SHould the mandate or the entire bill go?

[Conservative]

Your opinion is noted, but it's bullshit... Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA...
You're response isn't related to my opinions, and there is no evidence offered to conclude, "Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA".


Again, your opinion is noted, but bullshit... Already explained how smaller bills could speed through the system...

History suggests my opinion is spot on; have you not noticed, the Congress is broken, and bills smaller or otherwise are dead on arrival.



Nobody said the system wasn't broken... What they said was forcing Americans to purchase health insurance or else face penalties is unconstitutional... They said that a 2700+ page of beaurocratic bullshit that we cannot afford is not the answer...

Making taxpayers subsidize the uninsured as exists today is okay because?

Suggesting you have any ideas on what is Constitutional and what is not is with all honesty laughable. I've read (too) many of your posts most of which are snarky one-liners. Again, with all honesty, you're not very bright but exceptionally opinionated.

I love how you pound your chest like a feces-flinging monkey and claim only your opinions are valid... It's comical, and I thank you for the levity...

Your "opinion" of the "stain" on Roberts' reputation only reinforces that...

Your knowledge of the Constitution is pulled directly off of left-wing sites and blogs and serve up little more than comic releif... Again, kudos for the laughs...

it's all he knows how to do.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama has handed out so many politically motivated exemptions that even if the bill could work, it can't.

 

[Rocko]

Without the mandate, insurance companies won't make enough include those with pre-exising conditions, and those two are the signature parts of ObamaScare. The whole thing is on life support.

He'll try again if he gets re-elected.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

obama has handed out so many politically motivated exemptions that even if the bill could work, it can't.

I forgot about all those exemptions.......

 

[candycorn]

Not all the provisions acceptable to both sides involve monies spent... Parental coverage up to 26, pre-existing conditions...


That's because you're half-blind...



I didn't say it was likely... The amendment process exists and is THE ONLY method for altering the Constitution...

There are idiots who believe it can be altered through interpretation, though... That IS amusing...

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

There is a process to ammend the consitution to adjust to the realities of the current world.

If you can push for a constitutional ammendment that gives the government the authority to tell individual citizens they must buy products from private companies then go for it. If the ammendment passes you can have the affordable care act stand as it is now.

I was sort of talking about the overall condition of things but I see your point.

Unfortunately, it sort of drives home the point that our government is beholden to this 200+ year old document and any meaningful change to it that will affect the lives of Americans will not happen in this climate. Someday, the people will wake up and realize that the political apparatus that runs this country--the two party system--is screwing them and demand a change. The only one that is likely to come is probably one that writes the party system into the Constitution since it is the apparatus itself that must prescribe it's own demise.

Not bloodly likely.

 

[candycorn]

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

The founders provided for ways of adjusting...

You aparently believe "feelings" and political ideaology should be used as a basis of what is acceptable for the entire country and what isn't... Amusing indeed....

Why have states at all? Just make it one big ass state where we all have to follow the will of the politicians and the polls, right?

huh?

Actually, quite the contrary. Feelings and political ideology are what prevents anything from being legislated and, by extension, any meaningful change to the Constitution. No bother, all of the good ideas we'll ever need were dreamt up by the guys who were alive before we had zippers.

 

[Ernie S.]

If struck down in it's entirety, do you think congress would do anything at all to replace it? Not a chance in hell, we get to wait another ten or twenty years for something that should have been done twenty years ago.

I'm sure that the House would propose a workable solution that would languish on Harry Reid's desk with the couple dozen bills already gathering dust.

 

[RDD_1210]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

 

[Immanuel]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

 

[RDD_1210]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

What was better before about healthcare in this country before this legislation. Be specific and you can't use buzzwords, especially the word "freedom". I'm talking about real world examples about what was better before.

 

[Dr.House]

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

The founders provided for ways of adjusting...

You aparently believe "feelings" and political ideaology should be used as a basis of what is acceptable for the entire country and what isn't... Amusing indeed....

Why have states at all? Just make it one big ass state where we all have to follow the will of the politicians and the polls, right?

huh?

Actually, quite the contrary. Feelings and political ideology are what prevents anything from being legislated and, by extension, any meaningful change to the Constitution. No bother, all of the good ideas we'll ever need were dreamt up by the guys who were alive before we had zippers.

