SHould the mandate or the entire bill go?

Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.
Your opinion is noted, but it's bullshit... Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA...

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act it will take a generation or more for another bill to make it through the Congress and to the desk of the POTUS.
Again, your opinion is noted, but bullshit... Already explained how smaller bills could speed through the system...

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

Nobody said the system wasn't broken... What they said was forcing Americans to purchase health insurance or else face penalties is unconstitutional... They said that a 2700+ page of beaurocratic bullshit that we cannot afford is not the answer...
 
then tell us why all other countries who have a single payer system have better care that is cheaper than ours?

Government Obstruction and Mismanagement, here.

I like how they define "cheaper" than ours. The is little to no "direct" cost to the citizens. That is because they pay for it in taxes. Just because they don't pay premiums to insurance companies does not mean they don't pay for it.

Immie
 
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Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act it will take a generation or more for another bill to make it through the Congress and to the desk of the POTUS.

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

You meant to say if they uphold the Affordable Health Care Act in a 5-4 decision it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts and forever give the government the authority to tell private citizens they must buy products from private companies for the greater good.

If I meant to say that, I would have said so. What I did suggest, is that the property interest which has created so much hysteria cuts both ways.

Everyone who gets sick or injured will get treatment; those of us who pay taxes and purchase health insurance subsidize those who do not.
 
Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act it will take a generation or more for another bill to make it through the Congress and to the desk of the POTUS.

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

How is doing their job going to be a stain on the Chief Justice's record? Makes no sense.
It might take another generation to get a bill this bad. I hope it is longer than that.
The uninsured is a canard. The portion of health care expenses due to uninsured people who cannot pay is relatively small. It is a very minor driver of costs but politically expedient to emphasize.

If you are concerned with subsidies to freeloaders then you should be opposed to the bill, which is exactly that. Young healthy people who really don't need much insurance are forced to buy expensive comprehensive coverage they will not use to provide subsidies for zhlubby older people whose health costs are high. That is the essence of O-care.
 
If struck down in it's entirety, do you think congress would do anything at all to replace it? Not a chance in hell, we get to wait another ten or twenty years for something that should have been done twenty years ago.

You're right about that. Costs aren't going down. So persons that would have gotten their preventative medical care done will now wait until they self-present to the emergency room. What would have been handled by drug therapy for pennies will now be handled by procedures that costs dollars; hundreds of them.

Again, smaller bills with the stuff that nobody was arguing over could easily be passed... Unless, of course, the out of power democratics spend time whining and being sore losers...
I doubt the word "easily" would be used to describe any bill passed where new monies would be spent.

From the looks of the board, the republicans seem to be the ones whining and being sore losers.


Still, the mandate is unconstitutional as far as I can tell.

I'm really amused at the theory that all of the good ideas in the world were contained in our Constitution and anything suggested is prohibited (or may as well be) since it wasn't installed in 1787.

I'm amused that you people seem to forget there's an amendment process to alter the Constitution...


It's a non-starter of an argument. In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.
 
In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.

Proving you are wrong as usual.
Ron Wyden and Paul Ryan's Bipartisan Plan for Health Care and Medicare Reform - Forbes

The GOP is going to win a huge victory when the Court tosses O-care. Why would we whine about that??
 
In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.

Proving you are wrong as usual.
Ron Wyden and Paul Ryan's Bipartisan Plan for Health Care and Medicare Reform - Forbes

The GOP is going to win a huge victory when the Court tosses O-care. Why would we whine about that??

Funny (even for you).

A bill is a bill until it is voted on by both houses then conferees work out the differences then it is signed into law or vetoed. For an academic argument, it's fine. In the real world, to quote House, it's bullshit.

I'm sure you'll find something to bellyache about as long as Obama is in the White House. You always do.

Perry.
 
In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.

Proving you are wrong as usual.
Ron Wyden and Paul Ryan's Bipartisan Plan for Health Care and Medicare Reform - Forbes

The GOP is going to win a huge victory when the Court tosses O-care. Why would we whine about that??

Today's vote is private; we may not know until June, I've read. How DID this "unconstitutional" bill get passed anyway?
 
In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.

Proving you are wrong as usual.
Ron Wyden and Paul Ryan's Bipartisan Plan for Health Care and Medicare Reform - Forbes

The GOP is going to win a huge victory when the Court tosses O-care. Why would we whine about that??

Funny (even for you).

