Seniors Go Ahead and Die already!!

[Political Junky]

Emma, here you are, intelligent, and clearly well versed in healthcare, but cannot see the clear dots that have to be connected.

Totalist philosophies have, as their hallmark, been for 'the people,' but opposed to the individual.

That is the clear difference as compared to democracy.

Here we have an administration which claims to provide better healthcare at a lower cost. Logic and experience must tell you that the material quoted by Navy has as its money saving key the reduction of services, and we can see who will shoulder the reduction.

One of the posts above actually posits that old folks really want to die, and the language is just trying to codify their wishes.

Shocking and absurd.

Let me pose a hypothetical, but one based on history in the healthcare field, and you tell me the different future that you can see:

The probable, not definite, not possible, but probable, result of the instituting of the ObamaCare Healthcare Plan. The 'Public Option,' and ultimately all plans will use capitation to save money:

1. Capitation, also called bundling, is a fixed payment remitted at regular intervals to a medical provider by a managed care organization for an enrolled patient.
a. The primary care physician gets a fixed payment based on the number of patients signed up by him, or assigned to him.
b. The payment is whether or not the patients are seen. So if the payment is $10, but it costs the doctor $50 to see the patient, he will limit the number of public plan patients he sees.
c. The patient will require a referral to see a specialist, and the program will deduct payment from the doctor for each such referral.
d. Thus the primary care physician is incentivized not to see patients nor to refer to specialists.

2. While this was the procedure in the early days of HMO’s, to institute it today does not recognize current demographics.
a. While younger patients can withstand longer waits for an appointment, and would probably recover from a flu, or sprain, this is not the case for our older population.
b. The nature of the complaint often involves more serious medical problems, as the elderly have more diabetes, circulatory, and malignancies.
c. While current medical environment requires more frequent visits, the plan in question inveighs against this.

Hmmmm.....I wonder who she is referring to about, "their wishes". Because I've treated probably at least 1,000 patients with DNR status.....I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. I'll give her one thing....she knows about the business and impersonal aspect of healthcare. But she knows nothing about the personal aspect, it seems.

I wasn't trying to hide who I was referring to.

But if you are justifying an absurd idea that the elderly really want to die, then why do they go to a physician in the first place?

Sorry, MS, you have a good heart, but absolutely no understanding of human nature. And those are exactly the criteria manupulated by the lefties in this administration.

Lenin had an apt phrase for those kind of folks, who could be convinced that the collective was more important than the individual.

Manupulated?

"Sorry, MS, you have a good heart, but absolutely no understanding of human nature. And those are exactly the criteria manupulated[sic] by the lefties in this administration."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hmmmm.....I wonder who she is referring to about, "their wishes". Because I've treated probably at least 1,000 patients with DNR status.....I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. I'll give her one thing....she knows about the business and impersonal aspect of healthcare. But she knows nothing about the personal aspect, it seems.

I wasn't trying to hide who I was referring to.

But if you are justifying an absurd idea that the elderly really want to die, then why do they go to a physician in the first place?

Sorry, MS, you have a good heart, but absolutely no understanding of human nature. And those are exactly the criteria manupulated by the lefties in this administration.

Lenin had an apt phrase for those kind of folks, who could be convinced that the collective was more important than the individual.

Manupulated?

"Sorry, MS, you have a good heart, but absolutely no understanding of human nature. And those are exactly the criteria manupulated[sic] by the lefties in this administration."

Ya' got me.

Sorry about the spelling error.

 

[Emma]

"I believe that the reason that this has been placed in the bill, is not to kill the elderly. It is to respect their wishes."

Shocking and absurd.

First, my apologies to her. I didn't realize she is a she.

Second, what is so 'shocking and absurd' about respecting someone's wishes and honoring an advance directive?

Nothing at all, thanks.

Of course not. I don't understand why she thinks so.

 

[Navy1960]

WASHINGTON – Eight out of 10 Americans are concerned about access to care for seniors and baby boomers due the physician payment cuts scheduled for July 1, according to a poll conducted by the American Medical Association.


