Slavery/Racism: Some Questions

[PoliticalChic]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

 

[Dragon]

1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

Looks to me like your entire argument rests on this statement. At least, I didn't see anything else that wasn't about the subject of an "apology."

As applied to most "liberals," this statement is false. Most liberals see an apology as an empty gesture and couldn't care less. There are, of course, one or two exceptions, but that is going to be true of any broad claim. (Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

On the subject of slavery or racism, do you have anything to say that has nothing to do with the idea of apology? Because that's much ado about nothing, frankly.

 

[daveman]

(Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

Nonsense.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest mistake this country has ever made was bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not load them all up on a ship and return them to Africa once they were freed.

 

[Douger]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest mistake this country has ever made was bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not load them all up on a ship and return them to Africa once they were freed.

Lincoln tried. The Jews wouldn't accept it.

 

[rightwinger]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

America is the greatest nation on earth

Great nations are capable of admitting their mistakes and not only slavery, but our treatment of blacks as a nation was a mistake

No reason we shouldn't own up to it. The key is not only admitting your mistakes but learning from them

 

[Dragon]

(Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

Nonsense.

I mean real liberals, of course. The straw man stereotype in your brain may behave differently.

 

[daveman]

(Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

Nonsense.

I mean real liberals, of course. The straw man stereotype in your brain may behave differently.

Real liberals like who?

This should be entertaining.

 

[rightwinger]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

PC

Your questions appear like they were written by a child.....you didn't write them did you?

 

[Dragon]

Nonsense.

I mean real liberals, of course. The straw man stereotype in your brain may behave differently.

Real liberals like who?

This should be entertaining.

Start with me. Expand to any poster on this board who would so self-label. For prominent liberals in politics, add Dennis Kucinich and Bernie Sanders. Maybe Nancy Pelosi, too -- have to think about that but on the whole I'd say so.

That's not an exhaustive list but it will do for a start.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest mistake this country has ever made was bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not load them all up on a ship and return them to Africa once they were freed.

That is an over the top remark in poor taste and one of the most politically incorrect statements I have ever heard.
And damn funny too.

 

[percysunshine]

Liberals should apologize for being air heads. Several times a day.

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals should apologize for being air heads. Several times a day.

That's a good one...

Libruls are STOOPID

 

[PoliticalChic]

Based on some recent posts, racism and the battle against same, is the central thesis for many of our progressive colleagues. Some, it seems, found the actions of Chris Rock acceptable based on his race....and some imagined racism, and/or legacy of slavery....



1. Liberals love the idea of the “apology,” that the government should apologize for slavery, Japanese internment, you name it.

2. The Rabbis teach that no apology is legitimate unless the offender:

a. Expresses remorse stating specifically what he has done
b. Makes restitution
c. Refrains, in similar circumstances, from committing the offense again.

3. Based on the first of these, a governmental apology founders, without specifics as to who the “we” is, and who the “they” of the apology are.

4. Take the question of slavery vis-à-vis the American Government of today. Is it guilty of slavery?

a. If so, are those African American members of government equally guilty?

b. Are the American people alive today guilty?

c. If so, which ones? The black as well as the white?

d. Is the guilt heritable…for if it is, then would not those (the great majority of) Americans whose ancestors did not arrive until after slavery be exempt from apology?

e. How about the ancestors of the 300,000 white males who died to defeat slavery? Exempt as well? And the whites who voted for the 14th amendment and the Civil Rights Act?

f. And if not, on what basis are the descendants of slaves entitled to it?

5. Is it not absurd that six or seven decades after the West defeated Nazi Racism we are still considering making government decisions based on genetics?

6. To indulge in any racial preferences is not to award to a race, but, rather, to the state, the power to created different classes of citizens, and to rule on who shall belong to each class. This does not serve any desire for justice.

From chapter 12 of “The Secret Knowledge,” David Mamet.

PC

Your questions appear like they were written by a child.....you didn't write them did you?

Then you should have no trouble answering them.....

 

[daveman]

I mean real liberals, of course. The straw man stereotype in your brain may behave differently.

Real liberals like who?

This should be entertaining.

Start with me.

You failed already.

 

[MikeK]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The biggest mistake this country has ever made was bring slaves into the country. The second biggest mistake was to not load them all up on a ship and return them to Africa once they were freed.

While this proposed solution to the slavery issue will appeal to many Americans I'm sure it will offend many others. But if the proposal to return the slaves to Africa were modified by providing every returned slave with a monetary settlement sufficient to ensure a comfortable and happy life in his/her native land, i.e. a de facto reparation, would that make the proposal more acceptable to those originally opposed to it?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Apparently you guys haven't heard.
The Obama administration, after seeing the movie Minority Report - and using the notion of a pre-crime unit that arrests people before they commit a crime - have developed a branch of government that will "pre-apologize" for any actions it hasn't taken yet that might upset someone.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Looks to me like your entire argument rests on this statement. At least, I didn't see anything else that wasn't about the subject of an "apology."

As applied to most "liberals," this statement is false. Most liberals see an apology as an empty gesture and couldn't care less. There are, of course, one or two exceptions, but that is going to be true of any broad claim. (Especially applied to liberals, who tend to be free thinkers and thus not easily bound or defined by dogma.)

On the subject of slavery or racism, do you have anything to say that has nothing to do with the idea of apology? Because that's much ado about nothing, frankly.

Correct.

Liberals are pragmatists, unlike conservatives they disdain dogma and reactionaryism.

Liberals are only interested in solutions that work, regardless that solution’s political camp of origin.

Conservatives adhere blindly to dogma – the proof of that can be found in the threads of this very forum: ‘big government’ is ‘bad,’ taxes are ’bad,’ ‘liberals’ are ‘bad.’

As for the OP, it’s mostly gibberish, ignorance, and idiocy.

 

[rightwinger]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

 

[iamwhatiseem]

The bigger issue is not whether we should "apologize" for slavery but have we learned from our racist past?

All around us are examples where we have moved away from our racial animosity towards blacks and settled on new targets........Mexicans, gays and Muslims

This is true.
Liberals in the late 50's and 60's thru federal housing and welfare have created multi-generational damage to the black community. Welfare was reformed (sort of) and many federal housing complexes have been closed (sort of). Even though these policies were enacted 60 years ago - it may very well be another 60 years before the damage from them are finally over.
However, it doesn't appear that liberals have learned from their mistakes. WIth expanding on the unconstitutional and racist affirmative action as well as continuously lowering the bar for minorities to get into college - and then lowering the bar again where a student can go to school free of charge for up to 6 years and never earn a degree.

Your right, we haven't learned.