Spend More, Tax the Rich Americans Say

[Mr. Peepers]

You have people like Peepers, who hates his boss and thinks that must be how the business world really is everywhere.

What? I don't hate my boss. I like my boss. He is fair and kind. And he doesn't make budget decisions, the executives do. What I'm saying is that I'm tired of watching the workers in the trenches of all kinds of companies getting the shaft while the higher-ups sacrifice nothing. And apparently, this is very common among businesses everywhere these days. I work hard and I do a good job. What is wrong for wanting just compensation for that? That makes me a victim? Why even argue with you, anyway? You are just going to keep repeating your righty talking points over and over again no matter what I say.

 

[Oldandtired]

We were discussing federal income taxes, not ss and medicare.

I was discussing the indisputable FACT that every tax ends up being paid by more than just the rich. I was refuting, as I recall, your ludicrous claim that no one had a tax burden greater than 35% or so.

Again, I was speaking of income tax. But if you do wish to add in SS and medicare, the highest amount...after deductions...would be more around 30%.

No offense...but FICA and medicare are considered income tax as it is deducted from ones paycheck.

They are taxes on ones income.

Unless you are saying that you alkways talk in terms of dictionary definition.

But in business...when tax on income is discusses it is referring to all...including med, FICA, state local and federal.

Sorry...it is just the way it is.

 

[DiamondDave]

You have people like Peepers, who hates his boss and thinks that must be how the business world really is everywhere.

What? I don't hate my boss. I like my boss. He is fair and kind. And he doesn't make budget decisions, the executives do. What I'm saying is that I'm tired of watching the workers in the trenches of all kinds of companies getting the shaft while the higher-ups sacrifice nothing. And apparently, this is very common among businesses everywhere these days. I work hard and I do a good job. What is wrong for wanting just compensation for that? That makes me a victim? Why even argue with you, anyway? You are just going to keep repeating your righty talking points over and over again no matter what I say.

If you don't FEEL you are getting just compensation, you have the freedom to try and go somewhere else.. or to try and operate your own business to give yourself just compensation

As for higher ups not sacrificing anything... THAT is truly laughable

 

[Bern80]

something stopping you form putting your money in offshore accounts....using the same "loopholes".....

The exact point I madew when I said "we have no more access to hiding income than anyone else"...

But Ravi ignored it.

I don't believe I ever said anything about hiding income. I said loopholes. For instance, one of them is wealthy people are allowed to right off a higher percentage of their charitable contributions.

You mean to tell me that what a person can deduct from charitable giving is determined by their income? Okay, show me:

Charitable Contribution Deductions (Publication 78 Help, Part II)

 

[DiamondDave]

Let everyone feel the pain of paying 36% of your income to the government. It hurts.

And that's just income. Add in sales taxes, property taxes, carbon taxes, hell it won't be worth it to even work anymore when half your money is taken from you.

With a pure flat tax on all personal income the rate could be perhaps as low as 10-15%.

you do realize someone making 50,000 will give up 5k and someone making 500,000 k will give up 50,000 when they used to give up almost 200,000

And the liberal stance of selective equality rears it's head again

 

[Ravi]

I was discussing the indisputable FACT that every tax ends up being paid by more than just the rich. I was refuting, as I recall, your ludicrous claim that no one had a tax burden greater than 35% or so.

Again, I was speaking of income tax. But if you do wish to add in SS and medicare, the highest amount...after deductions...would be more around 30%.

No offense...but FICA and medicare are considered income tax as it is deducted from ones paycheck.

They are taxes on ones income.

Unless you are saying that you alkways talk in terms of dictionary definition.

But in business...when tax on income is discusses it is referring to all...including med, FICA, state local and federal.

Sorry...it is just the way it is.

We call those payroll taxes. Income tax is taxed on all income, payroll tax is only taxed on employment income...and in the case of SS only a portion of the income.

 

[Bern80]

You have people like Peepers, who hates his boss and thinks that must be how the business world really is everywhere.

What? I don't hate my boss. I like my boss. He is fair and kind. And he doesn't make budget decisions, the executives do. What I'm saying is that I'm tired of watching the workers in the trenches of all kinds of companies getting the shaft while the higher-ups sacrifice nothing. And apparently, this is very common among businesses everywhere these days. I work hard and I do a good job. What is wrong for wanting just compensation for that? That makes me a victim? Why even argue with you, anyway? You are just going to keep repeating your righty talking points over and over again no matter what I say.

Did I miss quote you?

My boss' boss sits back and reads the paper all day and goes to meetings.

'Apparently' based on what, SPECIFICALLY? It didn't where I work. The higher ups took a bigger cut than we did.

 

[Ravi]

With a pure flat tax on all personal income the rate could be perhaps as low as 10-15%.

you do realize someone making 50,000 will give up 5k and someone making 500,000 k will give up 50,000 when they used to give up almost 200,000

And the liberal stance of selective equality rears it's head again

In reality someone earning $500,00 from a job is probably paying around $125K in taxes, not $200K. But yes, it would be a savings for them. The people that might be unhappy with this are the ones that are earning their income from investments.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

As for higher ups not sacrificing anything... THAT is truly laughable

Well, they got a cost of living raise and a bonus. We did not. So, what did they sacrifice... maybe their bonus was a little smaller than last year?

 

[DiamondDave]

You are making statements along the lines that it is wrong to save or keep their monies earned.... like they must do the things YOU want them to with the recent monies derived from supposed tax cuts or recent profits

I see. It's ok for a really rich person to keep the majority of his money because he's rich. However, I am not rich, so I am not allowed to keep the majority of what little I make because I am not rich and do not have access to shelters and tax breaks. Yeah, that's fair.

