Slavery/Racism: Some Questions

[Rozman]

Liberals should apologize for being air heads. Several times a day.

That's a good one...

Libruls are STOOPID

heh heh you spelled Stooupid wrong....
what a dumd ass !

 

[Unkotare]

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Your initial quote didn't mention political parties. Are you trying to change the subject because you can see the dead end to your BS comments?

No, not at all

I was talking about Republicans the whole time......just didn't want to hurt your feelings

Be careful swerving like that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims.

And there are a significant number who have not moved away from racial animosity toward blacks, they’ve simply added Mexicans, gays, and Muslims to their list of hate.

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.

And yet another example of ignorance from the right.

‘Affirmative action’ is Constitutional provided its tailored in such a way as to be comprehensive with regard to selection criteria, where race is not the sole deciding factor. Such a system developed and used by a business, government agency, or school is appropriate in the hiring entity’s desire to achieve racial diversity. See: GRUTTER V. BOLLINGER

 

[Unkotare]

That is how "we" speak of our country

That would include black Americans, would it not? It would also include those whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right?

The "we" was the US, State and local governments as well as the courts who not only tolerated but enforced the despicable treatment of blacks right up till the 1960s

You either mean the specific people who held those positions during slavery, or you mean them as representatives of the people of the United States, which includes black Americans and those (many) whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right? Which is it?

And when did the discussion turn from slavery to "despicable treatment"? You'd be hard pressed to find any group of people who haven't come in for "despicable treatment" at one point or another. Do you propose every American apologizing to every other American?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

Read the book or watch the PBS special "Slavery by another name", study Jim Crow laws and how long they lasted, then get back to me with your "questions".

Wouldn't it be a more efficacious use of my time to find someone who might be able to answer questions....any questions?

You've probably heard this phrase so very many times: Thanks for the offer, but no thank you.

 

[Unkotare]

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims.

And there are a significant number who have not moved away from racial animosity toward blacks, they’ve simply added Mexicans, gays, and Muslims to their list of hate.

And a far, far more significant number who bear no "animosity" based on the categories implied above but who are invariably accused of "hate" for said groups if they are opposed to illegal immigration, gay marriage, terrorism, or the policies of a particular politician who happens to be half black.

 

[PoliticalChic]

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims.

And there are a significant number who have not moved away from racial animosity toward blacks, they’ve simply added Mexicans, gays, and Muslims to their list of hate.

And a far, far more significant number who bear no "animosity" based on the categories implied above but who are invariably accused of "hate" for said groups if they are opposed to illegal immigration, gay marriage, terrorism, or the policies of a particular politician who happens to be half black.

They have to find a way to convince themselves that they hold the keys to the kingdom, that they are somehow better than others...

....and the slander of Americans is never far from their lips.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicans and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

 

[rightwinger]

That would include black Americans, would it not? It would also include those whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right?

The "we" was the US, State and local governments as well as the courts who not only tolerated but enforced the despicable treatment of blacks right up till the 1960s

You either mean the specific people who held those positions during slavery, or you mean them as representatives of the people of the United States, which includes black Americans and those (many) whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right? Which is it?

And when did the discussion turn from slavery to "despicable treatment"? You'd be hard pressed to find any group of people who haven't come in for "despicable treatment" at one point or another. Do you propose every American apologizing to every other American?

Our despicable treatment of blacks continued for a hundred years after the end of slavery. "We" as a nation are responsible for it. It is part of who the United States is. It was officially tolerated and enforced by our elected government.

There are levels of despicable treatment endured by others. Native Americans come to mind.....and yes, they are due an apology to. An acknowledgment that the way our government treated them was wrong

 

[rightwinger]

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicasn and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

Wow, I am impressed......you managed to name every one. You left off Colin Powell, but I guess you guys kicked him out

However, I will not try to list the 95% of blacks who will never vote Republican

 

[daveman]

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicasn and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

Black conservatives?

They're not black enough.

Right, white USMB lefties?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

 

[rightwinger]

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

How true...

Making people suffer is the only way to get them out of poverty

 

[Sallow]

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

Well it's been tried before. Like with the Tsars of Russia, the Aristocracy in France and in the Kingdoms of China.

How'd that turn out?

 

[alan1]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest mistake this country has ever made was bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not load them all up on a ship and return them to Africa once they were freed.

While this proposed solution to the slavery issue will appeal to many Americans I'm sure it will offend many others. But if the proposal to return the slaves to Africa were modified by providing every returned slave with a monetary settlement sufficient to ensure a comfortable and happy life in his/her native land, i.e. a de facto reparation, would that make the proposal more acceptable to those originally opposed to it?