A bill is a bill until it is voted on by both houses then conferees work out the differences then it is signed into law or vetoed. For an academic argument, it's fine. In the real world, to quote House, it's bullshit.

I'm sure you'll find something to bellyache about as long as Obama is in the White House. You always do.

Perry.

You find it funny to have your ass handed to you for making stupid unsupportable statements? You said that two members could never agree across the aisle. That is clearly untrue. There is actually a lot of willingness to work across the aisle. Just not from the radical wing of the Dums, which includes the WH.
 
the entire law should be struck down

states should adopt the non exclusionary pre existing conditon benefit as well as keeping grown children on their parents policies to age 26.

a 5000.00 deductible should be instituted...........

there already is medicaid and state welfare health insurance plans for the poor
 
Proving you are wrong as usual.
Ron Wyden and Paul Ryan's Bipartisan Plan for Health Care and Medicare Reform - Forbes

The GOP is going to win a huge victory when the Court tosses O-care. Why would we whine about that??

Funny (even for you).

A bill is a bill until it is voted on by both houses then conferees work out the differences then it is signed into law or vetoed. For an academic argument, it's fine. In the real world, to quote House, it's bullshit.

I'm sure you'll find something to bellyache about as long as Obama is in the White House. You always do.

Perry.

You find it funny to have your ass handed to you for making stupid unsupportable statements? You said that two members could never agree across the aisle. That is clearly untrue. There is actually a lot of willingness to work across the aisle. Just not from the radical wing of the Dums, which includes the WH.

I find it funny that you took my example literally; probably blinded by rage and hatred (as always). Hey did you see where Perry came out in favor of Pink Slime yesterday? LOL.
 
Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA.

Trouble with this is, they're not overwhelmingly against it from any one direction. Only when you combine people like me, who would prefer a single-payer system, with people like some on this board who think the government should stay out of health care altogether, do you get a majority in opposition. And obviously it's not correct to combine me with them as if we agreed.
 
Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.
Your opinion is noted, but it's bullshit... Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA...
You're response isn't related to my opinions, and there is no evidence offered to conclude, "Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA".

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act it will take a generation or more for another bill to make it through the Congress and to the desk of the POTUS.
Again, your opinion is noted, but bullshit... Already explained how smaller bills could speed through the system...

History suggests my opinion is spot on; have you not noticed, the Congress is broken, and bills smaller or otherwise are dead on arrival.

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

Nobody said the system wasn't broken... What they said was forcing Americans to purchase health insurance or else face penalties is unconstitutional... They said that a 2700+ page of beaurocratic bullshit that we cannot afford is not the answer...
Making taxpayers subsidize the uninsured as exists today is okay because?

Suggesting you have any ideas on what is Constitutional and what is not is with all honesty laughable. I've read (too) many of your posts most of which are snarky one-liners. Again, with all honesty, you're not very bright but exceptionally opinionated.
 
You're right about that. Costs aren't going down. So persons that would have gotten their preventative medical care done will now wait until they self-present to the emergency room. What would have been handled by drug therapy for pennies will now be handled by procedures that costs dollars; hundreds of them.

Again, smaller bills with the stuff that nobody was arguing over could easily be passed... Unless, of course, the out of power democratics spend time whining and being sore losers...
I doubt the word "easily" would be used to describe any bill passed where new monies would be spent.
Not all the provisions acceptable to both sides involve monies spent... Parental coverage up to 26, pre-existing conditions...

From the looks of the board, the republicans seem to be the ones whining and being sore losers.
That's because you're half-blind...


Still, the mandate is unconstitutional as far as I can tell.

I'm really amused at the theory that all of the good ideas in the world were contained in our Constitution and anything suggested is prohibited (or may as well be) since it wasn't installed in 1787.

I'm amused that you people seem to forget there's an amendment process to alter the Constitution...


It's a non-starter of an argument. In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.
I didn't say it was likely... The amendment process exists and is THE ONLY method for altering the Constitution...

There are idiots who believe it can be altered through interpretation, though... That IS amusing...
 
Again, smaller bills with the stuff that nobody was arguing over could easily be passed... Unless, of course, the out of power democratics spend time whining and being sore losers...
I doubt the word "easily" would be used to describe any bill passed where new monies would be spent.
Not all the provisions acceptable to both sides involve monies spent... Parental coverage up to 26, pre-existing conditions...


That's because you're half-blind...


I'm amused that you people seem to forget there's an amendment process to alter the Constitution...


