The Biggest Lie wasn't "Like your doctor, keep your doctor".

[Roudy]

Going to the doctor is not fun. I just do it because it;s necessary

Agreed on both counts. What's even less fun is having to go to the doctor and having him run a slew of tests you can't afford. Worse is being diagnosed with something that will be expensive to treat and not being able to afford that. The PPACA makes it possible for more people afford to (A) see a doctor and be screened for common conditions and (B) pay for any treatment they need.

I personally experienced my premiums going up and many hospitals and doctors refusing my health care plan.

If your premiums have gone up, you need to contact your insurer and find out why. if they can't or won't answer you, you need to find another insurer.

As for "many hospitals and doctors" refusing your health care plan, that's also a function of the insurer. Have you asked them why? When you say "many," how many are you talking about?

You honestly need to ASK why premiums are going up for those not getting large subsidies?

I didn't ask. I said the solution was often to either change insurers or change tiers within an insurer. People who've never had to shop for their own insurance before are often not clear on what their options are.

The very fact that some here post things like "Obamacare doesn't work...my doctor won't accept it...I've got it but I get the cheap stuff" suggests they still think it's an insurance company.

Others are somewhat better informed, but unable or unwilling to look for alternatives to their current insurer.

You're pointing your fingers at everybody but the entity that broke the US health care system and created the mess we're in...radical leftists and the Obama administration!

 

[Roudy]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Wow, what planet do you live on? Doctors and hospitals are very clearly saying they are no longer taking insurances they used to Before Obamacare.

 

[Arianrhod]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Wow, what planet do you live on? Doctors and hospitals are very clearly saying they are no longer taking insurances they used to Before Obamacare.

Something that widespread would be national news.

 

[Roudy]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Wow, what planet do you live on? Doctors and hospitals are very clearly saying they are no longer taking insurances they used to Before Obamacare.

Something that widespread would be national news.

Yes, but unfortunately our news isn't really the "national news" any longer. It's been the propaganda arm of the Democrat party for a few decades now.

 

[Oldstyle]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Doctors are caught in the mess that you idiots have made of this. How? Because they have new patients who have signed up for ACA plans with high deductibles who don't have the financial wherewithal to pay those deductibles or in many cases don't continue to pay their premiums to the insurance companies resulting in their being dropped in coverage. Either way the doctor or hospital is SOL on ever seeing payment.

 

[Roudy]

What the fascist in chief doesn't realize is doctors and hospitals DON'T HAVE TO take certain patients and / or make less money just because the govt. says passes an irresponsible bill.

And another of his unconstitutional executive actions won't make them either.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

What the fascist in chief doesn't realize is doctors and hospitals DON'T HAVE TO take certain patients and / or make less money just because the govt. says passes an irresponsible bill.

And another of his unconstitutional executive actions won't make them either.

Can you detail this out a little better ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

I'm curious, Greenbeard...do you honestly think that premiums for healthcare insurance are going to go down for the Middle Class? I'm seeing people without subsidies having to sign up for plans with higher deductibles and less care in order to be able to afford the higher rates that insurance companies are now starting to hit them with.

Premiums are almost certainly never going to do down. Unless wages in the health sector (in which a lot of people are employed) go down first, or a lot of people in that sector get abruptly laid off.

The goal long term has to be to slow cost growth, get overall spending and premium growth in line with, and perhaps ultimately below, economic and wage growth.

There are two approaches to achieving that, perhaps incoherently, being tried at the same time. One promotes a more cohesive health care delivery system that eliminates much of the waste and duplication that has plagued the system for decades. The other promotes a market approach--which, yes, involves higher deductibles--to persuade people to be price sensitive in choosing services. I honestly don't know which approach is better, but they're both happening right now.

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

 

[Arianrhod]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Wow, what planet do you live on? Doctors and hospitals are very clearly saying they are no longer taking insurances they used to Before Obamacare.

Something that widespread would be national news.

Yes, but unfortunately our news isn't really the "national news" any longer. It's been the propaganda arm of the Democrat party for a few decades now.

Whereas in my country it's corporate-owned and functions as "infotainment."

 

[Arianrhod]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

 

[Arianrhod]

Ah, so your answer is to change tiers? You're kidding right? That means that the Middle Class will have "bronze" plans with huge deductibles and only go to the doctors in case of an emergency.

Just the opposite. A lot of inexperienced consumers jumped at the bronze plans without looking at (or perhaps even understanding) the concomitant high deductibles.

Next time around some of them will be a little more selective.

Those who've had their employer do the research and the paperwork in the past now have to learn about the options themselves.

You haven't figured it out yet have you...there are going to be doctors and hospitals who DON'T accept ObamaCare and those doctors and hospitals will be full of the wealthy who can afford private and expensive plans. The hospitals that DO accept ObamaCare will have waiting lines to get care as the poor take full advantage of their highly subsidized healthcare plans. The Middle Class? They are going to be caught in the middle.