Have you folks ever heard of Liberia ?
Currently about 85% of the population lives below the international poverty line.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Some black Republicasn and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

Black conservatives?

They're not black enough.

Right, white USMB lefties?

I believe the phrase au currant is 'not authentically black'....

....or some relationship-term beginning with 'uncle' or 'aunt'...

 

[PoliticalChic]

The "we" was the US, State and local governments as well as the courts who not only tolerated but enforced the despicable treatment of blacks right up till the 1960s

You either mean the specific people who held those positions during slavery, or you mean them as representatives of the people of the United States, which includes black Americans and those (many) whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right? Which is it?

And when did the discussion turn from slavery to "despicable treatment"? You'd be hard pressed to find any group of people who haven't come in for "despicable treatment" at one point or another. Do you propose every American apologizing to every other American?

Our despicable treatment of blacks continued for a hundred years after the end of slavery. "We" as a nation are responsible for it. It is part of who the United States is. It was officially tolerated and enforced by our elected government.

There are levels of despicable treatment endured by others. Native Americans come to mind.....and yes, they are due an apology to. An acknowledgment that the way our government treated them was wrong

1. "Our despicable treatment of blacks..."
Speaking for yourself, I'm sure...


2. How about you look deeply into the matter....I'm certain you'll reach the conclusion that the hand-wringing and hugging of our black neighbors is simply a matter of self-preservation by the Democrat-Liberal-Left-progressives, for the following reason:

"...what would happen if a smaller percentage of blacks turned out:

- At 90 percent black turn-out, Wisconsin’s 10 electoral votes slide into the GOP column.

- At 75 percent black turn-out, Pennsylvania’s 21 electoral votes go Republican.

- At 70 percent Michigan’s 17 electoral votes turn from blue to red.

- At 50 percent the GOP collects Delawre’s three electoral votes.

I don’t know what a realistic number to project is for the effects of angry black apathy, but I’ll stop at 50 percent. It may be that going as low as 75 percent is unrealistic. Most likely it’s impossible to say. (And this doesn’t take into account things like congressional districts where black voters make the margin of difference.)"
Do Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet Democrats need the black vote? | RobertEmmet


But what exactly would that mean? In how many states do black voters make the difference? I ran some rough numbers over at Robert Emmet -- check them out. Depending on how much of a drop-off you assume, it could cost the Democrats 10 to 76 electoral votes.
Robert Schlesinger: The Democrats and the Black Vote

 

[rightwinger]

Some black Republicasn and/or conservatives....

1. Amy Holmes
2. Walter Williams
3. Thomas Sowell
4. Herman Cain
5. Reihan Salam
6. Allen West
7. J.C. Watts,
8. Condoleezza Rice,
9. Clarence Thomas
10. Michael Steele
11. Florida's Lieutenant Governor Jennifer Carroll
12. Shelby Steele,
13. Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson
14. Ward Connerly
15. Glenn Loury,
16. Gary Franks,
17. Deroy Murdock,
18. Robert Woodson
19. Roosevelt Grier
20. Marva Collins
21. Joe Clark,
22. Roy Innis
23. Tony Brown,
24. Ken Blackwell
25. Larry Elder
26. Star Parker
27. Armstrong Williams
28. John McWhorter
29. Don King
30. James Earl Jones
31. Karl Malone
32. LL Cool J
33. The Rock
34. 50 Cent
35. Tim Scott
36. Deneen Borelli
37. Lee Hawkins

Black conservatives?

They're not black enough.

Right, white USMB lefties?

I believe the phrase au currant is 'not authentically black'....

....or some relationship-term beginning with 'uncle' or 'aunt'...

Letting daveman be your straight man now.....

What ever happened to Political Chic the rightwing intellectual?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Black conservatives?

They're not black enough.

Right, white USMB lefties?

I believe the phrase au currant is 'not authentically black'....

....or some relationship-term beginning with 'uncle' or 'aunt'...

Letting daveman be your straight man now.....

What ever happened to Political Chic the rightwing intellectual?

Just watch out, wingy....I don’t have a license to kill, but I do have a learners’ permit.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Holy hell...you actually said something that makes sense TWICE in one thread!!
Once again - you are right here. Long term hand outs with little to no strings attached indeed turns people from poor to dependent on that hand out. As history all over the world has shown - money/shelter etc. etc. given to someone without expected return will always lead to that person not being able to live without it.

You know winger....keep it up and you might earn some respect around here. Good posting.

How true...

Making people suffer is the only way to get them out of poverty

And there spells the problem with a liberal-progressive mind.
You only think in absolutes.
If you have a problem with the poor getting free stuff - then you hate poor people and want them to die.
For Christ sake - look at Sallow's comment - same thing. I disagree - and I am to be compared to the Russian Czars, Mao and French aristocracy.