Should forum posters who sympathize with islamic terrorists be on the watch list?

[JakeStarkey]

Should any forum poster who sympathizes with Islamic, Christian, or Jewish terrorism be on the watch list?

 

[Dajjal]

I live in England and it is a known fact that all our communications are being monitored by MI5 who have super computers dedicated to the purpose. They look for red flag words in all our email.
I dare say that America has something similar.

Some years ago I was on a British forum and I suspected another poster was fanatical, and potentially dangerous, so I wrote a letter to MI5 with a print out of their posts.

 

[Pogo]

Freedom of speech. That is what happens on this board. So in answer to your question...no. Unless someone is posting plans on terrorism against the USA. Sympathizers? Oh, no. No no. Like I said..freedom of speech.

I was glad they got the 19 year old. But I sympathized with him as well....because he is 19, was recruited by his brother, and now has a rough road in front of him all for making a huge mistake when he had it made in the country he tried to hurt worse than he already did. Should I be reported for those emotions?

Yes, you should be reported to the Emotions Police. As should Yidyap for the post after yours. Because it's all about thought control. Joe McCarthy lives.

 

[midcan5]

'Where have you gone, Joe McCarthy,
Our wingnuts turn their fearful eyes to you.
What's that you say, Ms. Sunshine.
Jolting Joe has left and taken his list away
Hey hey hey.'

Freedom is sure a confusing concept for wingnuts.

“America has always been different from Europe, having begun as a utopian religious community. Some have seen it as a dream world where you can be what you choose, others as a mirage that lures, exploits and disappoints. Some see it as a land of spiritual potential, others as a place of crass and vulgar materialism. Some see it as a mecca for creative entrepreneurs, others as a corporate oligarchy where the big eat the small and inventions helpful to the world are stifled. Some see it as the home of freedom of expression, others as a land of timorous conformity and mob-opinion rule.” Margaret Atwood answers a Martian' NYT 04/28/12 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opinion/sunday/hello-martians-this-is-america.html

 

[editec]

I mean, really. Should they? I have often wondered how they fit into the puzzle, apologizing constantly for American and sticking up for islamists who murder Americans. I ask the question without knowing whether they are already there or not.

Who are these people?

Where do they post?

 

[Pogo]

I mean, really. Should they? I have often wondered how they fit into the puzzle, apologizing constantly for American and sticking up for islamists who murder Americans. I ask the question without knowing whether they are already there or not.

Who are these people?

Where do they post?

Deep inside the OP's head. That area's kind of fenced off. In both directions.

 

[gslack]

I mean, really. Should they? I have often wondered how they fit into the puzzle, apologizing constantly for American and sticking up for islamists who murder Americans. I ask the question without knowing whether they are already there or not.

Nah, I think they need slapped though. And should get themselves into therapy for their self-loathing issues..

Personally I think it's time the Muslim world owned their own problems for a change. They shouldn't keep getting excused because as they claim "those aren't real muslims" or "they aren't like most muslims" or my personal favorite "those are just a small number of extremists"..

Comes a point where all the posturing and placating can't cover it anymore, and they will have to own it. They say they condemn these acts, but somehow they still get trained in their countries, get backed by their money, get support through them and their religion, and still commit acts like these..

The whole liberal mindset allows nearly everyone to deny responsibility for their actions. it's always something that makes it happen, a bad childhood, bad environment, hate for race, creed, color or religion. Always something that makes them do terrible things. No kiddin? Why is it if I do something wrong its my fault and I'm expected to atone for it, but when it's someone claiming a minority status through race, sexual preference or religion, it's not their fault but societies? It's because they can't stop placating and trying to be everybodies pal.

Well screw that, i don't want to be pals with a group who wants me dead just because I don't share their beliefs or want to live their lifestyle, whether they openly say it or quietly condone it.. The ridiculous part is many muslims are one of the first to complain about religious intolerance, yet show so little tolerance of others religions. If we refuse the building of a mosque here we are evil tyrants squashing religious freedom, if they deny a christian church in their country it's perfectly fine..

