Roosevelt's Greatest Blunder

[regent]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

So saith Joseph Stalin.

 

[Dot Com]

1. In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.



Lend lease was a mistake in that it prioritized materials for Russia that were sorely needed by American troops.

Allowing Stalin to determine the location of a 'second front' over the objections of American generals, and of Winston Churchill, was a mistake.

But the worst blunderwas bowing to Stalin's demands that Germany be pulverized, reduced to ashes, rather than be allowed to surrender.....the doctrine of 'unconditional surrender'....was the very worst.



2. Franklin Roosevelt was known to fabricate all sorts of things...that he wrote Haiti's constitution, that his cabinet would be made to swear to a balanced budget, that he came up with the idea of 'Lend Lease,'....none of which are true.
He also put out the idea that 'unconditional surrender' of Germany originated with him.

Robert Sherwood, Harry Hopkins official biographer, quotes Roosevelt as saying "The thought popped into my mind...and the next thing I knew I had said it."
Sherwood, "The White House Papers of Harry L. Hopkins; Vol II," p. 693



Actually, the policy was first mentioned in January of 1943, at the Casablanca Conference.

a. The State Department Casablanca Conference records explains that this controversial surrender policy came from a meeting of a State Department and Council on Foreign Relations panel.

BTW....that was the same panel with "...working alongside him in the Council was Alger Hiss, a newly elected member sympathetic to the left wing of the Democratic Party,..."
The group functioned via this mantra: "Cooperation between the United States and the Soviet Union is as essential as almost anything in the world today, and unless and until it becomes entirely evident that the U.S.S.R. is not interested in achieving cooperation, we must redouble, not abandon, our efforts, when the task proves difficult." http://www.cfr.org/about/history/cfr/first_transformation.html


Since the group briefed Roosevelt prior to January 1943, clearly the idea of 'unconditional surrender did not originate with Roosevelt.
Churchill knew nothing of the plan.


3. Actually, the very first use of the phrase 'unconditional surrender" at Casablanca was by Harry Hopkins. One day earlier, January 23, before the President announced it, Hopkins told the grand vizier of Morocco, "The war will be pursued until Germany, Italy, and Japan agree to unconditional surrender."
"Harry Hopkins: Ally of the Poor and Defender of Democracy," by George McJimsey, p.277
and FRUS: Washington and Casablanca, p. 703.



4. When, on January 24, 1943, Roosevelt read several pages of notes discussing the doctrine to reporters, according to Sherwood, "carefully prepared in advance,"...one might ask who regularly prepared and edited said notes.

a. Harry Hopkins,- FDR's alter ego, co-president, or Rasputin, "...the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was a Soviet agent." and “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins
The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins


b. Life magazine ran a spread on Hopkins on September 22, 1941, calling his a one-man cabinet to Roosevelt. In fact, he lived at the White House, in the Lincoln Bedroom, from May 1940 to December 1943.
LIFE - Google Books, p. 93.

c. Elliott [Roosevelt, FDR's son] attributes this comment to his father: "Of course, it's just the thing for the Russians. They couldn't want anything better. Unconditional surrender! Uncle Joe might have made it up himself."
Manly, "The Twenty Year Revolution," p.122




And so was born Allied doctrine.
And the policy that ensured Soviet domination over half of Europe....at the cost of American lives and treasure....

Any guess as to where the policy actually originated?

You know nothing about our period in history, nor do you have any connection to that period in history, just right wing cut and past drivel
Try speaking and learning from people who lived at that time and what the country was going through and how FDR gave hope to a nation and helped win the war against the fascists

PoliticalSpice is obsessed w/ pinning the "COMMIE!!!" label on one of this great nation's finest Presidents.

 

[Camp]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

So saith Joseph Stalin.

So saith everyone at the time. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure to make a deal with the NAZI criminals. A lot of lives were lost and a lot of grief was endured to bring the NAZI's to the point of wanting to surrender. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure so that Hitler and his henchmen could continue with life like the war to that date was just a bump in the road.

 

[rightwinger]

Another PC thread where she bemoans the fact that we sided with the Soviets instead of the Nazis

Political Chic does love those Concentration camps

 

[oldfart]

FDR offered up 150,000 and Stalin offered up 10 million casualties

Who won?

I guess PC would have been happier if Hitler had won.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

So saith Joseph Stalin.

So saith everyone at the time. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure to make a deal with the NAZI criminals. A lot of lives were lost and a lot of grief was endured to bring the NAZI's to the point of wanting to surrender. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure so that Hitler and his henchmen could continue with life like the war to that date was just a bump in the road.

