Supporting Kurdish independence

[Kurdistani4ever]

Everyone seems to be shitting on the Kurds dream of their own country, but if these were Palestinians doing the same you'd be here patting them on the back. Sickening.

I would certainly not pat Palestinians on the back either, although they have a far better chance of establishing a state. My problem with much of this thread is threefold:

First, they support a radical communist "workers" party which is almost universally recognized as a practicing terrorist group with total disregard for civilians, not unlike the Shining Path in Peru.

The second is that these posters feel they have free reign with facts because they correctly suspect that few Westerners, and even fewer Americans, have even a rudimentary knowledge of the region. We've heard wild claims of Kurdish populations, power, lands and history.

Finally, these posters live safely in the west miles from the epicenter of the conflict. With self-righteous zeal and a nebulous grasp of facts and life on the ground in Kurd areas, they agitate for these illiterate and semi-nomadic sheepherders to take up arms against overwhelming force which can only lead to catastrophic consequences for their compatriots. While ima is undoubtedly a troll, on this he is undoubtedly right.

Look at this racist donkey. Kurd's haven't done him sh*t, and he insists on doing his internet-hate.

I'm sorry, but isn't this racism?

 

[ima]

Those trolling on the Internet are typically the biggest cowards too, if that guys got any bravery, then he should meet up in real life instead of this bullsh*t.

We are simply fighting for our homeland, which will be reborn soon. Your theory on this issue doesn't fit at all. The Iraqi's are scared of our Peshmerga, Syria will be ruined after this civil-war, while we Kurds sit in the North and protect our lands, Iran will soon be bombed (Get what i'm sayin?) And finally we have our wonderful genocidal nation - The Turks. They are no problem at all. If we wanted, we could crush Turkey and declare independence, if you think the Turkish goverment can hold back 23 million angry opressed Kurds, then i believe, you should get real.

Finally you really should quit the: "Oh but the bad Kurds played a part of the Armenian geocide, bad Kurds!" A few small Kurdish tribes joined in, and despite that our entire nation has apologized. What more do you want us to do? Quit being such a cry-baby. People suffer, people get over it.

You could crush Turkey if you wanted to?! Kurds are suffering. Quit being such a crybaby, get over it!

Do you completely lack insight and objectivity?!

We soon will. Go look at the Arab spring, we will do the exact same. Feeling scared?

YAWN!

 

[Kurdistani4ever]

Everyone seems to be shitting on the Kurds dream of their own country, but if these were Palestinians doing the same you'd be here patting them on the back. Sickening.

When it comes to us, we are surrounded by uncivilized countries, each more hateful than the other.

 

[Kurdistani4ever]

The speech of Amed's (Diyarbakir's) Mayor on the three Kurdish freedom fighters killed in Paris. I can already feel the Kurdish spring coming
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jDeLMJ5e5p0]Amed's Mayor Osman Baydemir speech on funeral for Paris victims. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[APO]

I'm trying to wake these pussy motherfuckers up to the truth: no one's just going to give them land for no reason. The Pals are fighting for what is right in their minds, the return of stolen land. The pussy CheeseKurds are sitting around complaining about the good life that they have, and then just complain and do nothing. Did I mention that they sit around whining and complaining while waiting for others to do the fighting for them?
Gimme a CheeseKurd Spring! Now!

And Kurds are fighting for what is right in their mind. To be free of oppression. The Pals have two options, 1) return to Jordan where they actually belong, 2) accept the land they inhabit.

I'm complaining about the bad life the Kurds have back in the home land. What do you know what I have done and what I haven't? Ohh, yeah, that's right. You're so full of REAL FACTS, which is not based on your assumptions, Mrs. Wonderful.

I would certainly not pat Palestinians on the back either, although they have a far better chance of establishing a state. My problem with much of this thread is threefold:

First, they support a radical communist "workers" party which is almost universally recognized as a practicing terrorist group with total disregard for civilians, not unlike the Shining Path in Peru.

The second is that these posters feel they have free reign with facts because they correctly suspect that few Westerners, and even fewer Americans, have even a rudimentary knowledge of the region. We've heard wild claims of Kurdish populations, power, lands and history.