Not quite sure what you're arguing.... It's been explained to you a few times now that there are ways of legally changing the Constitution...

 

[Dr.House]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

 

[Immanuel]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

What was better before about healthcare in this country before this legislation. Be specific and you can't use buzzwords, especially the word "freedom". I'm talking about real world examples about what was better before.

For one thing, I was not forced to pay for something I cannot afford.

I have been unemployed for two years. I damn well cannot afford even the minimum requirement that will come my way of approximately $300/month with exemptions that I will be forced to pay come 2014. My wife works and with my unemployment it is unlikely I will qualify for the full coverage, so basically, I'm screwed. And I'm not the only one in this boat.

Beyond that, Obamacare has done nothing for me. Not a damned thing! Oh wait, the job situation is impossible to navigate because employers don't want to frigging hire people when they are going to be forced to provide health insurance on top of wages and they have no frigging clue how much that is going to cost them in the long run.

The costs of health policies are skyrocketing even worse than they were before Obamacare and are only going to get worse... not better. So, even when I do finally land a job, it will cost me more in my premiums than it would have pre-obamacare.

There's three things right off the top of my head.

I already said there were some good things within Obamacare so I won't ask you the same kind question you just asked me.

You may want to call me a terrible person for not being insured today and risking the possibility that I could end up in the hospital and the employed/insured would end up eventually paying for it, but so far I have avoided the need for any medical care that I could not pay for on my own and God willing I will land a job before I do... but then Obamacare has made that damned near impossible.

Immie

 

[GHook93]

If they get rid of the mandate the entire thing falls apart anyways.

First, HAA has a non-severability clause. Meaning if one section of the bill is invalidated, then the entire bill goes down with it.

Second, the entire theory of the bill is in order to force the insurance co's to treat everyone the same, not charge more or deny people for preexisting condition, that the money the insurance cos lost on these people, would be made up by forcing young and health people to get insurance. That already failed, because the expense shifting wasn't enough and the insurance cos are jacking up the rates on everyone. Soon the HAA will make health insurance unaffordable for everyone! I digress. Without the mandate the central theme of the HAA goes up in smoke!

 

[Dr.House]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

What was better before about healthcare in this country before this legislation. Be specific and you can't use buzzwords, especially the word "freedom". I'm talking about real world examples about what was better before.

0bama said it would cost $900 billion over 10 years and wouldn't add a dime to the debt... It's now estimated to cost $2.6 trillion - almost triple!

0bama said you'd get to keep your doctor... Not true - ask Plymco_Pilgrim...

 

[The T]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

And no last minute backroom deals when it looks like the bill might fail. No more "Lousiana Purchases" for votes...

 

[Zander]

It can't work without the mandate.

We need to shit can the whole steaming pile of crap and every single one of the Democrats that voted for it. Obama wasted our time and treasure fiddle fucking around on an unconstitutional power grab when he should have been working on the economy.

 

[The T]

It can't work without the mandate.

We need to shit can the whole steaming pile of crap and every single one of the Democrats that voted for it. Obama wasted our time and treasure fiddle fucking around on an unconstitutional power grab when he should have been working on the economy.

He was working on the economy. Trying to commandeer 1/7th of it for gubmint to control.

But yeah, the mandate goes? The law can't work just as as taking an engine out of a car. it looks nice but it won't do anything but sit there.

 

[Zander]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

Or better yet- stay out of our business. The government has created the problem that they now claim they NEED to "Solve". It's like having an arsonist work for the Fire Dept.

 

[Avatar4321]

Honestly, I dont see how they can not strike down the entire law when they find the mandate unconstitutional. You think 9 justices are going to comb through 2000+ pages of a law Congress was too lazy to even read to determine which parts can be kept and which must be struck down because they are completely tied to the mandate? I sure as heck don't.

The consequences of picking and choosing what goes and what remains is too burdensome. Much easier for Congress to repass any parts where there is agreement and start from scratch. Otherwise, the Supreme Court is overreaching in it's power.

If you don't like that, then maybe you should jam through legislation that no one's read using questionable methods. Maybe you should cross your T's and dot your I's.