"So saith everyone at the time."

That's another lie.

Throughout the thread I've noted experts opposed to same...and if you weren't such a Roosevelt lap dog you'd speak the truth.


Let's slap you in the kisser again:

1. There was FDR close friend, on equally a Sovietophile, William Christian Bullitt, Jr.. Also an extreme Liberal, a radical, he had worked for Woodrow Wilson, and, of course, was a fervent believer in internationalism.
"Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed Bullitt the first US ambassador to the Soviet Union, a post that he filled from 1933 to 1936." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


2. Ambassador Bullitt soon recognized the truth. Every 'pledge,' 'promise,' and 'assurance," that the Soviets had tricked Roosevelt into believing- if 'believing' is the accurate explanation- on war debt, on the treatment of American nationals and property in the USSR, on religious freedom, on subversion in the United States, and, of course, on fomenting revolution in the United States, was worthless.
As dense a Liberal as Bullitt was, he saw Stalin convene the world's Communist parties, including the American Communist Party (CPUSA), in the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International, 1935. CPUSA leaders Earl Browder and William Foster took leading roles. So much for the pledges.
West, "American Betrayal," p. 197.

a. "This not only proved that [the Soviets] still pursued the goal of world revolution, but it also proved that they were breaking their promise in the letters exchanged between Roosevelt and Litvinov in November 1933 which stipulated that Moscow would have nothing to do with the American Communist Party." Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p. 49.

3. Bullitt suggested that Roosevelt would feel obliged to break relations. He was wrong. "If we should not [break relations] the Soviet Government would be convinced that it could break its pledges with impunity and would feel free to direct actively the American communist movement."
"For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt,
p. 130-131.


Future ambassador William H. Standley gave similar advice to FDR.....which he also ignored.



4. "...he later became an outspoken anticommunist..... Though Bullitt arrived in the Soviet Union with high hopes for Soviet-American relations, his view of the Soviet leadership soured on closer inspection. By the end of his tenure he was openly hostile to the Soviet government. He remained an outspoken anticommunist for the rest of his life."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


5. In a letter to FDR, dated January 29, 1943, Ambassador William Bullitt warned Roosevelt about what would happen if he continued pursuing the policies of appeasement toward Stalin that formed the foundation of the American war strategy.

He pleaded with FDR not to 'permit our war to prevent Nazi domination of Europe to be turned into a war to establish Soviet domination of Europe.' He predicted the Soviet annexation of half of Europe; George Kennan identified that letter as the earliest warning of what would be the result of FDR's policies. "
For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 575-590


6. FDR replied:
"Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate, I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I have just had a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything in the world but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace."
William C. Bullitt, "How We Won The War and Lost The Peace," Life Magazine, August 30, 1948, p. 94


Based on what has occurred....does FDR sound like a total moron, or what?

Unlike you, who is simply a liar.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Another PC thread where she bemoans the fact that we sided with the Soviets instead of the Nazis

Political Chic does love those Concentration camps

The fact that I reduce you to lies indicates that everything I post is factual...and you know it.

 

[rightwinger]

Lets look at the FDR record during WWII

Turned the US from the 18th largest military to a Superpower
Formed the allied forces and somehow got the USSR to do most of the fighting and dying for four years while we waited till mid 1944 to form a second front
Greenlighted the atomic bomb
Commander in Chief for wars in two diverse theaters
Liberated Western Europe
Defeated Japan
Left the US as the only economic Superpower after WWII

Greatest President in modern times

 

[Ravi]

1. In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.

Are you saying those Americans that died in WW2 were just an offering to Stalin? Seriously, PC?

 

[Camp]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

So saith Joseph Stalin.

So saith everyone at the time. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure to make a deal with the NAZI criminals. A lot of lives were lost and a lot of grief was endured to bring the NAZI's to the point of wanting to surrender. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure so that Hitler and his henchmen could continue with life like the war to that date was just a bump in the road.

"So saith everyone at the time."

That's another lie.

Throughout the thread I've noted experts opposed to same...and if you weren't such a Roosevelt lap dog you'd speak the truth.


