Tax cuts are theft

[Foxfyre]

here is a link to the actual OP:

Seeing the Forest: Tax Cuts Are Theft

The problem with this thesis is that the term "theft" confers ownership. (Almost) All taxes arise from labour. Society does not own anyone's labour. If the collective owned the labour of the individual, then the collective could dictate to the individual what that individual will work on. Clearly, that is not the case. Society recognizes that the labour of the individual is his or her own. Society taxes the income from that labour for a number of reasons, but society rightfully recognizes the inherent right of the individual to expend his or her labour anyway the individual pleases.

First off I just quoted the OP's article.

Second your argument defies itself. The article never claimed that society owns anybody's labor, yours or anybody else's, it claimed that those who benefited most from the social contract owed it to society to give the most back.

Which you yourself acknowledged when you said "Society taxes the income from that labour for a number of reasons".

But everything else you said was a straw man, unless your own recognition that society has a right to tax income represents a claim to the individual's labor.

Are you saying nothing at all, or are you saying that society has no right to assess taxes on income?

There are some here on USMB, however, who don't phrase it in those exact terms, but they do see the government/society as owning everything including labor and it is then appropriate for government to tax whatever it wants and then make proper allocations with the 'most needy' of course receiving everything regardless of why they are 'needy'.

And it is in this context that we see 'theft' in the process of confiscating property (taxing) and reallocating that property.

All that property is the product of somebody's labor.

 

[Toro]

But everything else you said was a straw man, unless your own recognition that society has a right to tax income represents a claim to the individual's labor.

Are you saying nothing at all, or are you saying that society has no right to assess taxes on income?

Society does not have a right to tax an individual's labour. We recognize that taxation is necessary for the functioning of a civil society and to act as an insurer of last resort, but nobody has a right to the labour of others.

 

[boedicca]

Kudos to Toro.

Well said.

 

[loosecannon]

Society does not have a right to tax an individual's labour. We recognize that taxation is necessary for the functioning of a civil society and to act as an insurer of last resort, but nobody has a right to the labour of others.

Then you don't have a right to live in society or to anything society provides. At all. No rights whatsoever. None.

If that works for you, great.

But when YOU choose to partake of the benefits and blessings of society you sacrifice some of your sovereignty to the society at large and the governments installed as agencies of the people.

That's the social contract, if you don't like it, leave.

 

[loosecannon]

Kudos to Toro.

Well said.

He is full of shit.

 

[loosecannon]

Definitions of social contract on the Web:

* an implicit agreement among people that results in the organization of society; individual surrenders liberty in return for protection
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Social contract describes a broad class of theories that try to explain the ways in which people form states to maintain social order. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

* The Social Contract, Or Principles of Political Right (Du contrat social ou Principes du droit politique) (1762) by Jean-Jacques Rousseau, is the book in which Rousseau theorized about the best way in which to set up a political community in the face of the problems of commercial society which ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract

* The social contract in Malaysia refers to the agreement made by the country's founding fathers in the Constitution. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract_(Malaysia)

* The Social Contract refers to a 1993 initiative of the provincial Ontario New Democratic Party government of Bob Rae to impose austerity measures on civil service. The plan imposed a wage freeze and mandatory unpaid days of leave for civil servants, which became known as Rae Days.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Contract_(Ontario)

* The Social Contract is a term used to describe policy by the Labour government of Harold Wilson in 1970s Britain.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Contract_(Britain)

* "The Social Contract" is the seventeenth episode of the fifth season of House. It aired on March 9th, 2009.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract_(House)

* agreement among all the people in a society to give up part of their freedom to a government in exchange for protection of natural rights. John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau were two European political philosophers who wrote about this concept.
HistoryCentral.com - Your Source for Everything History -> American History > US Civic Terms

civics 101

 

[Sallow]

Kudos to Toro.

Well said.

He is full of shit.

Oh gosh.

Both of you make good points.

Society is a construct that enables the indivdual to do things within a collective that indivdual would have a great deal of trouble doing on their own.

And there is a social contract. With obligations on both sides.

 

[Oddball]

Definitions of social contract on the Web:

* an implicit agreement among people that results in the organization of society; individual surrenders liberty in return for protection
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

* Social contract describes a broad class of theories that try to explain the ways in which people form states to maintain social order. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract

* The Social Contract, Or Principles of Political Right (Du contrat social ou Principes du droit politique) (1762) by Jean-Jacques Rousseau, is the book in which Rousseau theorized about the best way in which to set up a political community in the face of the problems of commercial society which ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract

* The social contract in Malaysia refers to the agreement made by the country's founding fathers in the Constitution. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_contract_(Malaysia)

* The Social Contract refers to a 1993 initiative of the provincial Ontario New Democratic Party government of Bob Rae to impose austerity measures on civil service. The plan imposed a wage freeze and mandatory unpaid days of leave for civil servants, which became known as Rae Days.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Contract_(Ontario)

* The Social Contract is a term used to describe policy by the Labour government of Harold Wilson in 1970s Britain.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Contract_(Britain)

* "The Social Contract" is the seventeenth episode of the fifth season of House. It aired on March 9th, 2009.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract_(House)

* agreement among all the people in a society to give up part of their freedom to a government in exchange for protection of natural rights. John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau were two European political philosophers who wrote about this concept.
HistoryCentral.com - Your Source for Everything History -> American History > US Civic Terms

civics 101

In real law, rather than the pretend world of unicorns that progressive liberoidals like to live in, the alleged and mythical "social contract" would be thrown out as an unlawful contract of adhesion.