Seriously they are supposed to be among the oldest of civilizations, given credit for many things in science and culture in the past, and still to this day women are second class citizens, no separation of church and state, they still follow doctrine that promises them rewards of virgins in the afterlife if they die killing infidels, and have numbers rivaling any other religion, yet they still claim they are being oppressed by the world somehow..

They aren't victims, they aren't oppressed, they aren't even minorities globally. They nothing more than religious bullies using any means necessary to scare people into submission.. Their society is thousands of years older than ours, so they tell us. So how many years does it take to get your act together? How long will it be before they are actually held responsible for their actions?

I say as soon as the UN mans up and puts some real sanctions on muslim countries where terrorists are trained, funded, and camp, and stand by them, the sooner all of this crap ends. When it effects the wallets of the elite muslims globally, this nonsense will stop ASAP...

That's my opinion on it...

 

[Foxfyre]

It has been an interesting phenomenon to watch. Those who feel a deep combination of grief, anger, revulsion, and violation that any human could do such a thing to other humans in a most intentional and deliberate way vs those who are relating to the bombers and feeling compassion for them. Trying to explain them. Trying to excuse them for what they did.

Terrorism is different than artillery or bombs in time of war. When we Americans fight war, the intent is not to harm innocents but to end the danger, end aggression, stop killing and mayhem. There is no intent to harm innocents even when we know that is an unfortunate probability. In war we can and do pull our punches in an effort to minimalize danger and harm to innocent civilians as much as possible. And as Americans, we feel remorse and grief when innocents do suffer.

But we all saw the video of the bomber putting down the bag, intentionally, on purpose, near the kids, their moms, their dads who were guilty of nothing other than joyously enjoying a holiday. The intent was to hurt, kill, maim as many such people as possible.

Imagine the father finishing the race, hugging his kids, and then being just far enough away to see his son killed, his wife gravely injured, his daughter's leg blown off. This is where our sympathy and concern and focus belongs. I'm sorry but I can find no justification for such an act in my heart, and I honestly don't care why somebody would do it, who recruited him, who inspired him. I cannot see such an act as anything other than pure evil to be condemned.

Now then, after thinking about it for awhile, should those who sympathise with the bombers be on some kind of watch list? No, I don't think so. Not just for those who feel concern and compassion for the bombers, even though I think that concern and compassion is misplaced. People are going to feel what they feel; react however they react to such horrendous things. But that is neither alarming, evil, or necessarily wrong.

But those who JUSTIFY what the bombers did. Yeah. I think they bear watching. Just as a precaution.

 

[Pogo]

It has been an interesting phenomenon to watch. Those who feel a deep combination of grief, anger, revulsion, and violation that any human could do such a thing to other humans in a most intentional and deliberate way vs those who are relating to the bombers and feeling compassion for them. Trying to explain them. Trying to excuse them for what they did.

Terrorism is different than artillery or bombs in time of war. When we Americans fight war, the intent is not to harm innocents but to end the danger, end aggression, stop killing and mayhem. There is no intent to harm innocents even when we know that is an unfortunate probability. In war we can and do pull our punches in an effort to minimalize danger and harm to innocent civilians as much as possible. And as Americans, we feel remorse and grief when innocents do suffer.

But we all saw the video of the bomber putting down the bag, intentionally, on purpose, near the kids, their moms, their dads who were guilty of nothing other than joyously enjoying a holiday. The intent was to hurt, kill, maim as many such people as possible.

Imagine the father finishing the race, hugging his kids, and then being just far enough away to see his son killed, his wife gravely injured, his daughter's leg blown off. This is where our sympathy and concern and focus belongs. I'm sorry but I can find no justification for such an act in my heart, and I honestly don't care why somebody would do it, who recruited him, who inspired him. I cannot see such an act as anything other than pure evil to be condemned.

Now then, after thinking about it for awhile, should those who sympathise with the bombers be on some kind of watch list? No, I don't think so. Not just for those who feel concern and compassion for the bombers, even though I think that concern and compassion is misplaced. People are going to feel what they feel; react however they react to such horrendous things. But that is neither alarming, evil, or necessarily wrong.