Actually, it was shrub who was saying that these tax cuts would create jobs and stimulate the economy when he was pimping this farce, not me. Remember? I don't have the power to tell anyone to do anything with their money.

Fair is the freedom to derive your own income from your own choices, decisions, efforts, actions, etc.. not that the government grants you payback at the expense of another or unequal treatment because you feel bad about not making as much money

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Did I miss quote you?

Yes, you said my boss, not his boss. I don't deal w/him as much.

 

[Oldandtired]

Again, I was speaking of income tax. But if you do wish to add in SS and medicare, the highest amount...after deductions...would be more around 30%.

No offense...but FICA and medicare are considered income tax as it is deducted from ones paycheck.

They are taxes on ones income.

Unless you are saying that you alkways talk in terms of dictionary definition.

But in business...when tax on income is discusses it is referring to all...including med, FICA, state local and federal.

Sorry...it is just the way it is.

We call those payroll taxes. Income tax is taxed on all income, payroll tax is only taxed on employment income...and in the case of SS only a portion of the income.

And for over 90% of Americans, FICA is on ALL of their income...the cap is 104K

We are apart with semantics...and I call us even when semantics come into play.

but the crux of what we are debating was your stetemnt that I am a liar or an idiot when I say I pay more than 35% in income taxes...I pay well into the 40's....and I do it without complaining.....but now I am an evil greedy non patriotic jerk if I complain that my taxes are increasing so I can supoport the victims of evil greedy rich people like myself....you know...the victims that lost all kinds of money becuase they tried to have their money make money for them and they lost the gamble.....

There. That was MY rant for the day.

 

[Oldandtired]

Did I miss quote you?

Yes, you said my boss, not his boss. I don't deal w/him as much.

True...yoiu did say your bosses boss.

But do not be fooled...Your bosses boss is more of your boss than your boss is.

 

[The Rabbi]

Money earned in excess of basic needs is saved and invested, providing capital for future businesses and employment across the board.

Well, in theory. Where have you been the past 8 years? That is not happening. IT NEVER HAPPENS. The people who profit are not reinvesting. They are not creating jobs. They are hoarding and hidinig the money. Nothing good came out of the Bush tax cuts to those that don't need them. Not one damn thing. There was not one iota of economic gain from them. If anything, I would say that they were extremely harmful to our economy - especially to the middle class.

Tax Burden Shifts to the Middle (washingtonpost.com)
Study: Bush Tax Cuts Cost More Than Twice As Much As Dems' Health-Care Bill | Crooks and Liars

The real question is, where have YOU been the last 8 years? Where were you when unemployment was 4%? Where were you when the stock market was hitting highs? Where were you when all the building was going on? Where were you when inflation was under 4% during all this?
Where do you suppose "rich people" go and "hide" all their money? Do you think they stuff it in mattresses?

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Fair is the freedom to derive your own income from your own choices

Freedom would be to keep as much of my income as a really wealthy person does.

 

[DiamondDave]

As for higher ups not sacrificing anything... THAT is truly laughable

Well, they got a cost of living raise and a bonus. We did not. So, what did they sacrifice... maybe their bonus was a little smaller than last year?

And of course they did nothing while you did everything.. their decisions and actions had no impact on business.. the investments they made were not at risk...

truly clueless

 

[Ravi]

No offense...but FICA and medicare are considered income tax as it is deducted from ones paycheck.

They are taxes on ones income.

Unless you are saying that you alkways talk in terms of dictionary definition.

But in business...when tax on income is discusses it is referring to all...including med, FICA, state local and federal.

Sorry...it is just the way it is.

We call those payroll taxes. Income tax is taxed on all income, payroll tax is only taxed on employment income...and in the case of SS only a portion of the income.

And for over 90% of Americans, FICA is on ALL of their income...the cap is 104K

We are apart with semantics...and I call us even when semantics come into play.

but the crux of what we are debating was your stetemnt that I am a liar or an idiot when I say I pay more than 35% in income taxes...I pay well into the 40's....and I do it without complaining.....but now I am an evil greedy non patriotic jerk if I complain that my taxes are increasing so I can supoport the victims of evil greedy rich people like myself....you know...the victims that lost all kinds of money becuase they tried to have their money make money for them and they lost the gamble.....

There. That was MY rant for the day.

If you pay well into 40% in federal taxes you ARE an idiot and need to restructure your business.

 

[DiamondDave]

Fair is the freedom to derive your own income from your own choices

Freedom would be to keep as much of my income as a really wealthy person does.

NO.. because what you spend your income on is your choice and freedom.. if you do not do it wisely.. or you do not make decisions wisely to earn more.. that is YOUR problem... not government's problem.. not my problem.. and not society's problem

 

[Oldandtired]

Fair is the freedom to derive your own income from your own choices

Freedom would be to keep as much of my income as a really wealthy person does.

Percentage wise? If you put your mid to it, you would keep the same as anyone else.

You would buy a home, not rent. (no you in particular....just peopole in general)
You would donate certain amounts.
You would buy tax deferreds

Rich or poor...we are all guided by the same tax laws.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

Where do you suppose "rich people" go and "hide" all their money? Do you think they stuff it in mattresses?

Offshore accounts, various sundry tax shelters, shell companies etc. There are lots of loopholes and hiding places for the wealthy. Heck, they've so far disclosed 100 billion dollars being hidden in Swiss bank accounts by wealthy Americans. That's BILLIONS. There is much more than that out there too.