Payments to physicians will be cut by 10.6 percent in July, and those cuts are expected to grow to about 40 percent while medical practice costs are expected to increase by 20 percent.
Poll: public worried about Medicare cuts, effects on seniors, boomers | Healthcare Finance News

Even Obama has seen that his proposals are causing concern among Seniors to such a degree he feels the need to go to the AARP and address these concerns. Seniors are rightly justified in their fear of this healthcare plan who aim is to cover as many people as possible in the hopes that it will somehow lower costs to all at the expense of those Americans who have paid all their lives into SS and Medicare .
"As physicians, we are terribly concerned about how these Medicare cuts will impact our senior patients," said AMA board member William A. Hazel, MD. "Seniors and boomers are concerned, too. Our new poll shows that 88 percent of current Medicare patients are worried about how the cuts will impact their access to health care."

The first wave of baby boomers will be eligible for Medicare in three years when they turn 65.

Seniors who rely on Medicare will be hurt by the cuts, as 60 percent of physicians say this year's cut alone will force them to limit the number of new Medicare patients they can treat. Already 30 percent of Medicare patients looking for a new primary care physician are having trouble finding one, and the cuts will make access woes much worse, the AMA said

 

[PoliticalChic]

My apologies. In New York, the forms are referred to as MOLST forms. We call them POST forms, in TN.

Here's a link:
Compassion and Support - End-of-Life and Palliative Care Planning, MOLST for New York State

Whether we like it or not, we are all going to have to make that decision eventually.

Way off topic, but whenever I see your "MSKafka," I mean to tell you about a book that I recently finished.

If you liked "The Trial," or are just interested in existentialism, try to get hold of "The Monster of Florence," by Mario Spezi.

The book is not fiction.

And is superficially about a serial killer in Italy, but is more a reflection on the judicial system of Italy, and is amazingly similar to "The Trial."

 

[HUGGY]

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
14sumers and their families with advance care plan
15ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad
16vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

It's called a living will. If you were not such a reactionary putz you might think before complaining about something everyone should consider doing..

 

[Navy1960]

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
14sumers and their families with advance care plan
15ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad
16vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

It's called a living will. If you were not such a reactionary putz you might think before complaining about something everyone should consider doing..

I see your still engaging that hole under your nose before you engage that air between your ears Huggy. I'm well aware of what a living will is and what it does, if you had taken the time to actually read the entire posting you would have seen that, however I forget sometimes when someone is so blinded they don't take the time to actually understand what they are reading. So like a child as as I usally have to do with you, I will put up a definition of the term Advance Planning so you can understand it.

1. Current law
Given the characteristically slow progress of the
disease, someone diagnosed with probable AD
usually will have the opportunity to make plans for a
time when he or she no longer is able to make health
care decisions personally. This process, often called
advance care planning, seeks to have the last portion
of a person’s life reflect the person’s values, ideas,
and hopes. As summarized in one of the “principles of
palliative care” developed by Last Acts, advance care
planning “finds out from you who you want to help plan
and give you care, ... helps you figure out what is
important, [and] tries to meet your likes and dislikes:
where you get health care, where you want to live, and
the kinds of services you want.”

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Healthpol/alzchap4.pdf

So again if you had bothered to read rather than putting your childish comments to this thread you would have also seen that I had posted , that this issue is a family matter and have not advocated it's exclusion in anyway. So now, that this has been said, please show us all your retort by a rant of expletives that show everyone your maturity and abilities to debate on an adult level.

 

[HUGGY]

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION.
6 (a) MEDICARE.—
7 (1) IN GENERAL.—Section 1861 of the Social
8 Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395x) is amended—
9 (A) in subsection (s)(2)—
10 (i) by striking ‘‘and’’ at the end of
11 subparagraph (DD);
12 (ii) by adding ‘‘and’’ at the end of
13 subparagraph (EE); and
14 (iii) by adding at the end the fol15
lowing new subparagraph:
16 ‘‘(FF) advance care planning consultation (as
17 defined in subsection (hhh)(1));’’; and
18 (B) by adding at the end the following new
19 subsection:
20 ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation
21 ‘‘(hhh)(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the
22 term ‘advance care planning consultation’ means a con
23sultation between the individual and a practitioner de
24scribed in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning,
25 if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has

1 not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such
2 consultation shall include the following:
3 ‘‘(A) An explanation by the practitioner of ad4
vance care planning, including key questions and
5 considerations, important steps, and suggested peo6
ple to talk to.
7 ‘‘(B) An explanation by the practitioner of ad8
vance directives, including living wills and durable
9 powers of attorney, and their uses.
10 ‘‘(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the
11 role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.
12 ‘‘(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list
13 of national and State-specific resources to assist con
14sumers and their families with advance care plan
15ning, including the national toll-free hotline, the ad
16vance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal
17 service organizations (including those funded
18 through the Older Americans Act of 1965).
19 ‘‘(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the
20 continuum of end-of-life services and supports avail
21able, including palliative care and hospice, and bene
22 fits for such services and supports that are available
23 under this title.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

This section of the House bill deals with Advance planning and basically says to Seniors that rather than provide medical care , under the bill those under Medicare are entitled to consultation and other services. , basically just go ahead and die!! It's this sort of thing that is buried deep in the bill that people in their zeal for personal comfort would willingly hand over to the Govt.