But those who JUSTIFY what the bombers did. Yeah. I think they bear watching. Just as a precaution.

That's a fair theory. Unfortunately no such people exist. Fantasies of the paranarrowminded really don't count as real people. Imaginary playmates are strictly the responsibility of the imagineur. Or in this case, imagineuse.

 

[Foxfyre]

It has been an interesting phenomenon to watch. Those who feel a deep combination of grief, anger, revulsion, and violation that any human could do such a thing to other humans in a most intentional and deliberate way vs those who are relating to the bombers and feeling compassion for them. Trying to explain them. Trying to excuse them for what they did.

Terrorism is different than artillery or bombs in time of war. When we Americans fight war, the intent is not to harm innocents but to end the danger, end aggression, stop killing and mayhem. There is no intent to harm innocents even when we know that is an unfortunate probability. In war we can and do pull our punches in an effort to minimalize danger and harm to innocent civilians as much as possible. And as Americans, we feel remorse and grief when innocents do suffer.

But we all saw the video of the bomber putting down the bag, intentionally, on purpose, near the kids, their moms, their dads who were guilty of nothing other than joyously enjoying a holiday. The intent was to hurt, kill, maim as many such people as possible.

Imagine the father finishing the race, hugging his kids, and then being just far enough away to see his son killed, his wife gravely injured, his daughter's leg blown off. This is where our sympathy and concern and focus belongs. I'm sorry but I can find no justification for such an act in my heart, and I honestly don't care why somebody would do it, who recruited him, who inspired him. I cannot see such an act as anything other than pure evil to be condemned.

Now then, after thinking about it for awhile, should those who sympathise with the bombers be on some kind of watch list? No, I don't think so. Not just for those who feel concern and compassion for the bombers, even though I think that concern and compassion is misplaced. People are going to feel what they feel; react however they react to such horrendous things. But that is neither alarming, evil, or necessarily wrong.

But those who JUSTIFY what the bombers did. Yeah. I think they bear watching. Just as a precaution.

That's a fair theory. Unfortunately no such people exist. Fantasies of the paranarrowminded really don't count as real people. Imaginary playmates are strictly the responsibility of the imagineur. Or in this case, imagineuse.

Sorry, but if you read back over this and other threads on this topic, and spend any time on other message boards, you will see somebody, now and then, accusing rightwing American policies, accusing the failure of society to address the needs of such people, blaming America for creating such hatred, meddling into the affairs of other nations, support for Israel, yadda yadda. . . .

All this suggests an excuse or valid reason or some such for the actions of the terrorists. How can we blame THEM? If America had just been better, had not made them angry, then no terrorist attacks would have occurred.

THESE are the people I think are probably mostly not dangerous, but some among them are. And they bear watching.

 

[Pogo]

Now then, after thinking about it for awhile, should those who sympathise with the bombers be on some kind of watch list? No, I don't think so. Not just for those who feel concern and compassion for the bombers, even though I think that concern and compassion is misplaced. People are going to feel what they feel; react however they react to such horrendous things. But that is neither alarming, evil, or necessarily wrong.

But those who JUSTIFY what the bombers did. Yeah. I think they bear watching. Just as a precaution.

That's a fair theory. Unfortunately no such people exist. Fantasies of the paranarrowminded really don't count as real people. Imaginary playmates are strictly the responsibility of the imagineur. Or in this case, imagineuse.

Sorry, but if you read back over this and other threads on this topic, and spend any time on other message boards, you will see somebody, now and then, accusing rightwing American policies, accusing the failure of society to address the needs of such people, blaming America for creating such hatred, meddling into the affairs of other nations, support for Israel, yadda yadda. . . .

All this suggests an excuse or valid reason or some such for the actions of the terrorists. How can we blame THEM? If America had just been better, had not made them angry, then no terrorist attacks would have occurred.

THESE are the people I think are probably mostly not dangerous, but some among them are. And they bear watching.

Sorry, that's a vast leap. None of that can be interpreted as "justification" of a bombing. Explaining the dynamics of cause and effect and justifying the end action are two entirely different things that some of our simpler rabblerouser minds love to deliberately conflate. My guess is it's because they're too intellectually lazy to grasp these complexities. I surmise that because these rabblerousers follow that same pattern elsewhere.

