Slavery/Racism: Some Questions

[rightwinger]

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

How true...

Making people suffer is the only way to get them out of poverty

And there spells the problem with a liberal-progressive mind.
You only think in absolutes.
If you have a problem with the poor getting free stuff - then you hate poor people and want them to die.
For Christ sake - look at Sallow's comment - same thing. I disagree - and I am to be compared to the Russian Czars, Mao and French aristocracy.

Sallows comment relates to the callous treatment of the poor and it's consequences

There is no example in history where the poor are better off by removing assistance.

 

[daveman]

I believe the phrase au currant is 'not authentically black'....

....or some relationship-term beginning with 'uncle' or 'aunt'...

Well, since I'm not a white liberal, I don't feel qualified to speak for the black community.

 

[rightwinger]

You either mean the specific people who held those positions during slavery, or you mean them as representatives of the people of the United States, which includes black Americans and those (many) whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right? Which is it?

And when did the discussion turn from slavery to "despicable treatment"? You'd be hard pressed to find any group of people who haven't come in for "despicable treatment" at one point or another. Do you propose every American apologizing to every other American?

Our despicable treatment of blacks continued for a hundred years after the end of slavery. "We" as a nation are responsible for it. It is part of who the United States is. It was officially tolerated and enforced by our elected government.

There are levels of despicable treatment endured by others. Native Americans come to mind.....and yes, they are due an apology to. An acknowledgment that the way our government treated them was wrong

1. "Our despicable treatment of blacks..."
Speaking for yourself, I'm sure...


2. How about you look deeply into the matter....I'm certain you'll reach the conclusion that the hand-wringing and hugging of our black neighbors is simply a matter of self-preservation by the Democrat-Liberal-Left-progressives, for the following reason:

"...what would happen if a smaller percentage of blacks turned out:

- At 90 percent black turn-out, Wisconsin’s 10 electoral votes slide into the GOP column.

- At 75 percent black turn-out, Pennsylvania’s 21 electoral votes go Republican.

- At 70 percent Michigan’s 17 electoral votes turn from blue to red.

- At 50 percent the GOP collects Delawre’s three electoral votes.

I don’t know what a realistic number to project is for the effects of angry black apathy, but I’ll stop at 50 percent. It may be that going as low as 75 percent is unrealistic. Most likely it’s impossible to say. (And this doesn’t take into account things like congressional districts where black voters make the margin of difference.)"
Do Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet


But what exactly would that mean? In how many states do black voters make the difference? I ran some rough numbers over at Robert Emmet -- check them out. Depending on how much of a drop-off you assume, it could cost the Democrats 10 to 76 electoral votes.
Robert Schlesinger: The Democrats and the Black Vote

Sour grapes by the Republicans..

They consciously drove away the black vote to court the southern extremist vote. It worked in turning the Southern states red, but permanently lost them the black vote

 

[daveman]

Letting daveman be your straight man now.....

What ever happened to Political Chic the rightwing intellectual?

You really hate it when leftwing bullshit is exposed, don't you?

Boy, are YOU in the wrong place.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How true...

Making people suffer is the only way to get them out of poverty

And there spells the problem with a liberal-progressive mind.
You only think in absolutes.
If you have a problem with the poor getting free stuff - then you hate poor people and want them to die.
For Christ sake - look at Sallow's comment - same thing. I disagree - and I am to be compared to the Russian Czars, Mao and French aristocracy.

Sallows comment relates to the callous treatment of the poor and it's consequences

There is no example in history where the poor are better off by removing assistance.

1. "Stand erect or be made to stand erect."
attributed to Marcus Aurelius


2. You sure underestimate the human spirit...
....another hallmark of the Left.


3. For the Left, government is not merely one of the ways in which humanity may order its affairs, (the others being religion and the free market), but it is the only way.

a. Government is the religion of the Left, and its primary motive is to expand equality. For that reason it must be expanded, and empowered to address any and all aspects of life.

b. Such was the view of FDR. And, based on this view, he expanded a bad economic downturn into one of the worst depressions in history.

4. FDR not only saddled the nation with social programs, but with the deeper, unconscious legacy of belief in social programs- irrespective of their effectiveness. The rule became: If anything called a ‘social program’ fails, expand it!

a. This is the meaning of ‘social justice:’ action by the state in the name of justice, which means complete protection and immunity from review.
Mamet, Op.Cit. chapter 18.

 

[Salt Jones]

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicans and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

And how many of them voted for Barack Obama?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Our despicable treatment of blacks continued for a hundred years after the end of slavery. "We" as a nation are responsible for it. It is part of who the United States is. It was officially tolerated and enforced by our elected government.

There are levels of despicable treatment endured by others. Native Americans come to mind.....and yes, they are due an apology to. An acknowledgment that the way our government treated them was wrong

1. "Our despicable treatment of blacks..."
Speaking for yourself, I'm sure...