It's called a living will. If you were not such a reactionary putz you might think before complaining about something everyone should consider doing..

I see your still engaging that hole under your nose before you engage that air between your ears Huggy. I'm well aware of what a living will is and what it does, if you had taken the time to actually read the entire posting you would have seen that, however I forget sometimes when someone is so blinded they don't take the time to actually understand what they are reading. So like a child as as I usally have to do with you, I will put up a definition of the term Advance Planning so you can understand it.

1. Current law
Given the characteristically slow progress of the
disease, someone diagnosed with probable AD
usually will have the opportunity to make plans for a
time when he or she no longer is able to make health
care decisions personally. This process, often called
advance care planning, seeks to have the last portion
of a person’s life reflect the person’s values, ideas,
and hopes. As summarized in one of the “principles of
palliative care” developed by Last Acts, advance care
planning “finds out from you who you want to help plan
and give you care, ... helps you figure out what is
important, [and] tries to meet your likes and dislikes:
where you get health care, where you want to live, and
the kinds of services you want.”

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Healthpol/alzchap4.pdf

So again if you had bothered to read rather than putting your childish comments to this thread you would have also seen that I had posted , that this issue is a family matter and have not advocated it's exclusion in anyway. So now, that this has been said, please show us all your retort by a rant of expletives that show everyone your maturity and abilities to debate on an adult level.

Aren't you the clever one. What I am debating is this. Seniors Go Ahead and Die already!!

So what was your point?

Displaying missinformation such as the leader to the main information is bullshit.

I digested the bulk of your post to the living will. And your problem with that was.....?

your maturity and abilities to debate on an adult level

I can debate on any level you are up for ya fuckin moron.

Liars like you make it easy. You always expose your weaknesses and that any child could debate. Unfortunately for you I am not a child.

 

[Navy1960]

It's called a living will. If you were not such a reactionary putz you might think before complaining about something everyone should consider doing..

I see your still engaging that hole under your nose before you engage that air between your ears Huggy. I'm well aware of what a living will is and what it does, if you had taken the time to actually read the entire posting you would have seen that, however I forget sometimes when someone is so blinded they don't take the time to actually understand what they are reading. So like a child as as I usally have to do with you, I will put up a definition of the term Advance Planning so you can understand it.

1. Current law
Given the characteristically slow progress of the
disease, someone diagnosed with probable AD
usually will have the opportunity to make plans for a
time when he or she no longer is able to make health
care decisions personally. This process, often called
advance care planning, seeks to have the last portion
of a person’s life reflect the person’s values, ideas,
and hopes. As summarized in one of the “principles of
palliative care” developed by Last Acts, advance care
planning “finds out from you who you want to help plan
and give you care, ... helps you figure out what is
important, [and] tries to meet your likes and dislikes:
where you get health care, where you want to live, and
the kinds of services you want.”

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Healthpol/alzchap4.pdf

So again if you had bothered to read rather than putting your childish comments to this thread you would have also seen that I had posted , that this issue is a family matter and have not advocated it's exclusion in anyway. So now, that this has been said, please show us all your retort by a rant of expletives that show everyone your maturity and abilities to debate on an adult level.

Aren't you the clever one. What I am debating is this. Seniors Go Ahead and Die already!!

So what was your point?

Displaying missinformation such as the leader to the main information is bullshit.

I digested the bulk of your post to the living will. And your problem with that was.....?

your maturity and abilities to debate on an adult level

I can debate on any level you are up for ya fuckin moron.

Liars like you make it easy. You always expose your weaknesses and that any child could debate. Unfortunately for you I am not a child.