Let's slap you in the kisser again:

1. There was FDR close friend, on equally a Sovietophile, William Christian Bullitt, Jr.. Also an extreme Liberal, a radical, he had worked for Woodrow Wilson, and, of course, was a fervent believer in internationalism.
"Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed Bullitt the first US ambassador to the Soviet Union, a post that he filled from 1933 to 1936." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


2. Ambassador Bullitt soon recognized the truth. Every 'pledge,' 'promise,' and 'assurance," that the Soviets had tricked Roosevelt into believing- if 'believing' is the accurate explanation- on war debt, on the treatment of American nationals and property in the USSR, on religious freedom, on subversion in the United States, and, of course, on fomenting revolution in the United States, was worthless.
As dense a Liberal as Bullitt was, he saw Stalin convene the world's Communist parties, including the American Communist Party (CPUSA), in the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International, 1935. CPUSA leaders Earl Browder and William Foster took leading roles. So much for the pledges.
West, "American Betrayal," p. 197.

a. "This not only proved that [the Soviets] still pursued the goal of world revolution, but it also proved that they were breaking their promise in the letters exchanged between Roosevelt and Litvinov in November 1933 which stipulated that Moscow would have nothing to do with the American Communist Party." Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p. 49.

3. Bullitt suggested that Roosevelt would feel obliged to break relations. He was wrong. "If we should not [break relations] the Soviet Government would be convinced that it could break its pledges with impunity and would feel free to direct actively the American communist movement."
"For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt,
p. 130-131.


Future ambassador William H. Standley gave similar advice to FDR.....which he also ignored.



4. "...he later became an outspoken anticommunist..... Though Bullitt arrived in the Soviet Union with high hopes for Soviet-American relations, his view of the Soviet leadership soured on closer inspection. By the end of his tenure he was openly hostile to the Soviet government. He remained an outspoken anticommunist for the rest of his life."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


5. In a letter to FDR, dated January 29, 1943, Ambassador William Bullitt warned Roosevelt about what would happen if he continued pursuing the policies of appeasement toward Stalin that formed the foundation of the American war strategy.

He pleaded with FDR not to 'permit our war to prevent Nazi domination of Europe to be turned into a war to establish Soviet domination of Europe.' He predicted the Soviet annexation of half of Europe; George Kennan identified that letter as the earliest warning of what would be the result of FDR's policies. "
For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 575-590


6. FDR replied:
"Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate, I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I have just had a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything in the world but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace."
William C. Bullitt, "How We Won The War and Lost The Peace," Life Magazine, August 30, 1948, p. 94


Based on what has occurred....does FDR sound like a total moron, or what?

Unlike you, who is simply a liar.

Well of course, anyone and everyone who does not agree with you is a liar. I exaggerated when I used the word "everyone". I should have said "the vast overwhelming majority" because there were in fact a few people in the entirety of the the world who agreed with your idea for a conditional surrender. When you start counting the NAZI's you can find many who agree with you. To answer your question as to FDR sounding like a moron, or what, I would answer that that "what" was appropriate. "What" being a genius and you being the moron. In addition, FDR had integrity and a moral compass, unlike you, he would not throw away the lives of those who fought for our freedom and make deals with the monsters that tried to take it from us. He decided to squash them like bugs while you would have liked to sit down with them and sip champagne as you made new friends.

 

[rightwinger]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

Can you believe PC wanted to let the Nazis off the hook?
She would have left the death camps in place...some of the "conditions" PC would have accepted is that Germany gets to keep its death camps, Hitler lives, Nazi Germany survives

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. In his tireless and unending efforts to placate, favor, win the approval of homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin, Franklin Roosevelt offered up the lives of 150,000 American soldiers in said endeavor.

Are you saying those Americans that died in WW2 were just an offering to Stalin? Seriously, PC?

So glad you could make it to today's lesson...."Accuracy in History," presented by moi....

Stalin demanded 'unconditional surrender' as a policy rather than simply allowing the Germans to surrender.

The result of acquiescing to said demand.....

To get an idea of the cost of the extended war...."....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died –a startling figure today – between D day[june 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich Stuff I Done Wrote - The Michael A. Charles Online Presence

Get that?

135,000 brave American boys whose lives were offered up as a gift to Stalin....to make certain that communism survived.


Based on the ration of deaths to wounded, that would suggest almostan additional 200,000 wounded, just between Normandy and Germany's surrender.

Totally attributed to 'unconditional surrender.'


I hope you're taking notes.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

Can you believe PC wanted to let the Nazis off the hook?
She would have left the death camps in place...some of the "conditions" PC would have accepted is that Germany gets to keep its death camps, Hitler lives, Nazi Germany survives

None of that is true, of course, and folks reading your posts recognize you as an inveterate liar....beginning with your avi.