2. How about you look deeply into the matter....I'm certain you'll reach the conclusion that the hand-wringing and hugging of our black neighbors is simply a matter of self-preservation by the Democrat-Liberal-Left-progressives, for the following reason:

"...what would happen if a smaller percentage of blacks turned out:

- At 90 percent black turn-out, Wisconsin’s 10 electoral votes slide into the GOP column.

- At 75 percent black turn-out, Pennsylvania’s 21 electoral votes go Republican.

- At 70 percent Michigan’s 17 electoral votes turn from blue to red.

- At 50 percent the GOP collects Delawre’s three electoral votes.

I don’t know what a realistic number to project is for the effects of angry black apathy, but I’ll stop at 50 percent. It may be that going as low as 75 percent is unrealistic. Most likely it’s impossible to say. (And this doesn’t take into account things like congressional districts where black voters make the margin of difference.)"
Do Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet


But what exactly would that mean? In how many states do black voters make the difference? I ran some rough numbers over at Robert Emmet -- check them out. Depending on how much of a drop-off you assume, it could cost the Democrats 10 to 76 electoral votes.
Robert Schlesinger: The Democrats and the Black Vote

Sour grapes by the Republicans..

They consciously drove away the black vote to court the southern extremist vote. It worked in turning the Southern states red, but permanently lost them the black vote

Don't pretend, just to make a point...you know the Democrat plan propounded by LBJ....


1. Prior to 1957, Johnson “had never supported civil rights legislation- any civil rights legislation. In the Senate and House alike, his record was an unbroken one of votes against every civil rights bill that had ever come to a vote: against voting rights bills; against bills that would have struck at job discrimination and at segregation in other areas of American life; even against bills that would have protected blacks from lynching.” Robert A. Caro, “Master of the Senate: The Years of Lyndon Johnson, vol.3,” p. xv . He would use progressive’s economics in this strategy.

2. LBJ fit the progressive mold perfectly, and he wanted to continue FDR’s advances toward a cradle-to-grave European style government. The theater of endeavor was not as much economic equality, but racial, ... Historical Tables | The White House).

a. Outside of the obvious beneficiaries of his policies, low income families and African-Americans, he knew how to entice the support of powerful forces and special interest groups. For example, his affordable housing programs found natural allies in builders, bankers and real estate agents.

b. His policies, though, were more polemics than philanthropies. His racial attitudes are suggested by his biographer, Robert Dallek, who quotes him defending the Supreme Court appointment of the very well-known Thurgood Marshall, rather than a black judge less identified with the civil rights cause, by saying to a staff member, "Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he's a ******." On the Way With L.B.J. - NYTimes.com

 

[daveman]

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

How true...

Making people suffer is the only way to get them out of poverty

And there spells the problem with a liberal-progressive mind.
You only think in absolutes.
If you have a problem with the poor getting free stuff - then you hate poor people and want them to die.
For Christ sake - look at Sallow's comment - same thing. I disagree - and I am to be compared to the Russian Czars, Mao and French aristocracy.

Just symptomatic of the left's black-and-white binary thinking. You know, what they accuse the right of.

 

[Salt Jones]

Some black Republicasn and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

Black conservatives?

They're not black enough.

Right, white USMB lefties?

I believe the phrase au currant is 'not authentically black'....

....or some relationship-term beginning with 'uncle' or 'aunt'...

HERMAN CAIN: OBAMA HAS ‘NEVER BEEN A PART OF THE BLACK EXPERIENCE IN AMERICA’.

Herman Cain: Obama Has

Really?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicans and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

And how many of them voted for Barack Obama?

There were a number who were, understandably, proud of Obama for the same reason you are, Faulty.


It will be interesting to see if he gets the same percent of the black vote this time, having proven to be an embarrassment to blacks, Democrats, Liberals, and everyone else.

 

[Salt Jones]

Some black Republicans and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

And how many of them voted for Barack Obama?

There were a number who were, understandably, proud of Obama for the same reason you are, Faulty.


It will be interesting to see if he gets the same percent of the black vote this time, having proven to be an embarrassment to blacks, Democrats, Liberals, and everyone else.

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

 

[rightwinger]

1. "Our despicable treatment of blacks..."
Speaking for yourself, I'm sure...


2. How about you look deeply into the matter....I'm certain you'll reach the conclusion that the hand-wringing and hugging of our black neighbors is simply a matter of self-preservation by the Democrat-Liberal-Left-progressives, for the following reason:

"...what would happen if a smaller percentage of blacks turned out:

- At 90 percent black turn-out, Wisconsin’s 10 electoral votes slide into the GOP column.

- At 75 percent black turn-out, Pennsylvania’s 21 electoral votes go Republican.

- At 70 percent Michigan’s 17 electoral votes turn from blue to red.

- At 50 percent the GOP collects Delawre’s three electoral votes.

I don’t know what a realistic number to project is for the effects of angry black apathy, but I’ll stop at 50 percent. It may be that going as low as 75 percent is unrealistic. Most likely it’s impossible to say. (And this doesn’t take into account things like congressional districts where black voters make the margin of difference.)"
Do Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet


But what exactly would that mean? In how many states do black voters make the difference? I ran some rough numbers over at Robert Emmet -- check them out. Depending on how much of a drop-off you assume, it could cost the Democrats 10 to 76 electoral votes.
Robert Schlesinger: The Democrats and the Black Vote

Sour grapes by the Republicans..