"Suggestion" just ain't good enough when the suggester is driven by such an agenda. Moreover, it leaves no room for interpretation of those causal effects if they're just going to be condemned as "justification". That's nothing more than a form of attempted censorship by intimidation. If that's the reason for flame threads like this, rather than intellectual sloth, then that's even worse. There are those who just can't stand that there may be others whose opinions vary from their own, and they're out to squash those opinions by any means available, no matter how dishonest.

The proof is in the pudding, and I see nothing on the spoon. Nothing I've read quoted in either of these wacko threads qualifies. But please, do post examples where anybody justifies bombings...

 

[Foxfyre]

That's a fair theory. Unfortunately no such people exist. Fantasies of the paranarrowminded really don't count as real people. Imaginary playmates are strictly the responsibility of the imagineur. Or in this case, imagineuse.

Sorry, but if you read back over this and other threads on this topic, and spend any time on other message boards, you will see somebody, now and then, accusing rightwing American policies, accusing the failure of society to address the needs of such people, blaming America for creating such hatred, meddling into the affairs of other nations, support for Israel, yadda yadda. . . .

All this suggests an excuse or valid reason or some such for the actions of the terrorists. How can we blame THEM? If America had just been better, had not made them angry, then no terrorist attacks would have occurred.

THESE are the people I think are probably mostly not dangerous, but some among them are. And they bear watching.

Sorry, that's a vast leap. None of that can be interpreted as "justification" of a bombing. Explaining the dynamics of cause and effect and justifying the end action are two entirely different things that some of our simpler rabblerouser minds love to conflate. My guess is it's because they're too intellectually lazy to grasp these complexities. I surmise that because these rabblerousers follow that same pattern elsewhere.

"Suggestion" just ain't good enough when the suggester is driven by such an agenda. Moreover, it leaves no room for interpretation of those causal effects if they're just going to be condemned as "justification". That's nothing more than a form of attempted censorship by intimidation. If that's the reason for flame threads like this, rather than intellectual sloth, then that's even worse.

The proof is in the pudding, and I see nothing on the spoon. But please, do post examples where anybody justifies bombings...

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. (Which isn't all that unusual for you and me. ) I don't see the thread topic as at all improper or inflammatory as this topic is being discussed on media pretty much everywhere. At least on media that is willing to acknowledge that there are terrorists out there.

But for me, anybody who would blame America's policies as as justification for the act, and who refuses to condemn the terrorists themselves for the act, has their head in the wrong place. That does not in itself mean such people are dangerous, but it is a red flag that in my opinion justifies some attention and watching.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I think that I am somewhere between Foxfyre and Pogo on this.

Certain American foreign policies need to be curtailed.

No terrorist should get a walk because s/he is upset with American policy so he kills children.

 

[Pogo]

I think that I am somewhere between Foxfyre and Pogo on this.

Certain American foreign policies need to be curtailed.

No terrorist should get a walk because s/he is upset with American policy so he kills children.

That would put you with me, Jake. It might in fact put us all three together; Foxy hasn't ruled that out. And none of us, or any poster anywhere, has suggested your last sentence.

The thing is, various posters have been asking since Page 1 who these phantom posters might be, and got crickets in response. I just asked Foxy the same question and got the same crickets. Do these posters actually exist, or do they not? Apparently they do not.

The thread is pretty much a rehash of this other strange thread from the same OP that was a silly demonization factory of used quotes from other threads taken out of context, all with some vague threats of "gubmint boogeyman gone git you" for the thoughtcrime of daring to think about the dynamics of international politics or for generally declining to swim with the lemmings in an orgasmic McCarthyite "my country right or wrong" jingo dance. I read all of those extrathreadial quotes in that thread, and the sum total of bomb-justifiers is still holding at flat Zero.

All of which indicates both of these threads are just two prongs of ignorant divisive fearmongering bullshit, posted, again, by those too-familiar elements who are so consumed by their own hatred that they're bent on demonizing anyone who declines to join them in that intellectual cesspool.

