States With Stand Your Ground Laws See More Homicides

[Star]

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These laws lower the cost of using lethal force," says Mark Hoekstra, the economist behind the study. "Our study finds that, as a result, you get more of it. Homicides go up by 7% to 9% in states that pass the laws."

What the study didn't find was "evidence of any [crime] deterrence effect over that same time period."



As to why this is the case, economist Mark Hoekstra told NPR that Stand Your Ground encourages more lethal force by lowering its costs:

“One possibility for the increase in homicide is that perhaps [in cases where] there would have been a fistfight … now, because of stand your ground laws, it’s possible that those escalate into something much more violent and lethal.”
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[tjvh]

If the rise in homicides is because criminals are getting killed during the commission of a crime what the hell is the problem? Maybe idiots will get the message that it isn't healthy to assault other people.

 

[Inthemiddle]

1) "Homocide" rates include assailants justifiably killed in the commission of crimes. So your statistic is ambiguous at best.

2) Not all stand your ground laws are the same, and not all are like that of Florida.

 

[Star]

1) "Homocide" rates include assailants justifiably killed in the commission of crimes. So your statistic is ambiguous at best.

2) Not all stand your ground laws are the same, and not all are like that of Florida.

No doubt there is a certain amount of built in ambiguity, if for no other reason than the cop that makes the report has, what should be a judge's discretion as to whether or not a crime has been committed, or if an arrest should be made, etc. but-----but two separate reports, one by Texas A&M the other by Georgia State University came to about the same conclusion: ""It could be that these are self-defense killings," he said. "On the other hand, the increase could be driven by an escalation of violence by criminals. Or it could be an escalation of violence in otherwise nonviolent situations."

But which is it?

Hoekstra checked to see whether police were listing more cases as "justifiable homicides" in states that passed stand your ground laws. If there were more self-defense killings, this number should have gone up. He also examined whether more criminals were showing up armed.

In both cases, he found nothing. There were small increases in both numbers, but it was hard to tell whether there was really any difference.

So if the numbers on justifiable homicide and criminals using lethal force don't explain the rise in homicide, what's causing the increase?

"One possibility for the increase in homicide is that perhaps [in cases where] there would have been a fistfight ... now, because of stand your ground laws, it's possible that those escalate into something much more violent and lethal," says Hoekstra."

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[akelch]

.

These laws lower the cost of using lethal force," says Mark Hoekstra, the economist behind the study. "Our study finds that, as a result, you get more of it. Homicides go up by 7% to 9% in states that pass the laws."

What the study didn't find was "evidence of any [crime] deterrence effect over that same time period."



As to why this is the case, economist Mark Hoekstra told NPR that Stand Your Ground encourages more lethal force by lowering its costs:

“One possibility for the increase in homicide is that perhaps [in cases where] there would have been a fistfight … now, because of stand your ground laws, it’s possible that those escalate into something much more violent and lethal.”
​

.

So did the crime rate (rape, theft, etc.) go down, up or stayed the same? Who are the people that died in the Homicides (cops, innocent children, crooks, drug dealers, etc.)?

Need more data.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

.

These laws lower the cost of using lethal force," says Mark Hoekstra, the economist behind the study. "Our study finds that, as a result, you get more of it. Homicides go up by 7% to 9% in states that pass the laws."

What the study didn't find was "evidence of any [crime] deterrence effect over that same time period."



As to why this is the case, economist Mark Hoekstra told NPR that Stand Your Ground encourages more lethal force by lowering its costs:

“One possibility for the increase in homicide is that perhaps [in cases where] there would have been a fistfight … now, because of stand your ground laws, it’s possible that those escalate into something much more violent and lethal.”
​

.

Homicides? are they combining murder with self defense? neither are the same.

 

[Claudette]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

 

[J.E.D]

1) "Homocide" rates include assailants justifiably killed in the commission of crimes. So your statistic is ambiguous at best.