They consciously drove away the black vote to court the southern extremist vote. It worked in turning the Southern states red, but permanently lost them the black vote

Don't pretend, just to make a point...you know the Democrat plan propounded by LBJ....


1. Prior to 1957, Johnson “had never supported civil rights legislation- any civil rights legislation. In the Senate and House alike, his record was an unbroken one of votes against every civil rights bill that had ever come to a vote: against voting rights bills; against bills that would have struck at job discrimination and at segregation in other areas of American life; even against bills that would have protected blacks from lynching.” Robert A. Caro, “Master of the Senate: The Years of Lyndon Johnson, vol.3,” p. xv . He would use progressive’s economics in this strategy.

2. LBJ fit the progressive mold perfectly, and he wanted to continue FDR’s advances toward a cradle-to-grave European style government. The theater of endeavor was not as much economic equality, but racial, ... Historical Tables | The White House).

a. Outside of the obvious beneficiaries of his policies, low income families and African-Americans, he knew how to entice the support of powerful forces and special interest groups. For example, his affordable housing programs found natural allies in builders, bankers and real estate agents.

b. His policies, though, were more polemics than philanthropies. His racial attitudes are suggested by his biographer, Robert Dallek, who quotes him defending the Supreme Court appointment of the very well-known Thurgood Marshall, rather than a black judge less identified with the civil rights cause, by saying to a staff member, "Son, when I appoint a ****** to the court, I want everyone to know he's a ******." On the Way With L.B.J. - NYTimes.com

The democrats made a conscious trade off.

Up until the 60s, they made a deal with the devil in accommodating racist southern democrats in exchange for a larger Democrat constituency. That constituency enabled the Democrats to control Congress for 40 years.

LBJ was raised in 1920s racist Texas. Calling blacks ******* came with the territory. He was also a shrewd politician. LBJ went against his racist southern roots to steamroll civil rights legislation through Congress

It ended up costing Democrats their once solid south, which the Republicans quickly pounced on

 

[rightwinger]

Some black Republicans and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

And how many of them voted for Barack Obama?

There were a number who were, understandably, proud of Obama for the same reason you are, Faulty.


It will be interesting to see if he gets the same percent of the black vote this time, having proven to be an embarrassment to blacks, Democrats, Liberals, and everyone else.

Do you really think blacks are embarrassed by President Obama?

You are usually better than this blatant regurgitation of rightwing propaganda

 

[alan1]

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

Some of us really don't care that he is half-white (not black), We don't choose presidents based upon the color of their skin nor choose to admire or not admire somebody based upon the melanin content in their skin.
It sounds as if you would think differently about him if he were an albino.

 

[daveman]

Do you really think blacks are embarrassed by President Obama?

Dunno. What do you, a white liberal, dictate as the official position of Black America?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And how many of them voted for Barack Obama?

There were a number who were, understandably, proud of Obama for the same reason you are, Faulty.


It will be interesting to see if he gets the same percent of the black vote this time, having proven to be an embarrassment to blacks, Democrats, Liberals, and everyone else.

Do you really think blacks are embarrassed by President Obama?

You are usually better than this blatant regurgitation of rightwing propaganda

Why don't you ask some of the folks on that list....

 

[daveman]

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

Some of us really don't care that he is half-white (not black), We don't choose presidents based upon the color of their skin nor choose to admire or not admire somebody based upon the melanin content in their skin.
It sounds as if you would think differently about him if he were an albino.

Looks like Dr. King's dream is nowhere near fruition. It keeps getting sabotaged by his fellow blacks.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

Some of us really don't care that he is half-white (not black), We don't choose presidents based upon the color of their skin nor choose to admire or not admire somebody based upon the melanin content in their skin.
It sounds as if you would think differently about him if he were an albino.

And some of us weren't raised as second class citizens

 

[Salt Jones]

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

Some of us really don't care that he is half-white (not black), We don't choose presidents based upon the color of their skin nor choose to admire or not admire somebody based upon the melanin content in their skin.
It sounds as if you would think differently about him if he were an albino.

I have a first cousin who is Albino and she is still black.
Study your topic.

 

[Salt Jones]

I'm glad Obama won, because the first president my 5 year old grandson ever recognized and is able to name is a black man. You people have absolutely no clue what that means to the black community.

He will get an even larger number of black voters and the percentage will be 98%, once again. He will also get a larger percentage of Latino votes and get over 85% of their vote.

Some of us really don't care that he is half-white (not black), We don't choose presidents based upon the color of their skin nor choose to admire or not admire somebody based upon the melanin content in their skin.
It sounds as if you would think differently about him if he were an albino.

Looks like Dr. King's dream is nowhere near fruition. It keeps getting sabotaged by his fellow blacks.

Fuck Dr. King's dream. How'd that work for him?