Finally, these posters live safely in the west miles from the epicenter of the conflict. With self-righteous zeal and a nebulous grasp of facts and life on the ground in Kurd areas, they agitate for these illiterate and semi-nomadic sheepherders to take up arms against overwhelming force which can only lead to catastrophic consequences for their compatriots. While ima is undoubtedly a troll, on this he is undoubtedly right.

Oh, but Turkey they have total regard for civilians, right? They don't terrorize Kurdish civilians, right? Check the susurluk scandal, Ayhan Carkin (who alone killed more than 1000 civilians, including children!), Roboski massacre etc. What PKK does is justifiable.

 

[kirkuki]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pneC8WRuheo]Kurds increasingly entangled in Syrian war - YouTube[/ame]

 

[kirkuki]

Former work colleague: Güney worked for Türkspor

ANF, MUNICH 25.01.2013

ANF spoke to a former work colleague of Ömer Güney who has been arrested in 19 January in connection with the killings of Sakine Cansız, a co-founder of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), Fidan Doğan, representative of the Kurdistan National Congress (KNK) in Paris and Leyla Şaylemez, member of the Kurdish youth movement, in the French capital on 9 January.

According to Güney's former colleague, who spoke on condition of anonymity, the man worked at a factory in the village of Waakirchen/Marienstein from 2003 to 2009. After leaving the factory, Güney started to work as a tea seller at a Türkspor (Turkish sport) association in 2009.

There is still no precise information as to why Ömer Ziya Güney came to Germany in 2003. According to reports by the Turkish media, Güney moved from France to marry his cousin in Germany. After living in Bad Tölz for some time in 2011, Güney moved to Schliersee where he lived until he moved to France in August of 2011, according to a German landlord who rented him his house in Schliersee for about a year.

Güney's former workmate says that the man started to work at "Kinshofer GmbH" factory in the village of Marienstein/Waakirchen, ,11 km from Bad Tölz, in 2003 when he first came to Germany.

“I don't have an exact information about how he was admitted to the factory but he must have been accepted for the work through an intermediary as all the workers from Turkey were accepted for the work in that way that time. His close friends were all Turkish nationalists, he used to spend most of his time with them. He used to carry small and expensive knives in his pocket and his bag. He was also quite interested in arms. He would always wear a white shirt, a black coat and black gloves”, said his former workmate from the factory and added the followings;

“I remember he once took his car to the woods and riddled it with bullets. When the insurance company didn't meet the repair costs, he had his car repaired in an illegal way. This is what he told us at least.”

Güney's former workmate noted that he had not a straight political view or a political background. "Sometimes he was lost in thought and stood still for minutes" - he added and remarked that Güney was a great fan of Polat Alemdar, the leading character of nationalist Turkish TV series 'Kurtlar Vadisi'. "He used to watch each episode of the series and persistently tell us about it the next day", he added.

The former workmate of Güney says that he had started to see a doctor in 2008 because of a tumour he said he had on the head. “Some of those from the Turkish nationalist circle working at the factory would accompany him to see a doctor. When I asked him why he didn't go alone, he said those people were doing translation for him as he didn't know German well”, said the former workmate, contradicting the statement of his German landlord who said in an interview to ANF yesterday that Güney spoke German well and fluently.

Güney however suddenly stopped seeing a doctor, saying that the one he had was not a malignant tumor and made him no harm, said his workmate and continued as follows; “He asked me several times to take him to one of the many Alevi associations here but I refused. He never mentioned it after that time”, he said.

Güney's former workmate pointed out that he had started to work as a tea seller at the Türkspor association in the town of Hausham, 23 km from Bad Tölz, after he quit the factory in early 2009. "I know he worked at the association for six months at least”, he added.

Former work colleague: Güney worked for Türkspor | ANF

 

[kirkuki]

dont feed the trolls

 

[kirkuki]

Kurdish animals and turkish stupidity. Look at this article - its hard to believe, but its true. The latin name of the fox was made with "ill intentions" and its against "turkey's unity".... There are no words in any of the human languages to describe their stupidity.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey renames 'divisive' animals

 

[ima]

This thread should be closed until the CheeseKurds man up and do something.

 

[Meathead]

This thread should be closed until the CheeseKurds man up and do something.

They are doing something. They're posting about how brave they are.

 

[Kurdistani4ever]

This thread should be closed until the CheeseKurds man up and do something.

They are doing something. They're posting about how brave they are.

For everybody to see

 

[kirkuki]

This thread should be closed until the CheeseKurds man up and do something.

your mouth needs to be closed.