I think I made my point rather well, and your answer has reinforced my point rather well as to your level of maturity. On the abiility to debate , you do realize that debating does not consist of who can call names the best right? I invite you to read the thread if your capable of doing that and then explaining why you think that my posting does not leave Seniors with the impression that this bill would rather have them "die" . In case your unable to "digest" this, let me help you, through amending the SSA and cuts in Medicare and a requirement for end of life planning, this bill and sections such as the one I posted leave Seniors with that impression. So rather than comming back with a stunning and deeply thought out answer like "bullshit" how about you actually do some homework and tell me why thats not so, if your capable of doing that without a display of immaturity.

"I understand people being scared that this is going to be way too costly," Barack Obama @AARP

Reporting from Washington — Under pressure to pay for his ambitious reshaping of the nation's healthcare system, President Obama today will outline $313 billion in Medicare and Medicaid spending cuts over the next decade to help cover the cost of expanding coverage to tens of millions of America's uninsured.

The proposal comes on top of more than $634 billion in new revenue Obama suggested reserving for healthcare in his February budget plan.
Obama to outline $313 billion in Medicare, Medicaid spending cuts - Los Angeles Times

Then a week later...

On Tuesday, President Obama pitched Democrats' health reform plans to senior citizens and assured them that Medicare benefits would not be cut to pay for covering the uninsured, the New York Times reports. Meanwhile, members of Congress said they were "deluged" with constituent calls expressing concern over the future of their Medicare coverage.

The Times adds: "Speaking at a town-hall-style meeting organized by AARP, Mr. Obama said his proposals would slow the growth of health spending and avoid the need for future cuts in Medicare, the insurance program for 45 million people who are 65 and older or disabled

Obama Defends Reform To Seniors Worried About Medicare Cuts - Kaiser Health News


The previous bill section I posted revises the SSA for end of life counseling...

“The bill also requires mandated visits between doctors and elderly patients periodically to discuss end of life,” Fleming continued. “And if you’re in a nursing home, the requirement is even more frequent. That means euthanasia — that we need to be talking to the elderly about the fact that maybe they’re using up more resources and that perhaps they should not use more health care resources and allow younger, healthier people to use that resource money. That’s the kind of savings the President wants to have. As a physician, I am definitely against that.”

Congressman Fleming Confirms Mandatory End-Of-Life Consultations in Health Care Bill | Jason A Clark


If this does not make it clear enough for you Huggy and I rather doubt it will as to the intentions of the post , then of course your welcome to disagree which would not surprise me in the least.

 

[Luissa]

WASHINGTON – Eight out of 10 Americans are concerned about access to care for seniors and baby boomers due the physician payment cuts scheduled for July 1, according to a poll conducted by the American Medical Association.


Payments to physicians will be cut by 10.6 percent in July, and those cuts are expected to grow to about 40 percent while medical practice costs are expected to increase by 20 percent.
Poll: public worried about Medicare cuts, effects on seniors, boomers | Healthcare Finance News

Even Obama has seen that his proposals are causing concern among Seniors to such a degree he feels the need to go to the AARP and address these concerns. Seniors are rightly justified in their fear of this healthcare plan who aim is to cover as many people as possible in the hopes that it will somehow lower costs to all at the expense of those Americans who have paid all their lives into SS and Medicare .
"As physicians, we are terribly concerned about how these Medicare cuts will impact our senior patients," said AMA board member William A. Hazel, MD. "Seniors and boomers are concerned, too. Our new poll shows that 88 percent of current Medicare patients are worried about how the cuts will impact their access to health care."

The first wave of baby boomers will be eligible for Medicare in three years when they turn 65.

Seniors who rely on Medicare will be hurt by the cuts, as 60 percent of physicians say this year's cut alone will force them to limit the number of new Medicare patients they can treat. Already 30 percent of Medicare patients looking for a new primary care physician are having trouble finding one, and the cuts will make access woes much worse, the AMA said

The doctors would not have a problem if they didn't recommend procedures that are not needed. Prime example is the situation I posted before about a doctor doing a total hip replacement for a women who was on hospice in the first place with congestive heart failure and end stage dementia. Those doctor's had a free pass before, I figured you would like this Navy since you are a big Reagan fan whom I might add loved to cut social programs.
These doctor's are over prescribing the elderly medication they don't need along with treatment they don't need. I took care of another lady who also had end stage dementia, in the morning she would take 16 different types of meds, 14 at lunch, and eight pm meds.
Another lady who was on medicare I might add had end stage dementia also and was diagnosed with breast cancer and her doctor allowed her to go through chemo therapy. The lady had no idea she even had cancer because of course she would forget anytime someone told her, she had no idea why she felt like crap all the time which was caused by the chemo therapy.
So instead of re evaluting their practices and trying to cut spending in regards to un needed care, they will just cut the patient.

