Teabaggers exposed. No REAL opposition to overreaching government

[L.K.Eder]

The TP claims to be patriots. They scream bloody murder that having to buy health insurance (which all of them already do) is an attack on their freedom

Here we have a direct violation of the fourth amendment. US citizens being stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance. Where is the TP?

Problem being that nobody is being stopped merely to show ID.

Tell ya what...Next time you get pulled over for having a tail light out and get asked for license, registration and insurance, you scream bloody murder about your civil rights and call the cop a fascist, m'kay?

like this

or this

or this

or this

or this

or this?

 

[Samson]

Gee, yet another poster who is incapable of posting in the right forum.


I am shocked!


Oh wait.... it's VaYank.... no, I'm not shocked. Va is a moron who is incapable of individual thought - and, apparently, posting in the right forum.

Some Liberal Professor needs to conduct a poll for Newsweek to find out why Anti-Tea Party Message Board Posters might not want to start threads about the Tea Party in the Tea Party Forum.

 

[editec]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

 

[Oddball]

The differencve twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anit-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHJATEVER to do with intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding on, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT apprive of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Guys like me say they're both authoritarian, if you really wanna split hairs.

 

[Oddball]

"Small government" means out of everything except one's bedroom, uterus, marital preference, internet, telephone records, library records (at least that was stopped, no thanks to small govt. folks), comings and goings, and FACE.

Meanwhile, business is sacrosanct, and the hands off attitude towards the malfeasance of the lending and financial industries are just one example.

RAARRRRRRRRR!!!

Not at all. Everything I posted is a tenet of the majority of the right, including support for intrusive "security measures," and there has not been a single tea bag protest against the AZ law or republican obstructionism concerning regulation of the financial industry, particularly the latest Goldman Sachs scandal. Not. A. Single. One.

Maybe the repubs are obstructing financial regulation for reasons other than you arbitrarily imagined.

As far as the AZ law is concerned, the added state law is to enforce federal regulations on the books that are being ignored. Maybe the key to having fewer laws and regulations is to fully enforce the ones you already have, eh?

So, which way do you want it here?...P.S. You don't get it both ways either.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Arizona's draconian new immigration law is an abomination -- racist, arbitrary, oppressive, mean-spirited, unjust. About the only hopeful thing that can be said is that the legislation, which Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed Friday, goes so outrageously far that it may well be unconstitutional.

Brewer, who caved to xenophobic pressures that previous governors had the backbone to resist, should be ashamed of herself. The law requires police to question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being an undocumented immigrant -- a mandate for racial profiling on a massive scale. Legal immigrants will be required to carry papers proving that they have a right to be in the United States. Those without documentation can be charged with the crime of trespassing and jailed for up to six months.

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights -- and supporters of sane governance -- held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it.

But where was the Tea Party crowd?
Isn't the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim -- and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state -- would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?
washingtonpost.com

The Arizona law mirrors the federal law, of course you wouldn't know that because you haven't read the bill.

Since the feds are doing nothing to enforce their own fucking law, the state of Arizona has decided to help them out. Trust me, many states will soon be following suit.

 

[Barb]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

I disagree. Liberals and progressives support government regulation of business (one example) because it is a consumer protection against fraud, pollution, environmental degradation, and unbridled power, and as such is a social good, something that our taxes should support (because in that case our money is spent on OUR benefit). Tell me what social good comes from regressive policies that reduce civil liberty, or intrude because of the religious preferences of some into the ability of others to enjoy equal protection under the law, or because of xenophobia, prevents others from doing the same? The Constitution specifies "citizens" in very few places, in most parts listing protections it does not.

If government really wanted to curb undocumented immigration, and if that is what the majority of people wanted as well, the businesses that employ and profit from undocumented labor would be subject to spirited enforcement of the laws already on the books. They are not, and you don't see a lot of screaming in the streets over it.

 

[Barb]

Dude, what reasons am I "arbitrarily" imagining? I answered the second question in another post before I saw this.

 

[Oddball]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

I disagree. Liberals and progressives support government regulation of business (one example) because it is a consumer protection against fraud, pollution, environmental degradation, and unbridled power, and as such is a social good, something that our taxes should support (because in that case our money is spent on OUR benefit).

Yeah, y'all tell yourselves that it's always different when you support big overbearing gubmint.

 

[tigerbob]

Arizona's draconian new immigration law is an abomination -- racist, arbitrary, oppressive, mean-spirited, unjust. About the only hopeful thing that can be said is that the legislation, which Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed Friday, goes so outrageously far that it may well be unconstitutional.

