So Mitt is in the same tax bracket as Buffet but Mitt is bad and Buffet is good

[Sallow]

The big issue is that the wealthy are playing the system that they created. A guy making $35,000 working in the sewers has no choice in how he gets paid. It is all taxed as income

The wealthy CEO can spell out which percent of his compensation will be paid as salary and which percent gets paid as a capital gain. Guess how much these guys take as salary?

You dont get paid "capital gains"...that is not how it works.

A CEO can not claim any capital gains if he does not own the company.

But if he owns the company, anything he takes out is income....most take 52K a year...1K weekly...and then monthly ditributions.

Those distributions? Taxed as regular income.

SOme leave the money in the company and when the company uses that money for growth, it is labelled as capital gains.....but that is not cash they take home.

Most capital gains that are being disputed are from personal investements......which started as taxable income before it was invested.

Um..no.

A CEO can defer compensation in numerous ways..most notably through stock options.

Steve Jobs, famously, got a dollar a year as a salary.

Any guess on how he died with over 50 billion dollars to leave to his heirs?

 

[rightwinger]

You are making some very interesting assumptions here.

where did I say that I agree with a 15% cap gains tax?

Since when was "tax" a reward system?

You seem stuck on envy....the fact that you mentioned that twit Hilton.....but thats irrelevant.

All I have been doing is trying to correct the spin of how things are being presented......I nowhere offered my senitments on whether or not 15% cap gains tax is appropriate.

I know the following for sure...

1) we have a deficit every year...and therefore our debt is growing beyond belief
2) we better do something about it
3)we cant turn to the poor and we cant turn to the middle class becuase both classes cant afford to bail us out
4) You sure arent goinbg to get the upper class to "agree" by telling the other classes that they (the upper class) are cheap and greedy

There is something known as rationalizing....and that takes me back to what I said earlier....

Maybe Obama should have said..

"the wealthiest Americans are a great example of what America can do for any Citizen when they put their mind to it. We should applaud their success and thank them for creating jobs in America and contirbuting the bulk of our federal revenue. Whereas they may feel some of the pain others are feeling, they certainly have the resources to continue as they were. We can nopt ask the less fortunate Americans to help with this deficit and debt problem. Sure we can cut spending, and those in congress are explorting ways to do so. IN the meantime we have no other plcae to turn than to the most fortunate Americans for help and I am sure, in the spirit of America, they will do so when asked..."
THAT is how a leader should discuss raising taxes on the wealthiest.

Not by saying they are cheap and greedy.....and they need to pay their fair share.

You must not be paying attention..but he's said this exact thing in several speeches.

In fact..I almost think you wrote the freakin speech..Jarhead.

lol...

Sorry...but when one day you say that and the next day you say the rich need to pay their fair share......well....it doesnt fly well.

He has yet been able to make me feel like he appreciates me....a successful business owner who has created many jobs for people over the years...made a nice living...paid my taxes.....hired landscapers.....contractors.....etc...

Nope...he calims I dont pay my fair share.

FYI....retired as of this past monday.....long story but glad I did it.....actually gave my company to my number one employee...she has been with me for years...told her to run with it. I could have waited a few years when the economy was moving again and sold it.....but the look in her eyes when I transferred the stock over to her was priceless....worth it to me.

Now I am watching my wife grow her company she started not too long ago...already hiring people....and I am helping her with it.

Good for you...congratulations

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Lets talk when Warren Buffet runs for elected office.

Why? The left on here have been trumpeting Buffets words for months now. Suddenly its invalid?

Invalid in the context you are putting it? Yeah.

He's not making policy. You'd have a alot more traction with someone like Jeffrey Immelt.

Fair enough I suppose but neither is Mitt at the moment. Both are just talking and one is considered greedy while the other a champion. When in fact the champion has the option to actually put his money where his mouth is and lead by example but chooses not to.

And I think everyone knows what a pos Jeff is. That's for another thread. Maybe one about China and jobs.

 

[Sallow]

You are making some very interesting assumptions here.

where did I say that I agree with a 15% cap gains tax?

Since when was "tax" a reward system?

You seem stuck on envy....the fact that you mentioned that twit Hilton.....but thats irrelevant.

