That WAS The Democratic and Repubican Party

[struth]

That's not a right you're born with it's a feature of human biology that you have independent thoughts and actions.

hahah yes, you are born with independent thoughts and actions.....biology, agreed.

 

[Curried Goats]

hahah yes, you are born with independent thoughts and actions.....biology, agreed.

Which isn't the same thing as a right. It's called a right because when one of these legal rights are violated you have a right to justice. No such right exists in nature. If you were robbed or assaulted by someone in nature you're just shit out of luck.

 

[struth]

Which isn't the same thing as a right. It's called a right because when one of these legal rights are violated you have a right to justice. No such right exists in nature. If you were robbed or assaulted by someone in nature you're just shit out of luck.

Sure it did, self-defense for example, existed prior to any Govt said it existed. Not sure where you got the idea Govt gave you that right. You have the right to exist, Govt didn't give you that.

 

[Curried Goats]

Sure it did, self-defense for example, existed prior to any Govt said it existed. Not sure where you got the idea Govt gave you that right. You have the right to exist, Govt didn't give you that.

You either do exist or you don't exist. A right to exist is superfluous without society supporting it with the force of law.

 

[struth]

You either do exist or you don't exist. A right to exist is superfluous without society supporting it with the force of law.

And you have a right to exist, ie defend yourself if need be.

Humans can create laws, we do that through creating govt.

Since we create laws and govt, govt doesn’t give us rights

 

[Red Front]

Yes I get leftist believe people aren’t born free.

You are the one talking about Mother Nature. Not me. I have simply said we are born with them. Jefferson believed they came from a God, I don’t disagree with him

Why didn't you have the courage to tell me it was God who granted us all our rights? Are you ashamed of the living God? I'm a Marxist-Leninist i.e. communist, and I believe in God. I don't have to agree 100% with Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin to ally myself with them when it comes to economics and how society at a national scale, should be organized.

The first Christians under the leadership of Christ's 12 apostles were communists.

Act 2:42-47 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (43) And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. (44) And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (45) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (46) And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, (47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Act 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (33) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. (34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (36) And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

ABOVE YOU JUST READ, "THE MULTITUDE OF THEM WHO BELIEVED WERE OF ONE HEART, AND OF ONE SOUL" (THE RESULT OF BEING ONE-UNITED WITH YOUR BRETHREN IS GREAT POWER AND GRACE).......JESUS SAID, "PERFECT IN ONE" THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE...."THAT THEY MAY BE PERFECT IN ONE":

Joh 17:21-23 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Mat_5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

WHERE THERE ARE TWO OR THREE TOGETHER (AS ONE BODY), IN MY NAME, I AM THERE WITH THEM:

Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Mat 19:27-30 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? (28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (29) And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. (30) But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

Mat 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (42) For I was hungry and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: (43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? (45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. (46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Isa 58:5-11 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to YHWH? (6) Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? (7) Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? (8) Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of YHWH shall be thy rereward. (9) Then shalt thou call, and YHWH shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; (10) And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: (11) And YHWH shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

Joh 13:33-35 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. (34) A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (35) By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

HOW DID JESUS LOVE US? LIKE THIS:

HE GAVE HIS LIFE. WE MUST DO THE SAME. WE MUST LOVE OUR BRETHREN AS HE LOVED US, LAYING IT ALL DOWN BEFORE THE FOOT OF THE CROSS (BEFORE THE BODY OF CHRIST). THE FIRST CHRISTIANS DID THAT BY HOLDING ALL THINGS IN COMMON.

Act 4:32-37 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Act 4:37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

TO BE A DISCIPLE OF JESUS CHRIST, JESUS DEMANDS YOUR LIFE, EVERYTHING YOU HAVE.

Luk 9:23-26 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (24) For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. (25) For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? (26) For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh_14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


THE REASON THE CHURCH TODAY LACKS GREAT POWER AND GREAT GRACE IS DUE TO NOT KEEPING THE COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS. THE FIRST CHRISTIANS WERE FAITHFUL, GIVING UP THEIR LIVES FOR HIM AND FOR EACH OTHER. WE DON'T DO THAT ANYMORE, HENCE THE CHURCH HAS BECOME A CIRCUS FULL OF CLOWNS, WHO REFUSE TO PICK UP THEIR CROSSES AND FOLLOW JESUS IN THE WAY HE INSTRUCTED.

​

 

[Red Front]

Yes I get leftist believe people aren’t born free.

You are the one talking about Mother Nature. Not me. I have simply said we are born with them. Jefferson believed they came from a God, I don’t disagree with him

No, we are born under the rule of Satan, until we are born again in Christ. This world is under the spell of the wicked one. A demonic world, full of demons:

Demons are real. The devil exists. If that's the case, God and His angels exist too.​

 

[Curried Goats]

And you have a right to exist, ie defend yourself if need be.

No... you do exist and you may or may not have the ability to defend yourself. That's not a right, that's ability. Having a legal right to not have your life taken or property stolen means that even if your abilities fail you society and government will still seek justice on behalf of you and your family. In nature, if you fashion an axe and chop some wood and use that wood to build a home for you and your family and then someone comes by and murders you and your family that house is now theirs and no one is coming to avenge you. In a society with legal rights they don't get to profit from their villainy or live without the fear of the law catching up to them. That's the utility of legal rights. I don't yet understand the utility of natural rights when in nature people can murder you without consequence.