Brewer, who caved to xenophobic pressures that previous governors had the backbone to resist, should be ashamed of herself. The law requires police to question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being an undocumented immigrant -- a mandate for racial profiling on a massive scale. Legal immigrants will be required to carry papers proving that they have a right to be in the United States. Those without documentation can be charged with the crime of trespassing and jailed for up to six months.

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights -- and supporters of sane governance -- held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it.

But where was the Tea Party crowd?
Isn't the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim -- and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state -- would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?
washingtonpost.com

I support the tea party objective of reining in public spending, yet have no real problem being required to carry my green card. It's a bit of a pain, but that's about it.

But perhaps because I don't have brown skin or speak Spanish my views don't matter. Oh well...

 

[Samson]

I support the tea party objective of reining in public spending, yet have no real problem being required to carry my green card. It's a bit of a pain, but that's about it.

But perhaps because I don't have brown skin or speak Spanish my views don't matter. Oh well...

If you're gonna be in the USA, then you really need to learn Spanish.

 

[Bfgrn]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

Bullshit...liberal puts human beings ahead of property. Conservatives see other human beings AS property. The right squeals about 'individual' freedom. What that word really means is ME freedom, not you or anybody else.

Our founding fathers created a GOVERNMENT, not corporations or insurance cartels with REAL death panels.

The teabaggers are advocates for the modern day British East India Companies.

 

[Barb]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

I disagree. Liberals and progressives support government regulation of business (one example) because it is a consumer protection against fraud, pollution, environmental degradation, and unbridled power, and as such is a social good, something that our taxes should support (because in that case our money is spent on OUR benefit).

Yeah, y'all tell yourselves that it's always different when you support big overbearing gubmint.

I don't see something that contributes to the strength of our society or my fellow humans as "overbearing." There are real and pervasive costs to us as a society and to our economy when the game is rigged to let some few profit at the expense of everyone else, including future generations, and those costs can and should be avoided. We live in an instant gratification age, where profit and loss is measured quarterly, if not monthly or weekly, and the long term is for someone else to concern themselves with.

 

[Barb]

The differencve 'twix the liberals and conservatives, the teaparty folks and the anui-teaparty folks, the Rs and the Ds have NOTHING WHATEVER to do with loving or hating intrusive government.

BOTH teams support the government when they LIKE what it is intruding upon, and both hate the government when it is intuding in ways they do NOT approve of.

And BOTH claim they love freedom, and that the other side is authoritarian.

Partisans on both sides are basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen to their propaganda.

Bullshit...liberal puts human beings ahead of property. Conservatives see other human beings AS property. The right squeals about 'individual' freedom. What that word really means is ME freedom, not you or anybody else.

Our founding fathers created a GOVERNMENT, not corporations or insurance cartels with REAL death panels.

The teabaggers are advocates for the modern day British East India Companies.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bfgrn again.

 

[Barb]

Arizona's draconian new immigration law is an abomination -- racist, arbitrary, oppressive, mean-spirited, unjust. About the only hopeful thing that can be said is that the legislation, which Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed Friday, goes so outrageously far that it may well be unconstitutional.

Brewer, who caved to xenophobic pressures that previous governors had the backbone to resist, should be ashamed of herself. The law requires police to question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being an undocumented immigrant -- a mandate for racial profiling on a massive scale. Legal immigrants will be required to carry papers proving that they have a right to be in the United States. Those without documentation can be charged with the crime of trespassing and jailed for up to six months.

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights -- and supporters of sane governance -- held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it.

But where was the Tea Party crowd?
Isn't the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim -- and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state -- would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?
washingtonpost.com

I support the tea party objective of reining in public spending, yet have no real problem being required to carry my green card. It's a bit of a pain, but that's about it.

But perhaps because I don't have brown skin or speak Spanish my views don't matter. Oh well...

Because if you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right? Every act is a small step. Every act seems inconsequential at the time.

 

[Bfgrn]

The TP claims to be patriots. They scream bloody murder that having to buy health insurance (which all of them already do) is an attack on their freedom

Here we have a direct violation of the fourth amendment. US citizens being stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance. Where is the TP?

Problem being that nobody is being stopped merely to show ID.

Tell ya what...Next time you get pulled over for having a tail light out and get asked for license, registration and insurance, you scream bloody murder about your civil rights and call the cop a fascist, m'kay?

Hey DUD, you just proved you are a real Jethro...people CAN and WILL be stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance.