All I have been doing is trying to correct the spin of how things are being presented......I nowhere offered my senitments on whether or not 15% cap gains tax is appropriate.

I know the following for sure...

1) we have a deficit every year...and therefore our debt is growing beyond belief
2) we better do something about it
3)we cant turn to the poor and we cant turn to the middle class becuase both classes cant afford to bail us out
4) You sure arent goinbg to get the upper class to "agree" by telling the other classes that they (the upper class) are cheap and greedy

There is something known as rationalizing....and that takes me back to what I said earlier....

Maybe Obama should have said..

"the wealthiest Americans are a great example of what America can do for any Citizen when they put their mind to it. We should applaud their success and thank them for creating jobs in America and contirbuting the bulk of our federal revenue. Whereas they may feel some of the pain others are feeling, they certainly have the resources to continue as they were. We can nopt ask the less fortunate Americans to help with this deficit and debt problem. Sure we can cut spending, and those in congress are explorting ways to do so. IN the meantime we have no other plcae to turn than to the most fortunate Americans for help and I am sure, in the spirit of America, they will do so when asked..."
THAT is how a leader should discuss raising taxes on the wealthiest.

Not by saying they are cheap and greedy.....and they need to pay their fair share.

You must not be paying attention..but he's said this exact thing in several speeches.

In fact..I almost think you wrote the freakin speech..Jarhead.

lol...

Sorry...but when one day you say that and the next day you say the rich need to pay their fair share......well....it doesnt fly well.

He has yet been able to make me feel like he appreciates me....a successful business owner who has created many jobs for people over the years...made a nice living...paid my taxes.....hired landscapers.....contractors.....etc...

Nope...he calims I dont pay my fair share.

FYI....retired as of this past monday.....long story but glad I did it.....actually gave my company to my number one employee...she has been with me for years...told her to run with it. I could have waited a few years when the economy was moving again and sold it.....but the look in her eyes when I transferred the stock over to her was priceless....worth it to me.

Now I am watching my wife grow her company she started not too long ago...already hiring people....and I am helping her with it.

He's said that exact thing you posted several times.

In any case..enjoy your retirement. But I have a feeling..it won't last long. You'll probably start something else up in a year or so.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Have you had any luck in your job hunt yet Sallow?

 

[Jarhead]

The big issue is that the wealthy are playing the system that they created. A guy making $35,000 working in the sewers has no choice in how he gets paid. It is all taxed as income

The wealthy CEO can spell out which percent of his compensation will be paid as salary and which percent gets paid as a capital gain. Guess how much these guys take as salary?

You dont get paid "capital gains"...that is not how it works.

A CEO can not claim any capital gains if he does not own the company.

But if he owns the company, anything he takes out is income....most take 52K a year...1K weekly...and then monthly ditributions.

Those distributions? Taxed as regular income.

SOme leave the money in the company and when the company uses that money for growth, it is labelled as capital gains.....but that is not cash they take home.

Most capital gains that are being disputed are from personal investements......which started as taxable income before it was invested.

Let's put it this way

Instead of being paid salary, he gets paid in stock and stock options that he can defer until he needs them. Any increase in those stocks gets taxed as a capital gain

yes...exactly.....but that is not the way you originally presented it.

Many execs of a PUBLIC COMPANY play the "tax deferred" game....but the original income, when they take it out is taxed as regular income...the earnings on that money....ROI if you will...is taxed at 15%....but not the original money...that is taxed as regular income.

If you invest in a stock and it earns money....you are taxed 15% on the earnings....but the original investment was income that was already taxed....unless it was put into a tax deferred account like a 401(k)

 

[Jarhead]

You must not be paying attention..but he's said this exact thing in several speeches.

In fact..I almost think you wrote the freakin speech..Jarhead.

lol...

Sorry...but when one day you say that and the next day you say the rich need to pay their fair share......well....it doesnt fly well.

He has yet been able to make me feel like he appreciates me....a successful business owner who has created many jobs for people over the years...made a nice living...paid my taxes.....hired landscapers.....contractors.....etc...

Nope...he calims I dont pay my fair share.