 

[kirkuki]

In Bilbao, Euskal Herria (Basque Country) for our three friends Sakine Cansiz, Fidan Dogan (Rojbin), and Leyla Saylemez who were murdered in Paris by a terrorist turk (Omer Guney)...

 

[kirkuki]

Obama welcomes peace talks in Turkey to end Kurdish issue

US President Barack Obama has confirmed his country's support for the peace initiative the Turkish government has started with Abdullah Öcalan, the imprisoned leader of the terrorist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), to settle Turkey's decades-old Kurdish issue.
Obama said in an interview that appeared in the Milliyet daily on Sunday that he applauds Turkey's effort to find a peaceful solution to a problem that has caused much suffering.

Noting that the US has always supported Turkey in its fight against terrorism, while at the same time encouraging the steps Turkey has taken to deal with the issue through the use of politics, Obama re-affirmed that the US would continue to extend concrete support in this area. Regarding the governing Justice and Development Party's (AK Party) peace initiative, Obama expressed his belief that the proactive measures the government has been taking will achieve genuine progress in settling the Kurdish issue.

The Turkish government has complained that the international community is not offering sufficient support for the removal of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad from power, and that the US, for its part, has appeared for some time to be somewhat unwilling to offer substantial backing to the opposition forces fighting the Syrian regime. However, Obama, who described the situation in Syria as a tragedy during the interview, conducted via email, seems to have taken a resolute attitude against Assad because he acknowledged that the end of the Assad regime will come, sooner or later. The US president also re-affirmed its commitment to expend efforts with Turkey to that end.

Iran's nuclear efforts have long been criticized by the US, and the interview Obama underlined the view that a nuclear Iran would pose a serious threat to all its neighbors, including Turkey. The US president, though stating that he wants to settle the issue in a peaceful way at the negotiating table with Iran, made it clear that the US is resolved in its position to not allow Iran to possess nuclear weapons. Obama admitted that Turkish companies have had to pass up business opportunities because of the sanctions imposed by the US on Iran, and that Turkish people pay a higher price for energy as a result of the same sanctions. However, he also maintained that the price the world would have to pay for gas in the event of Iran succeeding in producing nuclear weapons would be much higher, especially for neighboring countries like Turkey.

Obama also noted Turkey's request for Patriot missile systems and thanked Turkey for allowing these missiles to be deployed in its territory. He pointed out that the aim of the deployment is to protect Turkey, not Israel, against a ballistic missiles threat.

It is known that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan hopes to pay a visit to Washington to speak with Obama. However, rumors among political circles in Turkey say that he has been denied an invitation by the Obama administration, probably on account a divergence of opinion on various issues. Obama admitted that Turkey and the US have problems but that they can still talk sincerely with each other. Calling Erdoğan a good friend and a great partner with whom he has been working closely on global issues, Obama said, “I very much look forward to seeing my friend Prime Minister Erdoğan again.” He also revealed that his team is trying hard to identify a suitable date for the two leaders to meet, adding, “I'm confident that we'll find an opportunity to do so soon.”

Only seven of the 11 questions emailed to the White House by Milliyet's Washington representative were answered by Obama. As noted by the daily's representative, Pınar Ersoy, the questions the US president chose not to answer reveal a great deal. The unanswered questions may be an indication that the divergence of opinion on numerous issues between Turkey and the US persists, although at the same time the two countries may also be cooperating as close partners on a number of issues.

One of the questions Obama chose not to answer asked how the US feels about Turkey's strengthening economic and political ties with the autonomous Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) in northern Iraq while the country's relations with Baghdad have soured in the past year. Turkey has been acquiring oil and similar products from the KRG, and the oil of the region -- although small in amount -- has for some time now been exported via Turkey to international markets, an act harshly protested against by Baghdad, which maintains that it is unlawful for the KRG to export oil without authorization from the Iraqi central government.

A broad energy partnership -- including the building of an oil pipeline -- between northern Iraq and Turkey, ranging from exploration to exportation, has been in place since last year, but the project has been criticized by the US, which fears that the project may pave the way for the Kurds there to break away from Iraq by enabling the Kurdish region to become financially independent, thereby leaving the remaining part of Iraq to fall even further under Iran's influence.