Law 101.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adhesion+Contract

http://www.legal-explanations.com/definitions/adhesion-contract.htm

 

[loosecannon]

Fuck you Oddballs:

Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified. Ratified 2/3/1913. Note History

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

 

[Oddball]

Sorry, asshole....The 16th Amendment still doesn't mean that all you earn belongs to gubmint first.

The word "theft" conveys some important information that you're either too stupid and/or too blindly partisan to accept....By bet is on both.

 

[loosecannon]

Article one, section two:

(Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.)

Article two section 8:

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Section 9 - Limits on Congress

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.)

from the document which constitutes the core of our social contract

 

[Oddball]

Wrong, yet again.

Your reading comprehension "skills" (for lack of a better term) really suck.

 

[loosecannon]

Sorry, asshole....The 16th Amendment still doesn't mean that all you earn belongs to gubmint first.

The word "theft" conveys some important information that you're either too stupid and/or too blindly partisan to accept....By bet is on both.

You are full of shit, asshole. We aren't talking about whether the government owns your property, we are talking about whether they have the right to tax your income.

The word theft simply implies something is stolen. Something that was once the property of one entity is assumed illegally or immorally by another.

Get a friggin clue.

 

[loosecannon]

Wrong, yet again.

Your reading comprehension "skills" (for lack of a better term) really suck.

How the fuck could I be wrong when all i did was quote the singular document which defines all of your rights?

Are you as stupid in real life?

 

[loosecannon]

In real law, rather than the pretend world of unicorns that progressive liberoidals like to live in, the alleged and mythical "social contract" would be thrown out as an unlawful contract of adhesion.

Law 101.

Adhesion Contract legal definition of Adhesion Contract. Adhesion Contract synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Adhesion Contract definition

The social contract is not an adhesion contract.

Google

social contract, 37 million hits, learn to read, dipshit.

 

[Oddball]

Wrong, yet again.

Your reading comprehension "skills" (for lack of a better term) really suck.

How the fuck could I be wrong when all i did was quote the singular document which defines all of your rights?

Because you still fail the basic threshold of reading comprehension.

The whole presumption of this stupid thread is that people keeping what is theirs to begin with is somehow tantamount to "theft".

Likewise, your historical knowledge as to what the framers set forth as lawful taxes (think fuel taxes to pay for roads and bridges) didn't include unapportioned expropriations from the productive activities of the citizenry.

Come back when you have at least vague understandings of semantics and American history.

 

[Oddball]

In real law, rather than the pretend world of unicorns that progressive liberoidals like to live in, the alleged and mythical "social contract" would be thrown out as an unlawful contract of adhesion.

Law 101.

Adhesion Contract legal definition of Adhesion Contract. Adhesion Contract synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

Adhesion Contract definition

The social contract is not an adhesion contract.

Google

social contract, 37 million hits, learn to read, dipshit.

The dipshit who needs to learn how to read is you.

Try starting with reading and comprehending the legal definitions of "adhesion contract", dipshit.

 

[Toro]

Society does not have a right to tax an individual's labour. We recognize that taxation is necessary for the functioning of a civil society and to act as an insurer of last resort, but nobody has a right to the labour of others.

Then you don't have a right to live in society or to anything society provides. At all. No rights whatsoever. None.

If that works for you, great.

But when YOU choose to partake of the benefits and blessings of society you sacrifice some of your sovereignty to the society at large and the governments installed as agencies of the people.

That's the social contract, if you don't like it, leave.

Strawman.

I never said that there was no social contract. What I said is that society has no inherent right to take your labour.

The individual is not subservient to society. Society is subservient to the individual. Society is a collection of individuals, nothing more. That doesn't mean individuals do not work together towards a common good. What it means is that we recognize individuals have inalienable rights, not societies. Societies don't have rights. Society doesn't have a right to life or free speech. Instead, individuals act with others in a manner to advance the interests of all. But when society wants to subjugate the inherent rights of the individual, we as a society (usually) reject that.

 

[Foxfyre]

Technically, social contract is how a group of people mutually agree to share in the work and resources. It is a 'contract' between persons in a pre-political or pre-social condition specifying the terms upon which they are prepared to enter society or submit to political authority.

The U.S. Constitution is a beautiful illustration of a social contract.

Once the political authority assumes more power or authority than that decided in the social contract, however, we are no longer dealing with social contract but with something very different.

 

[Oddball]

Technically, social contract is how a group of people mutually agree to share in the work and resources....

Literally --the world I live in-- "social contract" is a mythical strawman that authoritarians like to invoke, in order to subvert the individual to the will of the mob.

By any and every legal concept of the word "contract", it lives exclusively in unicorn land.