 

[mskafka]

My apologies. In New York, the forms are referred to as MOLST forms. We call them POST forms, in TN.

Here's a link:
Compassion and Support - End-of-Life and Palliative Care Planning, MOLST for New York State

Whether we like it or not, we are all going to have to make that decision eventually.

Way off topic, but whenever I see your "MSKafka," I mean to tell you about a book that I recently finished.

If you liked "The Trial," or are just interested in existentialism, try to get hold of "The Monster of Florence," by Mario Spezi.

The book is not fiction.

And is superficially about a serial killer in Italy, but is more a reflection on the judicial system of Italy, and is amazingly similar to "The Trial."

OMG! I guess this is the same as Hillary referring to Dr. Kevorkian in a debate. It's apples and oranges Chic.

Now if I were to be in favor of having those over 65 line up to mainline sodium pentathol, I could see your argument. That's quite a different story.

 

[mskafka]

Both my parents are close to 60. I do dearly love my parents. My mother is a nurse, and has reminded me repeatedly that she does not want a feeding tube. She doesn't want to lay in her own excrement for 10 years with upper and lower extremity contractures. I am going to respect her wishes. Which means that if the above happens to her, that I am not going to allow someone to artificially feed her, change her diapers (literally), and all of the other indignities that go along with someone who is post CVA, or any other horrible medical anomoly.

I'm sure that it probably does sound cold-hearted to you chic. And it's not something that anyone likes to think of.

 

[publicprotector]

The way things are going in the US you will not need to worry about old age and ill health.

 

[xotoxi]

But if you are justifying an absurd idea that the elderly really want to die, then why do they go to a physician in the first place?

That wasn't his point.

It's a her.

MSKafka.

In post #54:
"I believe that the reason that this has been placed in the bill, is not to kill the elderly. It is to respect their wishes."

Shocking and absurd.

Democrat 'philosophers' claim that it is the patriotic duty of the elderly to die.

Are you in favor of making the DNR status illegal?

If not, are you in favor of not allowing them to discuss their wishes with their physicians?

 

[xotoxi]

...would have to admit that doing away with our seniors is part and parcel of their 'health' plan?

 

[mskafka]

The way things are going in the US you will not need to worry about old age and ill health.

I am concerned about H1N1....this coming fall. I've got a bad feeling about it, and I hope that it's just plain paranoia. My great-grandfather died of Spanish Influenza in 1918. He had no money, so he couldn't afford to see a physician. He couldn't even afford an aspirin, according to some of my older relatives. So he just suffered until the infection finally overcame him. I think that this is another reason that I am for everyone having access to healthcare. Even though things aren't as bad now, as they were then, I still feel for those in poverty. It just doesn't seem fair.

 

[Luissa]

we had a lady visiting from Alaska die from H1N1 here last week.

 

[mskafka]

we had a lady visiting from Alaska die from H1N1 here last week.

As much as I would love to be complacent in the idea that it's no more virulent than the typical flu, the big man in the sky has thrown us many curves in the past. My understanding is that experts aren't concerned about the virus in its current state. They are concerned that it could potentially evolve into something more virulent.

Let's just hope and pray that it doesn't. I dread working this winter.

 

[Emma]

That wasn't his point.

It's a her.

MSKafka.

In post #54:
"I believe that the reason that this has been placed in the bill, is not to kill the elderly. It is to respect their wishes."

Shocking and absurd.

Democrat 'philosophers' claim that it is the patriotic duty of the elderly to die.

Are you in favor of making the DNR status illegal?

If not, are you in favor of not allowing them to discuss their wishes with their physicians?

I've asked twice why she found that so 'shocking and absurd'. No answer as yet.

 

[Old Rocks]

What Political Chick finds 'shocking and absurb' is the fact that a Democrat was voted in with 365 electorial votes at the same time as 60 Dem Senators, and 265 Dem Reps. And that they would actually try to do something for the citizens of this nation. Worst yet, instead of borrowing from China, while cutting taxes on the very wealthy, the Democrats might actually adapt the sensible policy of Tax and Spend. After all, if you are going to spend, you are going to have to tax, that is the only income that government has.