Zone1 Should She Have Been Allowed to Terminate Her Pregnancy?

[Kruska]

It isn't any government's right to determine via a law as to what one can do with his own body - as such abortion is only up to the choice/decision of the respective woman.
That particular women then needs to obey the law.

There are laws in place that regulate and define murder. (murder is the intended or accidental ending of another ones life)
It is the peoples -societies opinion (not the government) to define as to where "life" starts or is recognized as such. The peoples will, has to be observed and followed up by the government - not the other way around. Supposedly the peoples will is what defines democracy.

If therefore a country or state decides upon it's peoples majority decision, that life starts at day 1 or week 20 or whatever then that is the respective law. If therefore an abortion is pursued upon or after life exists - it is murder. Nothing to discuss about it. It is totally Independent as to how this life was created - e.g. rape or consensual or via a lab-tube. It is totally independent as to whether a new life will face certain death upon being born - or if it is deemed to be not live-worthy e.g. genetic or whatever dysfunctions or disabilities.

Therefore as for the latter case, separate, additional laws might be taken into consideration in regards to legalizing an abortion. Again based on the peoples will in majority. Not by the government. Only the peoples will, must and can be enforced by a government's respective institutions - logically via laws and it's judicial organizations.

If one doesn't agree towards a law - oppose it via democratic tools e.g. voting, or simply leave the state or country who's law's or a particular law one doesn't want to accept.

As for the USA, have the people voted on such respective abortion laws? or did the respective ruling government simply impose abortion laws?

I live and work in Asia - mostly China, the latter has clear laws in place regulating abortion. The vast majority of it's people accepts it and is in it's favor - and follows that law.
The same goes for my home country Germany.

Why is it such a big issue of discussion and non stop controversy in the USA?

 

[talksalot]

My friend was scheduled for an abortion based on blood tests. She was told the baby had died. A last ditch ultrasound by the tech saved the child's life.

Sometimes doctors are wrong. If the worst happens, the baby can save other lives by being an organ donor.

 

[Coyote]

health is anything. if she thinks she gets a cold after she can abort after 24 weeks.

The law is obscene.

Tbe law leaves it in the hands of the doctor as is appropriate. Do want politicians deciding whether or not you should have treatments or you and your doctor. What’s obscene is a woman no linger has that option and could have condition that severely impair or kill her if not addressed prior to death’s door.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

No, it really isn’t that clear. You are also flat out lying when you ANYONE wants abortion through birth,so just stop with that and try an honest argument for a change (and don’t trot out that same old stripped of context quote again).

You’re the one flat out lying.

Pro-aborts constantly assert that birth equals personhood and at any time before that abortion is fine. California and New York are the blue state norm, and as other places fall into Democrat depravity, more will follow with allowing abortion up to birth. Hell, some of you fuckers are at least intellectually consistent and honest enough to say personhood shouldn’t even start at birth, so infanticide should be legal.

The audacity of you making this bullshit claim. You saying “no one” wants abortion up to birth. Ridiculous. Patently ridiculous dishonesty. Your camp is all about “shout your abortion” now. Own it. Stop lying.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

It isn't any government's right to determine via a law as to what one can do with his own body

Your kid’s body isn’t your body.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Tbe law leaves it in the hands of the doctor as is appropriate.

Disgusting.

George Tiller (rest in piss) and his barred from medicine hack partner exploited a similar loophole in Kansas - in New York it isn’t even a loophole, it’s just working as intended. And you just claimed that not only you, but NO ONE wanted abortion up to birth, yet here you are two seconds later saying it’s appropriate up to birth - that that is how it should be.

You’re not just lying at this point, you’re trolling. The blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty and self-contradiction must be the point.

 

[martybegan]

Tbe law leaves it in the hands of the doctor as is appropriate. Do want politicians deciding whether or not you should have treatments or you and your doctor. What’s obscene is a woman no linger has that option and could have condition that severely impair or kill her if not addressed prior to death’s door.

Life of the mother is an exception in all of these laws.

The dividing line is people who favor abortion restrictions see the fetus as a life worthy of protection, and radical abortion rights people do not.

 

[Kruska]

Your kid’s body isn’t your body.

Yes - no more after "Life" has been validated - but an abortion that is legal in most countries is before that "life" exists.

 

[sartre play]

One of the more annoying things about this pro/anti abort conversation
is the loudest screamers
Who Never under any substances Ever will be put in this kind of situation.
MEN. who are making these laws.
some how the balance there seems a little lopsided

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

One of the more annoying things about this pro/anti abort conversation
is the loudest screamers
Who Never under any substances Ever will be put in this kind of situation.
MEN. who are making these laws.
some how the balance there seems a little lopsided

Men can attack and kill others.
Men can hire contract killers.
Men can be killed by contract killers.

Pretty sure men know it works, and we’re subject to laws that prohibit us from attacking the innocent or hiring someone to do it for us. Pretty sure we know that it would be evil and inexcusable for someone to just kill us for their own selfish gain.

 

[alang1216]

And again, those "legal eagles" are the ones who want the law gone entirely.

More baseless conjecture.

