SHould the mandate or the entire bill go?

[The T]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

Or better yet- stay out of our business. The government has created the problem that they now claim they NEED to "Solve". It's like having an arsonist work for the Fire Dept.

Great analogy! Isn't this what 'progressives' have been doing? Create a problem or capitalize on small ones, legislate on it, muck it up and then propose more law to 'fix it' until eventually gubmint eventuially is in control of it ?

 

[Avatar4321]

It can't work without the mandate.

We need to shit can the whole steaming pile of crap and every single one of the Democrats that voted for it. Obama wasted our time and treasure fiddle fucking around on an unconstitutional power grab when he should have been working on the economy.

He was working on the economy. Trying to commandeer 1/7th of it for gubmint to control.

But yeah, the mandate goes? The law can't work just as as taking an engine out of a car. it looks nice but it won't do anything but sit there.

You are being incredibly generous because the bill didnt look nice at all.

 

[The T]

Honestly, I dont see how they can not strike down the entire law when they find the mandate unconstitutional. You think 9 justices are going to comb through 2000+ pages of a law Congress was too lazy to even read to determine which parts can be kept and which must be struck down because they are completely tied to the mandate? I sure as heck don't.

The consequences of picking and choosing what goes and what remains is too burdensome. Much easier for Congress to repass any parts where there is agreement and start from scratch. Otherwise, the Supreme Court is overreaching in it's power.

If you don't like that, then maybe you should jam through legislation that no one's read using questionable methods. Maybe you should cross your T's and dot your I's.

And this is precisely why the Statists are so upset that they stand a good chance to lose this issue. They expected the Court to legislate from the bench.

 

[Avatar4321]

Great analogy! Isn't this what 'progressives' have been doing? Create a problem or capitalize on small ones, legislate on it, muck it up and then propose more law to 'fix it' until eventually gubmint eventuially is in control of it ?

That's precisely what they do. Which is why it's so absurd.

Government is not the solution to the people's problems. The people are.

 

[The T]

It can't work without the mandate.

We need to shit can the whole steaming pile of crap and every single one of the Democrats that voted for it. Obama wasted our time and treasure fiddle fucking around on an unconstitutional power grab when he should have been working on the economy.

He was working on the economy. Trying to commandeer 1/7th of it for gubmint to control.

But yeah, the mandate goes? The law can't work just as as taking an engine out of a car. it looks nice but it won't do anything but sit there.

You are being incredibly generous because the bill didnt look nice at all.

Gottaleave some 'wiggle room' for a potential Statist rebuttal.

 

[saveliberty]

Can we keep the death panels? Please, please can we?

 

[Avatar4321]

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

I think it's far more amusing to see people discount thousands of years of history that shows the dangers of human nature, and think that because we have a few more technological toys, that human beings are somehow inherently diferent in nature to where they were thousands of years ago.

Even more amusing than that, the document our Founders wrote 200 years ago is more relevant to the realities of the modern world than it was 200 years ago.

 

[saveliberty]

Why don't we look at something with more direct application candycorn? Try looking at the history of Medicaid and the rampant fraud or costs.

 

[Avatar4321]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

There is a very obvious real world solution. One that's worked for thousands of years. We take care of ourselves and our loved ones.

 

[The T]

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

I think it's far more amusing to see people discount thousands of years of history that shows the dangers of human nature, and think that because we have a few more technological toys, that human beings are somehow inherently diferent in nature to where they were thousands of years ago.

Even more amusing than that, the document our Founders wrote 200 years ago is more relevant to the realities of the modern world than it was 200 years ago.

I have heard so many on TV state that this looks bad for Obama...Yeah, it is...but of far more import? Looks good for the people and the cause of thier Liberty, and keeping the Constitution from being torn asunder.

That is what is at stake here regardless of the weeping for Obama by the media pundits who don't see the problem, and never will.

 

[uscitizen]

If you want a system like they have in Socialist countrys, its not gonna happen. Too many freeloaders will bankrupt any health care program.

Healthcare in it's current forn will bankrupt the USA within 20 years.
It will be eating the majority of the GDP.

 

[The T]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

There is a very obvious real world solution. One that's worked for thousands of years. We take care of ourselves and our loved ones.

...on OUR terms, not what government allows.

 

[RDD_1210]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

Try and be specific. I know it's hard when you don't have your own thoughts. But try.

 

[The Rabbi]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

There is a very obvious real world solution. One that's worked for thousands of years. We take care of ourselves and our loved ones.

The notion that we need to keep Obamacare because there is no alternative is laughable. The way things were before Obamacare would be preferable.
There are several workable plans that don't involve coercing people into buying stuff. But the Dums only want to scream we're killing Grandma (Dums are the biggest fucking hypocrites to walk the planet, as their plan actually would kill Grandma).

