Slavery/Racism: Some Questions

[rightwinger]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

 

[Unkotare]

Liberals are pragmatists, unlike conservatives they disdain dogma and reactionaryism.

Liberals are only interested in solutions that work, regardless that solution’s political camp of origin.

Everyone already knew you were a mindless, partisan shill. There's no need to keep making the point over and over.

 

[Unkotare]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

 

[Unkotare]

[

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Liberals want to make them suffer just enough to keep voting democrat.

 

[daveman]

Looks to me like your entire argument rests on this statement. At least, I didn't see anything else that wasn't about the subject of an "apology."

As applied to most "liberals," this statement is false. Most liberals see an apology as an empty gesture and couldn't care less. There are, of course, one or two exceptions, but that is going to be true of any broad claim. (Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

On the subject of slavery or racism, do you have anything to say that has nothing to do with the idea of apology? Because that's much ado about nothing, frankly.

Correct.

Liberals are pragmatists, unlike conservatives they disdain dogma and reactionaryism.

Liberals are only interested in solutions that work, regardless that solution’s political camp of origin.

Really? Then why are so many bills from the GOP-controlled house sitting on Harry Reid's desk?

You're not interested in solutions that work. You're interested in solutions that get you votes. Party before country, every time.

Conservatives adhere blindly to dogma – the proof of that can be found in the threads of this very forum: ‘big government’ is ‘bad,’ taxes are ’bad,’ ‘liberals’ are ‘bad.’

As opposed to liberals saying "big government is good", "taxes are good", and "liberals are pure goodness"?

Please.

As for the OP, it’s mostly gibberish, ignorance, and idiocy.

Leftists have a remarkable capacity for self-delusion.

 

[newpolitics]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

You brought the Chris rock thread here... you are obsessed. Here's a hint PC. Be yourself. Don't feel the need to act tough around guys. You come off as needlessly hard-edged without any rhyme or reason. I understand the pressures of living in a male-dominated society, but you are over-compensating. The same goes for CaliforniaGirl, she's just much better at talking shit than you. Just some objective observation to help you out in life, as I am willing to be this carries over into your personal life. mmmkay pumpkin?

 

[Unkotare]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

You brought the Chris rock thread here... you are obsessed. Here's a hint PC. Be yourself. Don't feel the need to act tough around guys. You come off as needlessly hard-edged without any rhyme or reason. I understand the pressures of living in a male-dominated society, but you are over-compensating. The same goes for CaliforniaGirl, she's just much better at talking shit than you. Just some objective observation to help you out in life, as I am willing to be this carries over into your personal life. mmmkay pumpkin?

NO, humiliating the shit out of you does not come across as needlessly hard-edged. Don't feel too bad, you may grow some new balls one day.

 

[Salt Jones]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

Read the book or watch the PBS special "Slavery by another name", study Jim Crow laws and how long they lasted, then get back to me with your "questions".

 

[newpolitics]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

You brought the Chris rock thread here... you are obsessed. Here's a hint PC. Be yourself. Don't feel the need to act tough around guys. You come off as needlessly hard-edged without any rhyme or reason. I understand the pressures of living in a male-dominated society, but you are over-compensating. The same goes for CaliforniaGirl, she's just much better at talking shit than you. Just some objective observation to help you out in life, as I am willing to be this carries over into your personal life. mmmkay pumpkin?

NO, humiliating the shit out of you does not come across as needlessly hard-edged. Don't feel too bad, you may grow some new balls one day.

who are you, and why are you biting at my heels? stop being an asshole.

 

[rightwinger]

[

LOL....yea, yea...we have heard it all before

Helping poor people only makes them lazy. We need to make them suffer more so they pick themselves up from their bootstraps

Liberals want to make them suffer just enough to keep voting democrat.

conservatives just like for them to suffer period

 

[rightwinger]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

 

[Peach]

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them
****************************************************
Appropriate. Thank you RW.

 

[PoliticalChic]

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them
****************************************************
Appropriate. Thank you RW.

Those of the Liberal persuasion repeat same ad nauseum,

Perseveration is often indicia of psychological difficulty...


see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1284439/pdf/12858991.pdf

 

[Unkotare]

You brought the Chris rock thread here... you are obsessed. Here's a hint PC. Be yourself. Don't feel the need to act tough around guys. You come off as needlessly hard-edged without any rhyme or reason. I understand the pressures of living in a male-dominated society, but you are over-compensating. The same goes for CaliforniaGirl, she's just much better at talking shit than you. Just some objective observation to help you out in life, as I am willing to be this carries over into your personal life. mmmkay pumpkin?

NO, humiliating the shit out of you does not come across as needlessly hard-edged. Don't feel too bad, you may grow some new balls one day.

who are you, and why are you biting at my heels? stop being an asshole.

Don't blame me that you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Unkotare]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Your initial quote didn't mention political parties. Are you trying to change the subject because you can see the dead end to your BS comments?

 

[Unkotare]

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them
****************************************************
Appropriate. Thank you RW.

What's all this "our" and "we" stuff?

 

[rightwinger]

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them
****************************************************
Appropriate. Thank you RW.

What's all this "our" and "we" stuff?

That is how "we" speak of our country

 

[rightwinger]

That would be a good point if it weren't COMPLETELY WRONG.

Republicans have already lost the black and gay vote FOREVER

Now they are working on losing the Hispanic and Muslim vote

Your initial quote didn't mention political parties. Are you trying to change the subject because you can see the dead end to your BS comments?

No, not at all

I was talking about Republicans the whole time......just didn't want to hurt your feelings

 

[Unkotare]

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them
****************************************************
Appropriate. Thank you RW.

What's all this "our" and "we" stuff?

That is how "we" speak of our country

That would include black Americans, would it not? It would also include those whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right?

 

[rightwinger]

What's all this "our" and "we" stuff?

That is how "we" speak of our country

That would include black Americans, would it not? It would also include those whose ancestors had nothing to do with slavery, right?

The "we" was the US, State and local governments as well as the courts who not only tolerated but enforced the despicable treatment of blacks right up till the 1960s