The American problem? Our "poor" have it too easy.

[bucs90]

Mexico being a craphole and us not being a craphole caused illegal immigration. Why we haven't sealed the border is a combination of special interests and politics.


BUT I'll say this: Illegal immigration is a PERFECT example of how to back up my original premise.

A Mexican sees an American in poverty as "rich" compared to being in Mexican poverty. A Mexican who flees here is CHOOSING to attempt to no longer be poor in Mexico. It's risky, but he is CHOOSING to stop being a poor Mexican, and CHOOSING to attempt to be a poor American (which is rich in comparison to a poor Mexican). And when our "poor" choose to stop being poor in America, they too will take drastic measures to improve their lot.

But right now, being poor in America is too comfortable for that.

I see where you are going with this...make our poor as bad as Mexico's poor and illegal immigration stops. Ah Ha!

Nah, I'd say make our poor as "motivated" as Mexican immigrants are, and our nation would thrive beyond our wildest dreams.

But we have an army of welfare queens sucking at the system. Until our poor get motivated, they'll never thrive. And they'll never CHOOSE to get motivated if we keep making poverty more comfortable for them.

I know, I know, the reality of that sucks. But it's true.

 

[CountofTuscany]

Where do you people get the idea that you are owed anything in life. I don't. I was raised to provide for myself. When push comes to shove, there is no one else I can look to for providing for my needs other than myself. Certainly not a government. I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable because I understand how the world works. If I want or need something, I have to do what it takes to obtain that want or need. I don't expect some truck to roll around and just hand it to me. Life is about choices. Always has been and always will be. I've been to other countries. I've seen real poverty in nations that have no middle class and no opportunity. It is totally different in the US. The means are there for anyone choosing to rise above their current state of affairs. In addition to the handout social programs, there are many handup social programs. Guess which one is the easier route to choose? The handout. You get something for nothing. The handup programs require you to put forth some effort to pull yourself out of poverty. Some people choose this route. Many don't. They CHOOSE to remain in the condtion they are in because they are lazy and it is easy. Are there people in real need in this country that we have a moral obligation to assist? Of course there is, but they are a small minority in comparison to the many who just want to exist off the gubmint teat. Why is that so hard to admit? Can't never did anything and too many of these people claim they "can't" get ahead.....when in reality, they "won't" take advantage of the programs that could lead them out of their poverty.

Absolutely, we created an atmosphere of entitlement. It didn't exist before we created social programs. Every group that immigrated prior to these programs came over to work and that's what built this nation.

 

[bucs90]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

If you're arguing that some parents suck, well yes, I agree. Too bad morality in our country has tanked over the last 30 years.

But these poor kids do in fact have options. They get a free education for one. If they have a motivated teacher (aka, a non-union non-tenure teacher) then they can learn there even despite shitty parents.

But yes, some people have tougher roads than other. But nowhere on Earth is the "poor" class of a nation so set up with a chance at success as ours. Poor Kenyans, or Chinese, or Brazillians, would DREAM of growing up as a poor American with all the opportunities here.

And ours do have a safety net, a great one. Welfare, food stamps, ER care, Medicare, Section-8 housing, etc, etc. They're obese for Gods sake.

 

[bucs90]

Just reading over this thread...........one of my best. I'd rep myself if I could.

 

[CountofTuscany]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

I never had anything handed to me. Never had a family job to go to. Paid my own way through school and paid off the loans. My folks never graduated HS. Dad went off to the war, mom left school at 15 to work. They were blue collar all the way. College was a luxury for the rich. Their expectations were I'd get a job at the mill, like everyone else. You have to make your own decisions even when you get no guidance.

 

[rhodescholar]

This is the root of why we are struggling. The poor have it too easy. We have a massive class of people that are purely dependent on others to get by. Here is how.....

If our poor knew education was the key to survival, they'd be flocking the free libraries to get a better education than what our failed schools are giving. And using the free internet. But they aren't. They would also stop spending money on high-priced shoes, rims for their cars, expensive cars in general, video games, plasma tv's........and of course drugs. What a "poor" person in America spends on cable tv, a tv, rims, a cell phone, clothes, could buy a semester at community college. But priorities aren't there. Because they KNOW the gov't will not let them starve or die.

If our poor were truly starving, they'd be desperate to learn how to plant and grow their own food. But they aren't. Not only are they not finding ways to create their own food, but they are taking in so many excess calories that they are obsese. Like most of America. They do not need to worry about how to grow or find food, they know food stamps are always gonna be there. Otherwise, we'd see protests in the ghettos demanding the gov't allow some parks to be used as food growing land for them.

Our "poor" live a life that is rich compared the 95% of the other humans on planet Earth. The reason we have class warfare is envy, not necessity. Our poor have it too easy. If it was a necessity, they'd strive for their own education. They'd find ways to grow their own food, start their own businesses, find their own housing. Necessity creates quite a bit of innovation and efficiency.

But our "poor" know this.....they will be taken care of. They use the ER as a personal doctor. They get food stamps. They get $50 a month subsidized apartments. They get welfare. They get free education, soon to get free wireless internet. Hell, Jesse Jackson Jr. just said he wants a Constitutional amendment that guarantees people in the ghetto a "right to an Ipad and Ipod".