It's a non-starter of an argument. In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.
I didn't say it was likely... The amendment process exists and is THE ONLY method for altering the Constitution...

There are idiots who believe it can be altered through interpretation, though... That IS amusing...

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.
 
Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.
Your opinion is noted, but it's bullshit... Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA...
You're response isn't related to my opinions, and there is no evidence offered to conclude, "Americans are overwhelmingly against the ACA".


Again, your opinion is noted, but bullshit... Already explained how smaller bills could speed through the system...

History suggests my opinion is spot on; have you not noticed, the Congress is broken, and bills smaller or otherwise are dead on arrival.

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

Nobody said the system wasn't broken... What they said was forcing Americans to purchase health insurance or else face penalties is unconstitutional... They said that a 2700+ page of beaurocratic bullshit that we cannot afford is not the answer...
Making taxpayers subsidize the uninsured as exists today is okay because?

Suggesting you have any ideas on what is Constitutional and what is not is with all honesty laughable. I've read (too) many of your posts most of which are snarky one-liners. Again, with all honesty, you're not very bright but exceptionally opinionated.

I love how you pound your chest like a feces-flinging monkey and claim only your opinions are valid... It's comical, and I thank you for the levity...:lol:

Your "opinion" of the "stain" on Roberts' reputation only reinforces that...

Your knowledge of the Constitution is pulled directly off of left-wing sites and blogs and serve up little more than comic releif... Again, kudos for the laughs...:clap2:
 
So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

The founders provided for ways of adjusting...

You aparently believe "feelings" and political ideaology should be used as a basis of what is acceptable for the entire country and what isn't... Amusing indeed....

Why have states at all? Just make it one big ass state where we all have to follow the will of the politicians and the polls, right?
 
Some thoughts on this issue:

Too many people fail to understand that the Supreme Court is a political institution and a body of individuals who understand their place in history.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act and that decision is 5-4 it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts.

If the Court strikes down the Affordable Health care act it will take a generation or more for another bill to make it through the Congress and to the desk of the POTUS.

Currently, we the taxpayers, are providing health care for the uninsured. Such care is provided by public/county hospitals and emergency rooms in private for profit and non profit hospitals.

Protecting the right of the uninsured as a property interest denies those who pay taxes - local, state, federal - and purchase health care insurance of our property interest (we are forced to pay higher taxes and insurance (rates and co-pay) to subsidize the freeloaders.

You meant to say if they uphold the Affordable Health Care Act in a 5-4 decision it will forever stain the reputation of Chief Justice Roberts and forever give the government the authority to tell private citizens they must buy products from private companies for the greater good.

If I meant to say that, I would have said so. What I did suggest, is that the property interest which has created so much hysteria cuts both ways.

Everyone who gets sick or injured will get treatment; those of us who pay taxes and purchase health insurance subsidize those who do not.

I know and you know I know you didn't mean to say what I typed, it was just me interjecting my opinion into your statement.

Basically I am saying you are wrong in saying that if the affordable care act is struck down it would be a stain on Justice Roberts. In fact, allowing the bill to stand with the individual mandate in it (the mandate which gives the federal government a new power it doesn't have right now, the power to compel citizens to buy private company's products by virtue of being citizens) it would put justice Roberts in the history books as the Cheif Justice who allowed the federal government the authority to tell americans what they can and can not buy.
 
I doubt the word "easily" would be used to describe any bill passed where new monies would be spent.
Not all the provisions acceptable to both sides involve monies spent... Parental coverage up to 26, pre-existing conditions...


That's because you're half-blind...


It's a non-starter of an argument. In this climate, two people from different sides of the aisle can't agree if it's partly cloudy or partly sunny; yeah...I'm so sure that we'll be able to amend the Constitution in this climate. You can blame both sides for the atmosphere of course but you can't deny that it exists.
I didn't say it was likely... The amendment process exists and is THE ONLY method for altering the Constitution...

There are idiots who believe it can be altered through interpretation, though... That IS amusing...

So as I was saying, the way it was written--way back before we had street lights--is the basis for all government action. Its amusing that there are still some who think the country is better off not adjusting to the realities of the current world.

There is a process to ammend the consitution to adjust to the realities of the current world.

If you can push for a constitutional ammendment that gives the government the authority to tell individual citizens they must buy products from private companies then go for it. If the ammendment passes you can have the affordable care act stand as it is now.
 

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