FYI....retired as of this past monday.....long story but glad I did it.....actually gave my company to my number one employee...she has been with me for years...told her to run with it. I could have waited a few years when the economy was moving again and sold it.....but the look in her eyes when I transferred the stock over to her was priceless....worth it to me.

Now I am watching my wife grow her company she started not too long ago...already hiring people....and I am helping her with it.

He's said that exact thing you posted several times.

In any case..enjoy your retirement. But I have a feeling..it won't last long. You'll probably start something else up in a year or so.

well...I sort of already did. My wife's venture requires people all over the country to represent her firm and be present at contract signings....so I am creating the database of those people and coordinating the activity....

 

[NYcarbineer]

Funny how things come full circle. They both pay the same rate basically but since Buffet cries about it he gets a pass? Have I got this right? Can I rob my neighbor as long as I condemn it while I do it?

Lets talk when Warren Buffet runs for elected office.

Why? The left on here have been trumpeting Buffets words for months now. Suddenly its invalid?

Romney wants his own tax rates to be even lower. Does Buffett?

 

[Chris]

Glad you agree that Mitt is bad.

 

[Jarhead]

The big issue is that the wealthy are playing the system that they created. A guy making $35,000 working in the sewers has no choice in how he gets paid. It is all taxed as income

The wealthy CEO can spell out which percent of his compensation will be paid as salary and which percent gets paid as a capital gain. Guess how much these guys take as salary?

You dont get paid "capital gains"...that is not how it works.

A CEO can not claim any capital gains if he does not own the company.

But if he owns the company, anything he takes out is income....most take 52K a year...1K weekly...and then monthly ditributions.

Those distributions? Taxed as regular income.

SOme leave the money in the company and when the company uses that money for growth, it is labelled as capital gains.....but that is not cash they take home.

Most capital gains that are being disputed are from personal investements......which started as taxable income before it was invested.

Um..no.

A CEO can defer compensation in numerous ways..most notably through stock options.

Steve Jobs, famously, got a dollar a year as a salary.

Any guess on how he died with over 50 billion dollars to leave to his heirs?

defer compensation does not mean that compensation becomes capital gains...it will create capital gains....but the original compensation is still regulkar income that has been deferred to a later time...and when it is liquidated, it is taxed as regular income. What it earns is taxed as capital gains.

Steve Jobs simply deferred all of his income...and he bought stock with it that skyrocketed.

When that income was liquidated, he had to pay full regular income tax on it.

The growth money was taxed as cap gains.

 

[MikeK]

And don't give me that "he says they should be raised" bullshit. Anyone can use talking points. [...]

It's not bullshit. It is in fact the single substantive factor that distinguishes Buffett from Romney. Buffett has taken an important step. He has declared his position. If Romney would do the same they would be on an equal plane. And if the Congress moved to increase the upper level tax rate neither of them could legitimately complain about it. But as it is Buffett stands alone in his declaration of tax inequity.

 

[Jarhead]

Lets talk when Warren Buffet runs for elected office.

Why? The left on here have been trumpeting Buffets words for months now. Suddenly its invalid?

Romney wants his own tax rates to be even lower. Does Buffett?

Bet he does if it is proven that a lower tax rate to him would help the efconomy, balance the budget and eat away at the debt.

No one...even Buffet...porefers to pay mnore in taxes if he doesnt have to.

For if he did.....he would not be paying 15% on his cap gains....he would be poaying 38%.

But he pays as little as the law allows him to pay.

Sure....he can say whatever makes him feel good....but the bottom line...he will always pay the least allowed by law.

 

[Sallow]

Why? The left on here have been trumpeting Buffets words for months now. Suddenly its invalid?

Invalid in the context you are putting it? Yeah.

He's not making policy. You'd have a alot more traction with someone like Jeffrey Immelt.

Fair enough I suppose but neither is Mitt at the moment. Both are just talking and one is considered greedy while the other a champion. When in fact the champion has the option to actually put his money where his mouth is and lead by example but chooses not to.

And I think everyone knows what a pos Jeff is. That's for another thread. Maybe one about China and jobs.

Personally, I still think the comparison is off. It's a little like comparing Audey Murphy with Al Capone and saying "They both killed people, why is one a hero and the other a gangster" (It's an extreme example to illustrate a point).

