that they could get larger subsidies.

And of course no one ever lied about their income before. There are these amazing things called tax forms and credit checks that can be used to verify income.

Some people simply don't understand what a deductible IS because they've never had insurance before. They think someone else will be paying that.

See, now you’ve hit on the real problem. . .people who’ve been babied by their employers or their parents and don’t understand how health insurance works. I wonder if those same people don’t understand the deductible on their car insurance?

The doctor doesn't receive anything from a large percentage of their ACA patients because so many of them either are no longer covered by insurance or they don't have any intention of paying their deductible.

Don’t suppose you’d have any actual proof of that “large percentage”? Would it be any larger than those who refused to pay the deductible on their insurance before passage of the PPACA? Show your work.

As for what that receptionist sees when she brings up your card? She sees exactly which plan you have. And if you think that doesn't affect the treatment you're given then you are incredibly naive.

I’m looking at the card right now and it says “Blue Shield,” and my treatment continues to be as excellent as ever. Guess my doctor doesn’t have the Secret Paranoid RW Decoder Ring yours uses.

 

[Oldstyle]

Here's reality on your "planet", Arian...

People have enrolled in the ACA…

Nope. People have enrolled in a plan with an insurer through the marketplace sites made available under the PPACA.

…stopped paying their premiums.

People who stop paying their premiums end up with no coverage – just as they did prior to the PPACA – and are billed the full amount.

People have enrolled in the ACA and lied. . . about their incomes so that they could get larger subsidies.

And of course no one ever lied about their income before. There are these amazing things called tax forms and credit checks that can be used to verify income.

Some people simply don't understand what a deductible IS because they've never had insurance before. They think someone else will be paying that.

See, now you’ve hit on the real problem. . .people who’ve been babied by their employers or their parents and don’t understand how health insurance works. I wonder if those same people don’t understand the deductible on their car insurance?

The doctor doesn't receive anything from a large percentage of their ACA patients because so many of them either are no longer covered by insurance or they don't have any intention of paying their deductible.

Don’t suppose you’d have any actual proof of that “large percentage”? Would it be any larger than those who refused to pay the deductible on their insurance before passage of the PPACA? Show your work.

As for what that receptionist sees when she brings up your card? She sees exactly which plan you have. And if you think that doesn't affect the treatment you're given then you are incredibly naive.

I’m looking at the card right now and it says “Blue Shield,” and my treatment continues to be as excellent as ever. Guess my doctor doesn’t have the Secret Paranoid RW Decoder Ring yours uses.

Do you think that the billing person at your doctor only sees the information on your card? God, you're an idiot! When they pull up your insurance information from the numbers on that card...they know EXACTLY what plan you have!

 

[Oldstyle]

By the way, tax forms and credit checks are not used for income verification to qualify for ACA subsidies. I learned that the hard way because I sent in a copy of my W-2 for just that purpose only to be sent a letter back stating that W-2's for what I made LAST year are not what they require. Instead they want an "estimation" of what I think I will make for income in the coming year!

They have set this entire system up to fail. It's practically begging people to lie about their incomes because it's basically on the "honor system"!

 

[Arianrhod]

By the way, tax forms and credit checks are not used for income verification to qualify for ACA subsidies. I learned that the hard way because I sent in a copy of my W-2 for just that purpose only to be sent a letter back stating that W-2's for what I made LAST year are not what they require. Instead they want an "estimation" of what I think I will make for income in the coming year!

That's true. And unless you lose your job or get a much better job, odds are your income will not vary that much from the previous year.

I look forward to your answering all of the other points in my previous post. With facts.

 

[Oldstyle]

By the way, tax forms and credit checks are not used for income verification to qualify for ACA subsidies. I learned that the hard way because I sent in a copy of my W-2 for just that purpose only to be sent a letter back stating that W-2's for what I made LAST year are not what they require. Instead they want an "estimation" of what I think I will make for income in the coming year!

That's true. And unless you lose your job or get a much better job, odds are your income will not vary that much from the previous year.

I look forward to your answering all of the other points in my previous post. With facts.

My POINT, Arian is that income verification with the ACA is pretty much on the honor system! The IRS has already stated that they can't possibly check up on people's financial reporting for the ACA unless they are given a whole bunch more money. So what's preventing people from scamming the system?

And there are lots of people in this country who's income varies drastically from year to year. Mine does. That estimation of what I thought I might make this coming year was a total guess.

 

[Oldstyle]

As for your "points"? I'd be happy to address them...

"People who stop paying their premiums end up with no coverage – just as they did prior to the PPACA – and are billed the full amount."

So when someone who stopped paying their premiums because they don't have the money to do so are sent a huge bill in the mail for the full amount of their treatments at the doctor's office...do you REALLY think they pay THAT bill when they couldn't pay the much less expensive premiums? Duh? So the doctor sends out his bill...and hears nothing in return.

 

[Oldstyle]

Or this one?

"See, now you’ve hit on the real problem. . .people who’ve been babied by their employers or their parents and don’t understand how health insurance works. I wonder if those same people don’t understand the deductible on their car insurance?"

You've got millions of poor people signing up for "bronze" plans through the ACA that can't even come close to paying their large deductibles. So if you're a doctor you'll get the difference from that person's insurance plan but you're SOL as far as that deductible is concerned because they've never intended to pay the deductible.

 

[Oldstyle]

Or this...

"Don’t suppose you’d have any actual proof of that “large percentage”? Would it be any larger than those who refused to pay the deductible on their insurance before passage of the PPACA? Show your work."

I have no idea where you would get a hard number on that, Arian! Common sense however tells me that it will be much higher than before the passage of the ACA because so many of the clientele that they will now be dealing with could care less about their credit rating.