Don't accept which insurers? Your insurance ID card has the name of your insurer on it. It doesn't say "ObamaCare" on it. Your doctor doesn't know or care whether you got your Aetna or Blue Shield or whatever policy through the marketplaces or esurance or a private broker or through the insurer themselves.

"My doctor won't accept ObamaCare" is one of the sillier myths out of all the mythology surrounding this legislation.

Doctors are caught in the mess that you idiots have made of this. How? Because they have new patients who have signed up for ACA plans with high deductibles who don't have the financial wherewithal to pay those deductibles or in many cases don't continue to pay their premiums to the insurance companies resulting in their being dropped in coverage. Either way the doctor or hospital is SOL on ever seeing payment.

Doctors don't know or care what the patient's deductible is. Doctors treat patients. Their billing departments have wrestled with the vicissitudes of multiple insurers and their mountains of paperwork for decades.

 

[Kosh]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You far left drones to do not post real facts you post far left religious dogma that you believe are facts, but do not come close to reality..

 

[Arianrhod]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You far left drones to do not post real facts you post far left religious dogma that you believe are facts, but do not come close to reality..

English.

 

[Kosh]

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You far left drones to do not post real facts you post far left religious dogma that you believe are facts, but do not come close to reality..

English.

Learn it and then you will understand!

I have not yet mastered far left drone religious dogma speak as you have!

 

[Arianrhod]

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You far left drones to do not post real facts you post far left religious dogma that you believe are facts, but do not come close to reality..

English.

Learn it and then you will understand!

I have not yet mastered far left drone religious dogma speak as you have!

What is your question/comment about the PPACA? Or will you continue to drone?

 

[Kosh]

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You far left drones to do not post real facts you post far left religious dogma that you believe are facts, but do not come close to reality..

English.

Learn it and then you will understand!

I have not yet mastered far left drone religious dogma speak as you have!

What is your question/comment about the PPACA? Or will you continue to drone?

Pointing out that you far left drones do not post facts!

Any real facts you want to post? or will you coniine to post far left drone religious dogma?

 

[Greenbeard]

Can you point to where that was said as this bill was being discussed ?

Slow cost growth ?

Just what does that look like ? Basic definitions please.

This is a fundamental concept ("bending the cost curve") in health policy and one of the primary reasons for reform in the first place.

Here's The Commonwealth Fund in 2007: Bending the Curve: Options for Achieving Savings and Improving Value in U.S. Health Spending. Here's Brookings in 2009: Effective Steps to Address Long-Term Health Care Spending Growth.

The concept was discussed at the Senate Finance roundtables on health reform convened by Max Baucus in 2008/09 that culminated in the ACA.

Here's David Cutler, Obama's chief health policy advisor during the '08 campaign, in 2009: Why Health Reform Will Bend the Cost Curve. Here he is again in 2010: How Health Care Reform Must Bend the Cost Curve.

Here's Obama himself in 2009:

After meeting with Senate Democrats on Dec. 15, President Barack Obama made a number of claims about what the health care bill would achieve if passed.

"We agree on reforms that will finally reduce the costs of health care," Obama said. "Families will save on their premiums; businesses that will see their costs rise if we do nothing will save money now and in the future. This plan will strengthen Medicare and extend the life of that program. And because it gets rid of the waste and inefficiencies in our health care system, this will be the largest deficit reduction plan in over a decade.

"Now, I just want to repeat this because there's so much misinformation about the cost issue here. You talk to every health care economist out there and they will tell you that whatever ideas are -- whatever ideas exist in terms of bending the cost curve and starting to reduce costs for families, businesses, and government, those elements are in this bill."

Here's Peter Orszag (CBO head, then OMB head, but always health wonk) with Zeke Emanuel (another advisor for the administration) in 2010 discussing the ACA and bending of the cost curve: Health Care Reform and Cost Control.

This is not a new concept. In fact it's a foundational concept for any discussion of this subject.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You can't answer the question.....Oh, well.

 

[Arianrhod]

^Any data to back your opinion?

You want "data" to back up an opinion that the ACA DIDN'T save the average Middle Class family an average of $2,500 a year as promised by Barack Obama?

Do you seriously not know that the ACA has raised healthcare costs for the average Middle Class family? That was a deliberate falsehood told by progressives.

There are plenty of data in this forum showing that millions more Americans have access to affordable health insurance than did before.

There are plenty of polls indicating satisfaction with the PPACA.

All y'all seem to have is "HE LIED!!!!11"

I am not sure how that is relevant to the conversation.

You prefer uninformed opinion to hard facts? Oh, well.

You can't answer the question.....Oh, well.

You don't like Greenbeard's answer?