Another question that went unanswered concerned the two countries' diametrically opposed attitudes on an Israeli attack on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip that took place a couple of months ago. While Erdoğan described Israel as a terrorist state following the attack, Obama said Israel had acted in self-defense. To the question whether this divergence of opinion has caused any damage to US-Turkish relations, Obama preferred not to respond.

Questions about Erdoğan's remarks on Turkey's willingness to become a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and whether Obama plans -- as he had so promised during his election campaign in 2008 -- to recognize the ordeal experienced by the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire as genocide, also went unanswered.

Obama welcomes peace talks in Turkey to end Kurdish issue : todayszamancom

 

[Kurdistani4ever]

By Yekaterina Kudashkina — The Voice of Russia

February 20, 2013

LONDON,— Dr. Yanrosh Keles, a lecturer at the London Metropolitan University, comments on the protest staged by Turkey's Kurds on the anniversary of Abdullah Ocalan's capture and the issue of Kurd-Tukish settlement.

I have to make it clear that since February in 1999 Kurds’ diaspora but also in their homeland have systematically demonstrated to mark the anniversary of the capture of Mr. Ocalan – the imprisoned leader of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party who has been abducted by the Turkish state in Kenya on February 15 in 1999. And of course what is different this year is that firstly there is that hope between Mr. Ocalan and the Turkish Government to find a sustainable solution for Turkish-Kurdish questions.

And therefore demonstrators demanded freedom for Ocalan to play his role in a possible negotiation process and to have access to information and communicate with his colleagues and other Kurdish actors.

And secondly the demonstrators called for justice and proper investigation regarding the execution of Sakine Cansiz, the co-founder of the PKK, and also Fidan Doğan, the representative of the Kurdistan National Congress in Paris, and also Leyla Soylemez, member of the Kurdish Youth who has been assassinated in Paris on the 9th of January.


And finally, as you know there is a huge development in the west Kurdistan, in Syrian Kurdistan. The Kurds have highlighted the transnational support for the Kurds in Syrian Kurdistan. They demanded international attention and support for their brothers and sisters in western Kurdistan who are under attacks of the Turkish Government supported by Al Qaeda or Salafi.

Regarding your questions, I think that there is a talk between the Turkish Government and Ocalan to find the possible, sustainable peaceful solution for Turkey’s Kurdish question. And it seems that Kurdish and Turkish people in Turkey are ready for such a process because after 30 years war between the Turkish state and the Kurds about 35 000 people have been killed, and about 70 000 people have disappeared and many of them, of course we know that there was some paramilitary group, which is responsible for the killing of thousands of Kurdish people in Turkish Kurdistan, but also Istanbul and other cities.

Now, I think we are at a turning point of whether we will have a solution to the Kurdish question. I don’t like the term “Kurdish question”, it is Turkey’s Kurdish question because it is not the question that Kurds created and not the problem that Kurds caused. This is the Turkey’s Kurdish question because the Turkish Government has denied the existence of the Kurdish people in Turkey and even banned their language and their traditions. After 85 years now we are turning to the beginning – whether we will have the federation or the autonomy for Kurds in Turkish Kurdistan. And this is the debate about this.

But what could be the solutions to the problem?

The solution should be – Turkey has to accept that Turkey is a multiethnic, multistate, multilingual country. And until now the policies of the Turkish Government were to assimilate all ethnic groups, to create an imagined Turkish nation. However, as we can see after different uprisings of the Kurdish people this project, the Turkish imagined political concept didn’t work, the national politics of the Turkish Government didn’t work.

The solution is to have a peace process, to talk to each other, to accept the Kurds as actors, to accept the representatives of the Kurdish people. And also to give the equal citizenship that shouldn’t be that all the Kurds forced to learn Turkish. The Turkish language play a dominant role, the Kurdish language however is still criminalized and Kurds are still not allowed to have a formal education on their mother-tongue. All this bias should be removed and Turkey has to accept that the Kurdish language should be the second official language in Turkey. And also Turkey has to introduce a new constitution which accepts the existence of the Kurds and their political representatives in Turkey.

But Sir, is this kind of solution viable under the current Government?

It is possible, I mean we have to take into account that the other governments, let’s say Demirel Government, Çiller Government and other governments, they aimed at eliminating the Kurdish political movement in Turkey. But this Government has introduced some legislations, for example that now the Kurds have the right to give a statement in a court. Even though, still, if they want to speak in court, if they want to have an interpreter they have to pay themselves which is unacceptable because if you want to speak your mother-tongue but you have to pay for this. This is another way of punishment of Kurds.