No, a mistake is claiming forum posters are ‘sympathizing’ with Islamic terrorists, when in fact they’re making the accurate observation that not all Muslims are terrorists. Then to advocate that they be placed on a ‘watch list’ absent any evidence, simply because they don’t conform to your ignorance and hate concerning Islam.

That’s a mistake.

I don't see you and me and Foxy as different "sides" at all. We're all Americans; we're all patriotic; we're all adversely impacted when terrorism strikes, and we all want an end to it, however we see the means to that end.

But those who would invent demons (that they can't prove) for the purpose of inserting a wedge to divide us from each other, who would detach us from that unity and that goal, THEY are the other side as far as these threads are concerned.

Dissent is patriotic. And bigotry can go burn in hell.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think that I am somewhere between Foxfyre and Pogo on this.

Certain American foreign policies need to be curtailed.

No terrorist should get a walk because s/he is upset with American policy so he kills children.

That would put you with me, Jake. It might in fact put us all three together; Foxy hasn't ruled that out. And none of us, or any poster anywhere, has suggested your last sentence.

The thing is, various posters have been asking since Page 1 who these phantom posters might be, and got crickets in response. I just asked Foxy the same question and got the same crickets. Do these posters actually exist, or do they not? Apparently they do not.

The thread is pretty much a rehash of this other strange thread from the same OP that was a silly demonization factory of used quotes from other threads taken out of context, all with some vague threats of "gubmint boogeyman gone git you" for the thoughtcrime of daring to think about the dynamics of international politics or for generally declining to swim with the lemmings in an orgasmic McCarthyite "my country right or wrong" jingo dance. I read all of those extrathreadial quotes in that thread, and the sum total of bomb-justifiers is still holding at flat Zero.

All of which indicates both of these threads are just two prongs of ignorant divisive fearmongering bullshit, posted, again, by those too-familiar elements who are so consumed by their own hatred that they're bent on demonizing anyone who declines to join them in that intellectual cesspool.

No, a mistake is claiming forum posters are ‘sympathizing’ with Islamic terrorists, when in fact they’re making the accurate observation that not all Muslims are terrorists. Then to advocate that they be placed on a ‘watch list’ absent any evidence, simply because they don’t conform to your ignorance and hate concerning Islam.

That’s a mistake.

I don't see you and me and Foxy as different "sides" at all. We're all Americans; we're all patriotic; we're all adversely impacted when terrorism strikes, and we all want an end to it, however we see the means to that end.

But those who would invent demons (that they can't prove) for the purpose of inserting a wedge to divide us from each other, who would detach us from that unity and that goal, THEY are the other side as far as these threads are concerned.

Dissent is patriotic. And bigotry can go burn in hell.

You didn't get crickets from me. I believe I saw the posts earlier in this thread and I KNOW I have seen them in other places, and you're pretty sure I haven't, but I honestly don't care enough to go back through all the pages and posts and hunt them up.

But I do beieve that those who would excuse or explain or express sympathy with terrorists because of the evil activities of an evil, greedy or whatever America should be on a watch list. That isn't the same as making them a person of interest subject ot arrest or being on a 'no fly' list or any other hindrance to their civil liberties. It is simply a precaution of keeping an eye on those who have more problem with America and Americans than they do with terrorists.

 

[Pogo]

I think that I am somewhere between Foxfyre and Pogo on this.

Certain American foreign policies need to be curtailed.

No terrorist should get a walk because s/he is upset with American policy so he kills children.

That would put you with me, Jake. It might in fact put us all three together; Foxy hasn't ruled that out. And none of us, or any poster anywhere, has suggested your last sentence.

The thing is, various posters have been asking since Page 1 who these phantom posters might be, and got crickets in response. I just asked Foxy the same question and got the same crickets. Do these posters actually exist, or do they not? Apparently they do not.