 

[tigerbob]

Arizona's draconian new immigration law is an abomination -- racist, arbitrary, oppressive, mean-spirited, unjust. About the only hopeful thing that can be said is that the legislation, which Republican Gov. Jan Brewer signed Friday, goes so outrageously far that it may well be unconstitutional.

Brewer, who caved to xenophobic pressures that previous governors had the backbone to resist, should be ashamed of herself. The law requires police to question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being an undocumented immigrant -- a mandate for racial profiling on a massive scale. Legal immigrants will be required to carry papers proving that they have a right to be in the United States. Those without documentation can be charged with the crime of trespassing and jailed for up to six months.

Activists for Latino and immigrant rights -- and supporters of sane governance -- held weekend rallies denouncing the new law and vowing to do everything they can to overturn it.

But where was the Tea Party crowd?
Isn't the whole premise of the Tea Party movement that overreaching government poses a grave threat to individual freedom? It seems to me that a law allowing individuals to be detained and interrogated on a whim -- and requiring legal residents to carry identification documents, as in a police state -- would send the Tea Partyers into apoplexy. Or is there some kind of exception if the people whose freedoms are being taken away happen to have brown skin and might speak Spanish?
washingtonpost.com

I support the tea party objective of reining in public spending, yet have no real problem being required to carry my green card. It's a bit of a pain, but that's about it.

But perhaps because I don't have brown skin or speak Spanish my views don't matter. Oh well...

Because if you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about, right? Every act is a small step. Every act seems inconsequential at the time.

OK, thanks for reminding me of the classic libertarian justification for doing nothing about anything ever, but you're actually quoting it out of context.

You will doubtless remember that the maxim ends "And then they came for me, and there was nobody left to complain". Well, in this case they have come for me, since I am an immigrant, and I don't think it's a big deal to be required to carry ID. I carry ID anyway. I am as much the focus of this law as a Mexican living in Arizona.

 

[American Horse]

I disagree. Liberals and progressives support government regulation of business (one example) because it is a consumer protection against fraud, pollution, environmental degradation, and unbridled power, and as such is a social good, something that our taxes should support (because in that case our money is spent on OUR benefit). Tell me what social good comes from regressive policies that reduce civil liberty, or intrude because of the religious preferences of some into the ability of others to enjoy equal protection under the law, or because of xenophobia, prevents others from doing the same?

It is a social good to enforce immigration laws, when the object of the law is to protect citizens in their own property. As far as 70 miles north of the US/Mexico border, American citizens are unable to leave their homes unprotected for even a couple hours. Chances are good that when they return, their houses will be occupied by illegals, or at best have only been broken into with their property stolen and destroyed. Where is the equal protection in that situation? Those same citizens whose property rights are being violated interact with people with hispanic physical characteristics every single day whose citizenship they have no reason to question; people whom they regard as friends and citizens. But when strangers in and on their land are arrested in instances of lawbreaking, in whatever manner, it is a bonafide responsibility of government in the capacity of police officers to ask them for identification. If that identification is suspect or fraudulent, and they cannot speak english, then it is reasonable to suspect that they are not American citizens and are here illegally, and further investigation is warranted.

EDIT: Where is the Tea Party crowd? One of the greatest motiviations of the TP people is preservation of property rights from being taken by government either by direct action or from lacking government action in responsibly defending the constitution.

A large percentage of property owners north of the US/Mex border in Arizona have abandoned their properties because it became too dangerous to continue living on it. These large areas have in effect become, unofficially, Mexican territory.

 

[Oddball]

The TP claims to be patriots. They scream bloody murder that having to buy health insurance (which all of them already do) is an attack on their freedom

Here we have a direct violation of the fourth amendment. US citizens being stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance. Where is the TP?

Problem being that nobody is being stopped merely to show ID.

Tell ya what...Next time you get pulled over for having a tail light out and get asked for license, registration and insurance, you scream bloody murder about your civil rights and call the cop a fascist, m'kay?

Hey DUD, you just proved you are a real Jethro...people CAN and WILL be stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance.

Which section of the law says that?...Put up or shut up.

 

[tigerbob]

Problem being that nobody is being stopped merely to show ID.

Tell ya what...Next time you get pulled over for having a tail light out and get asked for license, registration and insurance, you scream bloody murder about your civil rights and call the cop a fascist, m'kay?

Hey DUD, you just proved you are a real Jethro...people CAN and WILL be stopped and detained to check for proper documentation based on nothing other than their appearance.

Which section of the law says that?...Put up or shut up.

It's an assumption. I think the assumption is that the police are guilty of racism, until proved innocent.