But there are some marks, there are some intentions to negotiate with Kurds not directly, but indirectly and to accept the existence of the Kurds. For example, there is now 24 hour broadcasting in Kurdish. Of course still in this TRT 6, the 24 hour broadcasting in Kurdish, they are making the propaganda of the Turkish state in some ways, but still we can see that there is a power base shift in the politics of the Turkish state.

Until the AKP Government the other governments have totally denied the existence of the Kurds. Even in some cases they said – we accept the Kurdish existence – but still, they attacked the Kurds, they imprisoned the Kurdish people and as I mentioned many people have been have disappeared and killed by paramilitary groups.

But today there are some statements which give hope to people that there will be a political process. In other way the Kurds, if to compare this situation with the 1990s, Kurds now have more resources – political resources, they have media (for example, they have the federal television, the newspaper) – which create a sense of belonging among Kurds, bring the Kurds together in diaspora but also in their homeland. This will help them to create a political entity in Turkey and make possible to demand more rights – cultural, political rights for the Kurdish people.

Don’t you think that in such circumstances Mr. Erdogan would make an elegant move if he let Mr. Ocalan go?

This is a long process. I believe Ocalan will come out one day from the prison because accept it or not, but Ocalan is a key figure in this process. Ocalan is a symbol, figure associated by many Turks with someone who wants to divide the Turkish national territory or undermine its unity in order to establish an independent Kurdistan.

But for the majority of Kurds Ocalan, even the Kurdish dissidents who criticize Ocalan and PKK, they see him and his political movement as the ones who brought the voice of Kurds onto the international political level forcing Turkey to challenge its discriminatory assimilation policies and recognize the Kurdish existence in Turkey. And therefore Ocalan has a huge broader support among the Kurds, not only of Kurds living in Turkish Kurdistan, but of Kurds living in Iran, in Iraq, in east Kurdistan, in south Kurdistan, in west or Syrian Kurdistan.

And we also hear the huge support among the Kurdish diaspora which has created a transnational Kurdish political movement in Europe lobbying for Kurds and for PKK, and also highlighting the situation of Ocalan in Turkish prison. Therefore, I believe maybe Ocalan will be under a house arrest for certain time and later on Ocalan will be free. I mean we have to also remember the case of Mandela. Mandela was imprisoned and later on he was under a house arrest, and later on he was freed. This is one good example for the case of Ocalan I think. I mean there are similar features between Ocalan case and Mandela case.

This demonstration across the nation’s state borders constructs a transnation state. The Kurdish issue is not anymore limited to the territory of Turkey, it is beyond these territories. In this transnational dynamic, Kurdish migrants in part reconfigure and negotiate, and reproduce their ethnic group identities. And for the Kurds involved in the political transnationalism, which we talked about regarding the demonstrations, this identity became visible to lobbying for the homeland, organizing rallies, rising funds for political parties and networks in homeland.

Of course, as I mentioned, the rapid development of transport and communication technologies have contributed to the exchange of resources and information along with participation in socio-cultural and political activities among the Kurds in different political spheres. When Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Kurds in Halabja in 1989, the Kurds demonstrated but many of the Kurds didn’t know what was going on in Iraq because at that time there wasn’t any Kurdish media, Kurdish transnational television.

But when Ocalan was abducted in 1999, at that time there was the Kurdish television which has collected the Kurds across the geographical space, across the national borders and created a sense of belonging to the Kurdish nation or a sentiment of belonging to the Kurdish nation. And therefore, I think today in these demonstrations, in the peace process, if we will have the peace negotiations the Kurdish media will play central role in informing the Kurds in diaspora but also in their homeland.

Dr. Keles, thank you so much. And just to remind our guest speaker was Dr. Yanrosh Keles – lecturer at the London Metropolitan University.

Copyright ©, respective author or news agency, ruvr.ru

 

[ima]

nobody cares ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Kurdistani4ever]

nobody cares ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Clearly you do, otherwise you would get a life and stop stalking this thread

 

[High_Gravity]

nobody cares ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Obviously you do faggot, you commented on it.

 

[ima]

nobody cares ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Obviously you do faggot, you commented on it.

HG's got a cob on!