Romney was a corporate raider. That's a special kind of venture capitalist who takes companies and parses them out for profit. Buffet created a fund based on his market savvy of equities. Are both greedy? Well yeah. But for the most part, Buffet wasn't involved in the destruction of viable corporations for his wealth. And he's a huge philanthropist.

 

[Sallow]

lol...

Sorry...but when one day you say that and the next day you say the rich need to pay their fair share......well....it doesnt fly well.

He has yet been able to make me feel like he appreciates me....a successful business owner who has created many jobs for people over the years...made a nice living...paid my taxes.....hired landscapers.....contractors.....etc...

Nope...he calims I dont pay my fair share.

FYI....retired as of this past monday.....long story but glad I did it.....actually gave my company to my number one employee...she has been with me for years...told her to run with it. I could have waited a few years when the economy was moving again and sold it.....but the look in her eyes when I transferred the stock over to her was priceless....worth it to me.

Now I am watching my wife grow her company she started not too long ago...already hiring people....and I am helping her with it.

He's said that exact thing you posted several times.

In any case..enjoy your retirement. But I have a feeling..it won't last long. You'll probably start something else up in a year or so.

well...I sort of already did. My wife's venture requires people all over the country to represent her firm and be present at contract signings....so I am creating the database of those people and coordinating the activity....

Man..can I read people or what?

 

[Truthseeker420]

Funny how things come full circle. They both pay the same rate basically but since Buffet cries about it he gets a pass? Have I got this right? Can I rob my neighbor as long as I condemn it while I do it?

gets a pass from what?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Funny how things come full circle. They both pay the same rate basically but since Buffet cries about it he gets a pass? Have I got this right? Can I rob my neighbor as long as I condemn it while I do it?

gets a pass from what?

The demonization that Mitt is now receiving. Turn on the radio, look on the web, look at the TV. They pay the same amount yet NOTHING MORE THAN RHETORIC separates how they are perceived by the LEFT. They should be judged on their ACTIONS not their words and thus far they have both done the same things at tax time. Just like all of us do.

 

[Sallow]

Funny how things come full circle. They both pay the same rate basically but since Buffet cries about it he gets a pass? Have I got this right? Can I rob my neighbor as long as I condemn it while I do it?

gets a pass from what?

The demonization that Mitt is now receiving. Turn on the radio, look on the web, look at the TV. They pay the same amount yet NOTHING MORE THAN RHETORIC separates how they are perceived by the LEFT. They should be judged on their ACTIONS not their words and thus far they have both done the same things at tax time. Just like all of us do.

For Pete's sake.

Mitt's running for President.

And he's no angel when it comes to "demonizing" his opponents.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

ABC is now going to do an investigation into Romneys income and taxes.

Seriously? Based on what? Nothing but the desire to destroy and slander. Timmy didn't pay his taxes and no big investigation. Immelts company made billions in profit and paid NOTHING, yet no investigation.

"for Petes sake" Give me a fucking break.

 

[Zander]

Buffet is a big fat hypocrite. He can pay more taxes if he wants to pay more- the treasury will accept his check. He needs to lead by example, or shut the fuck up.

Personally, I minimize my taxes at every opportunity possible and in every legally available way. I have no remorse or guilt about it. The government spends too much, they don't need more money, they need to cut spending.

Not paying your taxes isn't patriotic. If anything, it's ANTI-PATRIOTIC. It's putting YOUR PERSONAL GREED ahead of the prosperity of your country. Is that what George Washington did?

Don't be surprised if one day your country treats you same way you want to treat it.

Get off your high horse bub. I pay my taxes. I do everything in my power to LEGALLY minimize them. Thanks for playing!

 

[Care4all]

i try to pay the least amount in taxes that i can, taking legal measures....as everyone does i am pretty certain!

but what i do owe or end up paying in taxes, i have no qualms over...never have....my issue with taxes is our property taxes paid, each and every year....to the point that my property taxes paid on my home will be more than what I paid for the home when all said and done....And, we were never able to have kids so we never have nor will use the school system that property taxes pay for....but irregardless of that, property taxes year after year after year, after year, on the same item that you purchased once is a Gosh awful tax imho.....