The thread is pretty much a rehash of this other strange thread from the same OP that was a silly demonization factory of used quotes from other threads taken out of context, all with some vague threats of "gubmint boogeyman gone git you" for the thoughtcrime of daring to think about the dynamics of international politics or for generally declining to swim with the lemmings in an orgasmic McCarthyite "my country right or wrong" jingo dance. I read all of those extrathreadial quotes in that thread, and the sum total of bomb-justifiers is still holding at flat Zero.

All of which indicates both of these threads are just two prongs of ignorant divisive fearmongering bullshit, posted, again, by those too-familiar elements who are so consumed by their own hatred that they're bent on demonizing anyone who declines to join them in that intellectual cesspool.

No, a mistake is claiming forum posters are ‘sympathizing’ with Islamic terrorists, when in fact they’re making the accurate observation that not all Muslims are terrorists. Then to advocate that they be placed on a ‘watch list’ absent any evidence, simply because they don’t conform to your ignorance and hate concerning Islam.

That’s a mistake.

I don't see you and me and Foxy as different "sides" at all. We're all Americans; we're all patriotic; we're all adversely impacted when terrorism strikes, and we all want an end to it, however we see the means to that end.

But those who would invent demons (that they can't prove) for the purpose of inserting a wedge to divide us from each other, who would detach us from that unity and that goal, THEY are the other side as far as these threads are concerned.

Dissent is patriotic. And bigotry can go burn in hell.

You didn't get crickets from me. I believe I saw the posts earlier in this thread and I KNOW I have seen them in other places, and you're pretty sure I haven't, but I honestly don't care enough to go back through all the pages and posts and hunt them up.

Oh, I know this song. It's on YouTube:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN3yJXlWrg]Sounds of Night Crickets - YouTube[/ame]

Again, either these posters exist, or they do not.

In that absence, what this thread and the other wacko one that preceded it are about, is nothing more than veiled jingoistic threats that "you better not pout" about your government, or you'll be put on some watch list. But of course that's nothing like the thought police of Soviet Russia or contemporary North Korea or the McCarthyist early 1950s, nooooooooo.....

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I wouldn't. People say alot of crazy things. I wouldn't take it all that seriously.

Well put and exactly how I feel about bible thumpers. Leave them to their delusions and slam the door in their face on Saturday mornings.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Suggestion: the truly insane op should get in touch with Ted Cruz.

He's our latest McCarthy-wanabe and my bet is he'd love an excuse to scatter a bit more of his shit on the Constitution.

Serious question to OP - Are you friggin nuts?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I live in England and it is a known fact that all our communications are being monitored by MI5 who have super computers dedicated to the purpose. They look for red flag words in all our email.
I dare say that America has something similar.

Some years ago I was on a British forum and I suspected another poster was fanatical, and potentially dangerous, so I wrote a letter to MI5 with a print out of their posts.

Actually, this was in the news a few years ago. Software designed to pick certain words off your hard drive and send alerts to the govt. Then, gDumya made it permanent with the (not very) Patriot Act.

A sad truth is that, once a law like that is in place, its almost impossible to repeal. What is that maxim about fascism spouting religion and wrapped in a flag. The Bushes personify that.

 

[Pogo]

I live in England and it is a known fact that all our communications are being monitored by MI5 who have super computers dedicated to the purpose. They look for red flag words in all our email.
I dare say that America has something similar.

Some years ago I was on a British forum and I suspected another poster was fanatical, and potentially dangerous, so I wrote a letter to MI5 with a print out of their posts.

Actually, this was in the news a few years ago. Software designed to pick certain words off your hard drive and send alerts to the govt. Then, gDumya made it permanent with the (not very) Patriot Act.

A sad truth is that, once a law like that is in place, its almost impossible to repeal. What is that maxim about fascism spouting religion and wrapped in a flag. The Bushes personify that.

The quote goes, "when fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross" -- commonly misattributed to Sinclair Lewis. This site gives some background, including this interesting column published 1938:

While Lewis didn't originate the phrase, he did express similar sentiments, particularly in "It Can't Happen Here" (1935). Of course, substitute "swastika" for "flag" in that sentence and you have the background to Nazi Germany.

Here's another one Sinclair Lewis didn't say:
"When they came to put the critics on a "watch list" I said nothing......."