Humans can create laws, we do that through creating govt.

Since we create laws and govt, govt doesn’t give us rights

It does. It gives you legal rights and they're superior to natural rights which is why you live in a society protected by a government rather than out in the wild with thee assurances of nature.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Progressives have gone full Commie and believe only government gives you any reason to live. The unfortunate part is that they are genetically unable to leave the rest of us alone. It won’t end well

 

[Curried Goats]

Progressives have gone full Commie and believe only government gives you any reason to live. The unfortunate part is that they are genetically unable to leave the rest of us alone. It won’t end well

You've gone fully emotional and can't make rational arguments. My reasons to live have nothing to do with government. My family is the most important thing in my life and my reason for everything. Government is what gives me and my family legal protections, so long as we can maintain it.

 

[Red Front]

Progressives have gone full Commie and believe only government gives you any reason to live. The unfortunate part is that they are genetically unable to leave the rest of us alone. It won’t end well

God, his angels, Jesus, and His apostles, are all "full commie". God's angels don't capitalize on each other's needs. One could just as well respond to your rhetoric, that you believe only money, or the marketplace, gives you any reason to live. Progressives aren't communists, they're pro-capitalism. If you object then you've just made all of Western Europe, Japan, and several other industrialized nations around the world, "full commie".

These nations take for granted all of those policies that you consider "commie". They consider healthcare, education, food, housing..etc, a human right. Everyone in these modern, industrialized countries, have healthcare that is free at the point of service and tuition-free college, among many other entitlements. These governments recognize the right of employees to unionize and protect them against employers who threaten their jobs for doing so. You've just made much of the industrialized, modern world "commie", with your silly rhetoric. Well, I as a "commie" thank you for doing that. Thanks.

 

[struth]

No... you do exist and you may or may not have the ability to defend yourself. That's not a right, that's ability. Having a legal right to not have your life taken or property stolen means that even if your abilities fail you society and government will still seek justice on behalf of you and your family. In nature, if you fashion an axe and chop some wood and use that wood to build a home for you and your family and then someone comes by and murders you and your family that house is now theirs and no one is coming to avenge you. In a society with legal rights they don't get to profit from their villainy or live without the fear of the law catching up to them. That's the utility of legal rights. I don't yet understand the utility of natural rights when in nature people can murder you without consequence.

It does. It gives you legal rights and they're superior to natural rights which is why you live in a society protected by a government rather than out in the wild with thee assurances of nature.

Yeah you might not succeed in defending yourself…what’s your point? Doesn’t mean you don’t have tit right to try and defending yourself

 

[Curried Goats]

Yeah you might not succeed in defending yourself…what’s your point? Doesn’t mean you don’t have tit right to try and defending yourself

My point is that natural rights don't seem to have any utility. You can't see them, hear them, touch them, interact with them in any way and they do absolutely nothing for you that you can describe so why should I believe they really even exist? Your biology gives you some ability to defend yourself but if you get murdered or eaten by another predator in nature then your biological abilities weren't up to the challenge. At what point in all this do natural rights serve a purpose?

 

[Red Front]

Nature doesn't give anyone rights. That's not its role or purpose. God or a human community, an earthly government grants and protects rights.

 

[struth]

My point is that natural rights don't seem to have any utility. You can't see them, hear them, touch them, interact with them in any way and they do absolutely nothing for you that you can describe so why should I believe they really even exist? Your biology gives you some ability to defend yourself but if you get murdered or eaten by another predator in nature then your biological abilities weren't up to the challenge. At what point in all this do natural rights serve a purpose?

sure they do, we have the united states for example, because our founders believed in natural rights.

 

[Curried Goats]

sure they do, we have the united states for example, because our founders believed in natural rights.

You can believe in something that doesn't make it true. Jews build temples Muslims build mosques, Buddhists build shrines, rastas build tabernacles, are all these beliefs factually correct? We build football stadiums and that's a game we invented. Just because you build a government around the idea of natural rights doesn't mean they're real.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You can believe in something that doesn't make it true. Jews build temples Muslims build mosques, Buddhists build shrines, rastas build tabernacles, are all these beliefs factually correct? We build football stadiums and that's a game we invented. Just because you build a government around the idea of natural rights doesn't mean they're real.

Only government is real, everything else is an opiate to keep the masses confused and docile, Komrade

 

[struth]

You can believe in something that doesn't make it true. Jews build temples Muslims build mosques, Buddhists build shrines, rastas build tabernacles, are all these beliefs factually correct? We build football stadiums and that's a game we invented. Just because you build a government around the idea of natural rights doesn't mean they're real.

hey, you are free to believe you weren't born free....nobody is making you believe that you are free.

 

[Curried Goats]

Only government is real, everything else is an opiate to keep the masses confused and docile, Komrade

When you're done having this emotional moment try an argument that isn't a strawman.

 

[Curried Goats]

hey, you are free to believe you weren't born free....nobody is making you believe that you are free.

That's not really an argument. That sounds like you conceding that you can't describe to me the utility of natural rights.