 

[AmericanFirst]

If struck down in it's entirety, do you think congress would do anything at all to replace it? Not a chance in hell, we get to wait another ten or twenty years for something that should have been done twenty years ago.

I can wait another 20 years before socialism shows its ugly head again, oh wait, we still have obama.

 

[RDD_1210]

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

What was better before about healthcare in this country before this legislation. Be specific and you can't use buzzwords, especially the word "freedom". I'm talking about real world examples about what was better before.

For one thing, I was not forced to pay for something I cannot afford.

I have been unemployed for two years. I damn well cannot afford even the minimum requirement that will come my way of approximately $300/month with exemptions that I will be forced to pay come 2014. My wife works and with my unemployment it is unlikely I will qualify for the full coverage, so basically, I'm screwed. And I'm not the only one in this boat.

Beyond that, Obamacare has done nothing for me. Not a damned thing! Oh wait, the job situation is impossible to navigate because employers don't want to frigging hire people when they are going to be forced to provide health insurance on top of wages and they have no frigging clue how much that is going to cost them in the long run.

The costs of health policies are skyrocketing even worse than they were before Obamacare and are only going to get worse... not better. So, even when I do finally land a job, it will cost me more in my premiums than it would have pre-obamacare.

There's three things right off the top of my head.

I already said there were some good things within Obamacare so I won't ask you the same kind question you just asked me.

You may want to call me a terrible person for not being insured today and risking the possibility that I could end up in the hospital and the employed/insured would end up eventually paying for it, but so far I have avoided the need for any medical care that I could not pay for on my own and God willing I will land a job before I do... but then Obamacare has made that damned near impossible.

Immie

If you truly can't afford it there are means to help people such as yourself. That's one of the points of this legislation to help get insurance for those who can't afford it. Do you not qualify to get subsidized help to cover the cost of your insurance? I obviously don't know your personal financial details but I would bet that you wouldn't have to pay so much out of pocket if you are as truly broke as you claim to be.

The costs are still rising yes and thats part of my major gripe is that this legislation doesn't do enough to reign in soaring costs. But has it made the sky rocketing costs worse? I don't think anyone can say that, because it just passed and hasn't even come close to being fully implemented yet.

 

[oreo]

From the arguments it sure looks like the mandate part of Obamacare is toast. The question was argued on the last day whether the entire bill or just that part of it should be struck down. Justice Ginsburg argued that striking the entire bill would be a radical exercise in judicial power. Justice Scalia argued that not striking the entire bill would be an exercise in judicial power.
I am inclined to agree with Scalia (surprise). Since so much of the bill hinges on the mandate leaving any part of it would mean essentially the justices deciding what should or shouldn't be the law. Which is really Congress' role. Better to nix the whole thing and let Congress start over.

Without the mandate--and leaving parts of it in place--would send medical insurance rates sky-rocketing--where no one could afford it. IOW--the entire bill has to go.

 

[Dr.House]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

Try and be specific. I know it's hard when you don't have your own thoughts. But try.

I was - try reading my next post, dipshit...

 

[Dr.House]

I disagree about what we had before was much worse. I think it was a hell of a lot better than what we have under Obamacare.

As for repealing it and not providing solutions to the problem? Well, I admit there are a lot of holes that need to be patched up in our system. It is a shame that no one, and I repeat no one including the Democrats have a solution to this problem. It is not something that can be cleaned up over night as Princess Nancy tried to do in 2009.

It is going to take a hell of a lot of work and a hell of a lot of trial and error. We should be working together to solve this problem not letting Princess Nancy dictate to us.

Immie

What was better before about healthcare in this country before this legislation. Be specific and you can't use buzzwords, especially the word "freedom". I'm talking about real world examples about what was better before.

0bama said it would cost $900 billion over 10 years and wouldn't add a dime to the debt... It's now estimated to cost $2.6 trillion - almost triple!

0bama said you'd get to keep your doctor... Not true - ask Plymco_Pilgrim...

Quoted, because dipshit_1210 would probably wander around for hours trying to find it....

 

[RDD_1210]

All of these people want it repealed all together but have no well thought out, real world viable alternate solutions. What we had before this legislation was much worse and going back to that would be outright idiotic.

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed was much worse than doing nothing at all...

Start over... Pass smaller bills, starting with the shit that both sides agreed upon, and then go from there...

Or better yet- stay out of our business. The government has created the problem that they now claim they NEED to "Solve". It's like having an arsonist work for the Fire Dept.

I'd love to hear you explain how government created the problem with the costs of healthcare, but I know you'll either not answer or you'll spew some nonsense about interfering in the "free market".

Sometimes I wish I too could be so oblivious to the real world, it would free my brain up to watch daytime tv, fox news and nascar.