They know that we the people will keep finding a way to keep them alive and living a relatively easy life. So then it becomes that their only gripe is that what we are giving them is not as nice or fancy as what the rest of us have earned. They're spoiled brats. Their free apartment isn't as nice as the one I bought, and they're pissed. The food their food stamps buy is not as good as the food I worked for to buy, and they're pissed. The free welfare money they got is not enough to buy the same car I did with the money I earned and they demand that be changed immediately.

And then you have what I call the "Poor College Grad". He's the guy that all through college took "Diversity 101" or "Cultural Studies". He was in all the socially cool clubs. Wore the Che t-shirts. Hated Bush of course. Meanwhile, he was doing little to secure his financial future, learn to invest, learning to start a business. Instead, he decided to become more worldly, and less practical, only to become a whiny, pissed off 27 year old college grad who is pissed that his brilliance in the world of sociology could only get him a job cooking for Noodles.

And thats the problem we have in America right now.

There are 2 massive, massive groups of poor and working poor that are draining the US of resources, minority inner-city blacks and hispanics, and the mass volume of illegals from Mexico, china, and south america, legal immigrants from protectorates like puerto rico, etc.

NYC, which has large numbers of each of those groups, spends many BILLIONS per year on welfare, schools, medicaid and other programs for the poor. IMHO, this is a method by which the government has bought them off so as to maintain "social stability." There have been few, if any, social riots since the 60s, and this massive transfer of wealth from the middle and upper class has only heightened the volume of illegals flying in to the country, and kept the poor minorities from improving themselves - why do so when so much is handed to you by the state?

 

[bodecea]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

If you're arguing that some parents suck, well yes, I agree. Too bad morality in our country has tanked over the last 30 years.

But these poor kids do in fact have options. They get a free education for one. If they have a motivated teacher (aka, a non-union non-tenure teacher) then they can learn there even despite shitty parents.

But yes, some people have tougher roads than other. But nowhere on Earth is the "poor" class of a nation so set up with a chance at success as ours. Poor Kenyans, or Chinese, or Brazillians, would DREAM of growing up as a poor American with all the opportunities here.

And ours do have a safety net, a great one. Welfare, food stamps, ER care, Medicare, Section-8 housing, etc, etc. They're obese for Gods sake.

What Morality would that be? The morality to segregate races? The morality to pay women less than men doing the same job? The morality to lock gays in asylums? The morality to polute lakes to the point they catch on fire?

That morality?

 

[bucs90]

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

If you're arguing that some parents suck, well yes, I agree. Too bad morality in our country has tanked over the last 30 years.

But these poor kids do in fact have options. They get a free education for one. If they have a motivated teacher (aka, a non-union non-tenure teacher) then they can learn there even despite shitty parents.

But yes, some people have tougher roads than other. But nowhere on Earth is the "poor" class of a nation so set up with a chance at success as ours. Poor Kenyans, or Chinese, or Brazillians, would DREAM of growing up as a poor American with all the opportunities here.

And ours do have a safety net, a great one. Welfare, food stamps, ER care, Medicare, Section-8 housing, etc, etc. They're obese for Gods sake.

What Morality would that be? The morality to segregate races? The morality to pay women less than men doing the same job? The morality to lock gays in asylums? The morality to polute lakes to the point they catch on fire?

That morality?

Ah, changing topic, nice try. But I'm in the zone today.

The morality that parents in America once had where they gave a crap about their kids. Where it was frowned upon, not celebrated, to get knocked up out of wedlock. The morality where it was embarrassing when a person's child became a crappy adult.

You know, since we're on the "some have a tougher road" subject. Morality once helped those on the tougher road because more parents gave a damn about raising a respectable child.

 

[kwc57]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Education and training free of charge.

Welcome to Job Corps

Job Corps is a free education and training program that helps young people learn a career, earn a high school diploma or GED, and find and keep a good job. For eligible young people at least 16 years of age that qualify as low income, Job Corps provides the all-around skills needed to succeed in a career and in life.

If you or someone you know is interested in joining Job Corps, call (800) 733-JOBS or (800) 733-5627 where an operator will provide you with general information about Job Corps, refer you to the admissions counselor closest to where you live, and mail you an information packet.

Job Corps: Center Locations

Tell me why any able bodied person on welfare would turn their nose up at this other than they choose to remain in the state they are in because they find it easier than working and believe they are entitled to something for nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

I never had anything handed to me. Never had a family job to go to. Paid my own way through school and paid off the loans. My folks never graduated HS. Dad went off to the war, mom left school at 15 to work. They were blue collar all the way. College was a luxury for the rich. Their expectations were I'd get a job at the mill, like everyone else. You have to make your own decisions even when you get no guidance.

I, for one, am very proud of you

 

[bucs90]

^^You evil corporatist. How dare you expect a man to learn to fish. You will give him all the fish he needs out of your catch!!!

 

[rhodescholar]

And here we have a Compassionate Conservative, folks. Take a good look.