 

[Coyote]

You’re the one flat out lying.

If I’m lying, you need to do a better job proving it. Thus far your ”proof” seems to be little more than slurs and vulgarity.

Pro-aborts constantly assert that birth equals personhood and at any time before that abortion is fine. California and New York are the blue state norm, and as other places fall into Democrat depravity, more will follow with allowing abortion up to birth.

What a stupid thing to say. And it’s a lie.

For example, California:

California Prop 1 wouldn’t legalize abortion until ‘moment of birth’

CLAIM: California’s Proposition 1 will change the state’s constitution to allow taxpayer-funded abortions up to the moment of birth, regardless of the health of the mother.

apnews.com

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. Existing state-subsidized health programs cover abortion services for qualifying patients and these would not be modified by Proposition 1. The amendment does not mention prohibiting or allowing abortions late in pregnancy. But state law already restricts third-trimester abortions, and California legal experts told The Associated Press they don’t expect courts would interpret the amendment as expressly permitting them.

The amendment language put forward by Proposition 1 does not spell out which, if any, types of abortions would still be prohibited. But the courts wouldn’t interpret the amendment as an “absolute right” to any abortion in any circumstance, as they would still take existing law into account, said Kimberly West-Faulcon, a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.

California already prohibits most abortions after fetal viability, defined in state law as the point during a pregnancy at which there is “a reasonable likelihood of the fetus’ sustained survival outside the uterus.” Abortions after this point are now illegal unless the mother’s health or life is at risk.

Hell, some of you fuckers are at least intellectually consistent and honest enough to say personhood shouldn’t even start at birth, so infanticide should be legal.

I’ve never heard the argument you are claiming. If it indeed exists I imagine it is very fringe or you are distorting something.

The audacity of you making this bullshit claim. You saying “no one” wants abortion up to birth. Ridiculous. Patently ridiculous dishonesty. Your camp is all about “shout your abortion” now. Own it. Stop lying.

You are lying again, or maybe you just have a very poor understanding of the laws involved.

On the other hand, let’s look at some pretty effed up views brought to us by your Republican Party.

No exception to save the life of the mother.

Idaho GOP’s anti-abortion platform makes no exception for saving a mother’s life

Idaho Republicans declare abortion is murder from fertilization as anti-abortion lawmakers across US push severe restrictions after end of Roe v Wade

www.independent.co.uk

TN’s abortion ban can interfere with a woman’s ability to get chemo for cancer.

New Abortion Laws Jeopardize Cancer Treatment for Pregnant Patients

By Charlotte Huff, Kaiser Health News As abortion bans go into effect across a contiguous swath of the South, cancer physicians are wrestling with how new state laws will influence their discussions with pregnant patients about what treatment options they can offer. Cancer coincides with roughly...

www.nashvillemedicalnews.com

TN’s ban also has no actual right to abortion to save a woman’s life.

Lawyer's mission: Translate Tenn.'s bewildering abortion ban

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Chloe Akers considers herself a grizzled criminal defense attorney. Until a few months ago, she didn’t spend much time thinking about abortion — for all her 39 years, abortion was not a crime, so she’d never imagined having to defend someone accused of performing one.

apnews.com

 

[Coyote]

Disgusting.

George Tiller (rest in piss) and his barred from medicine hack partner exploited a similar loophole in Kansas - in New York it isn’t even a loophole, it’s just working as intended. And you just claimed that not only you, but NO ONE wanted abortion up to birth, yet here you are two seconds later saying it’s appropriate up to birth - that that is how it should be.

You’re not just lying at this point, you’re trolling. The blatant hypocrisy and dishonesty and self-contradiction must be the point.

George Tiller is your “go to” argument isn’t it? However, Tiller was breaking the law not following it.

You have yet to come up with any argument that isn’t emotional piss.

 

[Coyote]

Life of the mother is an exception in all of these laws.

Not exactly. It is somewhat questionable in TN’s law for example.

The dividing line is people who favor abortion restrictions see the fetus as a life worthy of protection, and radical abortion rights people do not.

Radical anti-abortion people view the women’s rights as less than the fetus’.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

If I’m lying, you need to do a better job proving it. Thus far your ”proof” seems to be little more than slurs and vulgarity.

What a stupid thing to say. And it’s a lie.

Oh really?

Abortions after this point are now illegal unless the mother’s health or life is at risk.

Yeah, no.

Abortionist can say anything, abortion approved, zero scrutiny or concern, it's California.

Done. California will let you kill up to the moment of birth, no questions asked - you have lied.

I’ve never heard the argument you are claiming. If it indeed exists I imagine it is very fringe or you are distorting something.

You've never heard of "shout your abortion?" I find that beyond implausible, given that it is the open and loudly proclaimed norm in pro-abort circles.

That old canard about "Safe, legal, and rare" was always bullshit - you people only wanted legal, rarity was never a concern, and contract killing literally cannot be safe.

On the other hand, let’s look at some pretty effed up views brought to us by your Republican Party.

No exception to save the life of the mother.