2) Not all stand your ground laws are the same, and not all are like that of Florida.

How many homicides would have been found "justifiable" if these laws were not on the books? In other words, judges and prosecutors hands are tied in some cases. Because of the law, people are getting away with killing people who were no real threat to them.

 

[J.E.D]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Are you going to "stand your ground" and shoot a black kid whose music is too loud?

 

[squeeze berry]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Are you going to "stand your ground" and shoot a black kid whose music is too loud?

nine posts in and Jose plays the race card

 

[Claudette]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Are you going to "stand your ground" and shoot a black kid whose music is too loud?

Nope and thats a stupid question.

 

[chikenwing]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Are you going to "stand your ground" and shoot a black kid whose music is too loud?

You kidding right? If your serious,gotta be dumb post of the week.

 

[Dragonlady]

nine posts in and Jose plays the race card

He's not "playing the race card". A man in Florida shot an unarmed 17 year old in a car with his friends after an argument over loud music.

Florida man shoots and kills 17-year-old teen after argument over loud music at gas station - NY Daily News

I hope this guy dies in prison.

 

[Star]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Does your claim that SYG laws lower crime rates hold water, according to Texas A&M's Professor Hoekstra; Still, based on the available data, it appears that crafters of these laws sought to give good guys more latitude to defend themselves against bad guys. But what Hoekstra's data suggest is that in real-life conflicts, both sides think of the other guy as the bad guy. Both believe the law gives them the right to shoot.


"Our study finds that, that homicides go up by 7 to 9 percent in states that pass the laws, relative to states that didn't pass the laws over the same time period," he says.
As to whether the laws reduce crime -- by creating a deterrence for criminals -- he says, "we find no evidence of any deterrence effect over that same time period."




And Politifact gives SYG laws a - maybe, maybe not.
PolitiFact Florida | Crime rates in Florida have dropped since 'stand your ground,' says Dennis Baxley

Our ruling

Baxley said "We’ve had a dramatic drop in violent crime since this law has been in effect." His comments in television interviews implied the law itself reduced violent crime rates. There has been a drop, but rates were declining before the law went into effect. We found no proof that that the "stand your ground" law caused the drop in crime rates; some groups worry the law could lead to more violence. We rate his claim Half True.
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[Stephanie]

1) "Homocide" rates include assailants justifiably killed in the commission of crimes. So your statistic is ambiguous at best.

2) Not all stand your ground laws are the same, and not all are like that of Florida.

How many homicides would have been found "justifiable" if these laws were not on the books? In other words, judges and prosecutors hands are tied in some cases. Because of the law, people are getting away with killing people who were no real threat to them.

omg..even if they didn't have that law they can still be found.. JUSTIFIABLE
good grief

 

[squeeze berry]

nine posts in and Jose plays the race card

He's not "playing the race card". A man in Florida shot an unarmed 17 year old in a car with his friends after an argument over loud music.

Florida man shoots and kills 17-year-old teen after argument over loud music at gas station - NY Daily News

I hope this guy dies in prison.

why drag race into it at all?

 

[Stephanie]

Some of these people won't be happy until we are all at the mercy of the criminals and this Guberment

 

[Dragonlady]

why drag race into it at all?

Because white people who "feel threatened" by unarmed black teenagers seems to be a REAL problem in Florida.

 

[NoNukes]

Well I live in "stand your ground" Florida and believe me I will stand my ground if someone breaks into my house.

My shotgun and I are more than ready to "stand our ground."

Seems I remember when Texas passed the law about carrying guns that folks thought there would victims falling all over the place.

The only thing that happened was the crime rate went down.

Stand your ground?? You bet.

Are you going to "stand your ground" and shoot a black kid whose music is too loud?

Nope and thats a stupid question.

No, it is not a stupid question.

 

[PredFan]

Show me where it shows that stand your ground caused the death of an innocent man. Otherwise your OP is useless. It could be said that stand your ground kept the rates from being higher.