And here we have a trolling fucking scumbag soiling every thread it lands in. If there was ever a piece of shit to be banned from here, you are it.

 

[CountofTuscany]

Just reading over this thread...........one of my best. I'd rep myself if I could.

I'll lay one on you

 

[Claudette]

Where do you people get the idea that you are owed anything in life. I don't. I was raised to provide for myself. When push comes to shove, there is no one else I can look to for providing for my needs other than myself. Certainly not a government. I'm not rich, but I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable because I understand how the world works. If I want or need something, I have to do what it takes to obtain that want or need. I don't expect some truck to roll around and just hand it to me. Life is about choices. Always has been and always will be. I've been to other countries. I've seen real poverty in nations that have no middle class and no opportunity. It is totally different in the US. The means are there for anyone choosing to rise above their current state of affairs. In addition to the handout social programs, there are many handup social programs. Guess which one is the easier route to choose? The handout. You get something for nothing. The handup programs require you to put forth some effort to pull yourself out of poverty. Some people choose this route. Many don't. They CHOOSE to remain in the condtion they are in because they are lazy and it is easy. Are there people in real need in this country that we have a moral obligation to assist? Of course there is, but they are a small minority in comparison to the many who just want to exist off the gubmint teat. Why is that so hard to admit? Can't never did anything and too many of these people claim they "can't" get ahead.....when in reality, they "won't" take advantage of the programs that could lead them out of their poverty.

Absolutely, we created an atmosphere of entitlement. It didn't exist before we created social programs. Every group that immigrated prior to these programs came over to work and that's what built this nation.

You got that right. It is what built this nation.

Back in the day nobody stood around waiting for someone to take care of them. They took care of themselves. People worked and worked hard. They earned a living. Payed their bills and nobody lived on credit.

Today was have an entire generation or two of folks who think the Govt is her to take care of them. They see nothing wrong in having illegitimate kids and living their lives on Welfare. They have no skin in the game. Someone else is providing all that they need so why change it??

These folks have absolutely no incentive to change the way they live. None at all. Why go out an earn a living when its being handed to you free of charge??

How long can the productive continue to carry the non-productive??

 

[bucs90]

Whats worse than the problem is the stigma attached to anyone who dares speak about the problem we have with epedimic laziness.

 

[rightwinger]

Bottom line is if you are poor in America, it's because you made decisions to get there, or have made decisions to stay there. There is not evidence to disprove that.

We are all a product of the decisions we make. The poor probably make worse decisions than the rest of us. They also have a non-existent support structure to help them make the right decisions and lack a safety net for when they make a wrong decision.

Many of us can point to a bad decision we have made in our life. If you are poor, the consequences of that decision is magnified. Daddy is not there to make it all better. There is no uncle who owns a business and offers you a job. You have no place to go to get a loan and nobody is offering you any financial backing.

It is a tough road to travel and not everyone makes it

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

Education and training free of charge.

Welcome to Job Corps

Job Corps is a free education and training program that helps young people learn a career, earn a high school diploma or GED, and find and keep a good job. For eligible young people at least 16 years of age that qualify as low income, Job Corps provides the all-around skills needed to succeed in a career and in life.

If you or someone you know is interested in joining Job Corps, call (800) 733-JOBS or (800) 733-5627 where an operator will provide you with general information about Job Corps, refer you to the admissions counselor closest to where you live, and mail you an information packet.

Job Corps: Center Locations

Tell me why any able bodied person on welfare would turn their nose up at this other than they choose to remain in the state they are in because they find it easier than working and believe they are entitled to something for nothing.

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach him how to fish and he will sit
in a boat and drink beer all day.

 

[High_Gravity]

Why do you hate poor people so much?

 

[Jarhead]

Why do you hate poor people so much?

I dont hate them....I dont pity them, I dont look down on them. I help them help themselves when they want to help themselves.
However, I despise those that put them on some sort of "pity pedestal"

 

[High_Gravity]

Why do you hate poor people so much?

I dont hate them....I dont pity them, I dont look down on them. I help them help themselves when they want to help themselves.
However, I despise those that put them on some sort of "pity pedestal"

The poor people that just want people to give them things and don't want to work for it kill me.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Kinda funny.

Stossle interviewed a woman that had been on welfare her whole life. she would drop her kids off as paid for by us daycare then spend the day at the beach. When workfare came along, much of the ended. She needed work and education.

Turns out she's now a published author living a better life than she had before.

But hey, fuck that, children went hungry!!, uhm wait, there were no hungry children.

funny how libs support a failed system, constantly.

And all our poor are JUST LIKE HER.

Same chance, same opportunity. Except many of them were not single mothers, so I'd say she had a tougher row to hoe to become a success.

You strike me as someone that only knows what it's like to be poor from rap videos.
You have no idea how many people work under the table to keep benefits, how many pay $25/month for a 3 bedroom house with a small yard, how many get damn near everything free or at such a low cost that it beats working your way up any day of the week.

You are defending welfare even though you do the poor a great disservice. Welfare is shackles that keep people poor and dependant on the government.

I wish you could see what I see.