Idaho GOP’s anti-abortion platform makes no exception for saving a mother’s life

Idaho Republicans declare abortion is murder from fertilization as anti-abortion lawmakers across US push severe restrictions after end of Roe v Wade

www.independent.co.uk

"Idaho's total abortion ban is now in effect. Effective August 25, 2022, anyone who performs an abortion of a clinically diagnosable pregnancy is guilty of a felony unless the abortion is necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman or in the case of rape or incest."

Rape exception, ugh. Do better, Idaho. But you're wrong.

TN’s abortion ban can interfere with a woman’s ability to get chemo for cancer.

New Abortion Laws Jeopardize Cancer Treatment for Pregnant Patients

By Charlotte Huff, Kaiser Health News As abortion bans go into effect across a contiguous swath of the South, cancer physicians are wrestling with how new state laws will influence their discussions with pregnant patients about what treatment options they can offer. Cancer coincides with roughly...

www.nashvillemedicalnews.com

Good? Chemotherapy drugs are extremely harmful to the person receiving them, let alone the teratogenic effects they could have on your kid - it's a bad situation, but the chemo would have to wait. I'm not even sure how this could be a question or dilemma at all.

TN’s ban also has no actual right to abortion to save a woman’s life.

Lawyer's mission: Translate Tenn.'s bewildering abortion ban

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Chloe Akers considers herself a grizzled criminal defense attorney. Until a few months ago, she didn’t spend much time thinking about abortion — for all her 39 years, abortion was not a crime, so she’d never imagined having to defend someone accused of performing one.

apnews.com

Good? There is never a "right to abortion." Emergency medical triage isn't about any such absurd right.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

George Tiller is your “go to” argument isn’t it? However, Tiller was breaking the law not following it.

First time I've mentioned that monster in a long time, actually. Tiller was skirting the law and got away with it - his method of claiming anything was for the mother's "health" and getting a rubber stamp from his partner got him through scrutiny time and time again.

Kansas would have eventually gotten that rat bastard's medical license taken away, like his partner, but he would never have been sent to prison. This isn't to condone the vigilante by any means, but Tiller certainly hasn't killed anyone else since he thankfully died.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

Radical anti-abortion people view the women’s rights as less than the fetus’.

Nah. There is no rights conflict at all.

The kid has a right to life. The mother has parental obligations.

That isn't a conflict of lesser vs greater that is something versus nothing.

 

[Coyote]

Oh really?

Yeah, no.

Yeah yes.

Abortionist can say anything, abortion approved, zero scrutiny or concern, it's California.

Prove it.

Done. California will let you kill up to the moment of birth, no questions asked - you have lied.

Show me the law.

You've never heard of "shout your abortion?" I find that beyond implausible, given that it is the open and loudly proclaimed norm in pro-abort circles.

Maybe you don’t know much about pro-choice people. You certainly don’t know much about the norm. Perhaps you need to leave your echo chamber occasionally. Most of us simply want women to have a choice.

That old canard about "Safe, legal, and rare" was always bullshit - you people only wanted legal, rarity was never a concern, and contract killing literally cannot be safe.

Are you frothing at the mouth yet?

Your record is … still unbroken. Wrong again.

No one (other than maybe a tiny lunatic fringe) thinks abortion is “great”. But it is sometimes necessary and that choice belongs to the pregnant woman. Safe, legal, and rare is exactly what should be.

Provide science based sexual education.
Free/easily accessible contraception.
If she gets pregnant, offer the needed resources, support and help that might encourage a woman to keep the baby.
Then leave her alone to make a decision. You aren’t walking in her shoes.

"Idaho's total abortion ban is now in effect. Effective August 25, 2022, anyone who performs an abortion of a clinically diagnosable pregnancy is guilty of a felony unless the abortion is necessary to save the life of the pregnant woman or in the case of rape or incest."

Rape exception, ugh. Do better, Idaho. But you're wrong.

Like I thought, you are pro-forced pregnancy. Her rights do not matter.

Good? Chemotherapy drugs are extremely harmful to the person receiving them, let alone the teratogenic effects they could have on your kid - it's a bad situation, but the chemo would have to wait. I'm not even sure how this could be a question or dilemma at all.

Wow. You are essentially sentencing her to death.

Good? There is never a "right to abortion." Emergency medical triage isn't about any such absurd right.

Emergency medical triage is putting the fetus above the mother.

 

[Coyote]

First time I've mentioned that monster in a long time, actually. Tiller was skirting the law and got away with it - his method of claiming anything was for the mother's "health" and getting a rubber stamp from his partner got him through scrutiny time and time again.

Kansas would have eventually gotten that rat bastard's medical license taken away, like his partner, but he would never have been sent to prison. This isn't to condone the vigilante by any means, but Tiller certainly hasn't killed anyone else since he thankfully died.

Actually, my mistake. I was thinking of Gosnell. Tiller was the doctor you guys murdered. Tiller was harassed by the Kansas AG and cleared of false allegations.

 

[Coyote]

Nah. There is no rights conflict at all.

The kid has a right to life. The mother has parental obligations.

That isn't a conflict of lesser vs greater that is something versus nothing.

Interesting. The kid has a right to life, but not the mother.