In point of fact, one can always tell what the Left....you....are doing by what you accuse others of doing.

Your post is an attempt to excuse the far worse atrocities of your soul mate, Stalin.

 

[Moonglow]

Hitler was never going to surrender...

 

[Ravi]

Hitler was never going to surrender...

That's because FDR paid him not to.

 

[Moonglow]

Hitler was never going to surrender...

That's because FDR paid him not to.

Via Stalin...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Or as the Oxford tome on WWII with historians contributing from many nations say, "any war aim other than unconditional surrender would have been inappropriate."

So saith Joseph Stalin.

So saith everyone at the time. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure to make a deal with the NAZI criminals. A lot of lives were lost and a lot of grief was endured to bring the NAZI's to the point of wanting to surrender. We didn't sacrifice all that blood and treasure so that Hitler and his henchmen could continue with life like the war to that date was just a bump in the road.

"So saith everyone at the time."

That's another lie.

Throughout the thread I've noted experts opposed to same...and if you weren't such a Roosevelt lap dog you'd speak the truth.


Let's slap you in the kisser again:

1. There was FDR close friend, on equally a Sovietophile, William Christian Bullitt, Jr.. Also an extreme Liberal, a radical, he had worked for Woodrow Wilson, and, of course, was a fervent believer in internationalism.
"Franklin D. Roosevelt appointed Bullitt the first US ambassador to the Soviet Union, a post that he filled from 1933 to 1936." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


2. Ambassador Bullitt soon recognized the truth. Every 'pledge,' 'promise,' and 'assurance," that the Soviets had tricked Roosevelt into believing- if 'believing' is the accurate explanation- on war debt, on the treatment of American nationals and property in the USSR, on religious freedom, on subversion in the United States, and, of course, on fomenting revolution in the United States, was worthless.
As dense a Liberal as Bullitt was, he saw Stalin convene the world's Communist parties, including the American Communist Party (CPUSA), in the Seventh World Congress of the Communist International, 1935. CPUSA leaders Earl Browder and William Foster took leading roles. So much for the pledges.
West, "American Betrayal," p. 197.

a. "This not only proved that [the Soviets] still pursued the goal of world revolution, but it also proved that they were breaking their promise in the letters exchanged between Roosevelt and Litvinov in November 1933 which stipulated that Moscow would have nothing to do with the American Communist Party." Dunn, "Caught Between Roosevelt and Stalin," p. 49.

3. Bullitt suggested that Roosevelt would feel obliged to break relations. He was wrong. "If we should not [break relations] the Soviet Government would be convinced that it could break its pledges with impunity and would feel free to direct actively the American communist movement."
"For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt,
p. 130-131.


Future ambassador William H. Standley gave similar advice to FDR.....which he also ignored.



4. "...he later became an outspoken anticommunist..... Though Bullitt arrived in the Soviet Union with high hopes for Soviet-American relations, his view of the Soviet leadership soured on closer inspection. By the end of his tenure he was openly hostile to the Soviet government. He remained an outspoken anticommunist for the rest of his life."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Christian_Bullitt,_Jr.


5. In a letter to FDR, dated January 29, 1943, Ambassador William Bullitt warned Roosevelt about what would happen if he continued pursuing the policies of appeasement toward Stalin that formed the foundation of the American war strategy.

He pleaded with FDR not to 'permit our war to prevent Nazi domination of Europe to be turned into a war to establish Soviet domination of Europe.' He predicted the Soviet annexation of half of Europe; George Kennan identified that letter as the earliest warning of what would be the result of FDR's policies. "
For the President Personal & Secret: Correspondence Between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt," Orville H. Bullitt, p. 575-590


6. FDR replied:
"Bill, I don't dispute your facts, they are accurate, I don't dispute the logic of your reasoning. I have just had a hunch that Stalin is not that kind of a man. Harry says he's not and that he doesn't want anything in the world but security for his country, and I think that if I give him everything I possibly can and ask nothing from him in return, noblesse oblige, he won't try to annex anything and will work with me for a world of democracy and peace."
William C. Bullitt, "How We Won The War and Lost The Peace," Life Magazine, August 30, 1948, p. 94


Based on what has occurred....does FDR sound like a total moron, or what?

Unlike you, who is simply a liar.

Well of course, anyone and everyone who does not agree with you is a liar. I exaggerated when I used the word "everyone". I should have said "the vast overwhelming majority" because there were in fact a few people in the entirety of the the world who agreed with your idea for a conditional surrender. When you start counting the NAZI's you can find many who agree with you. To answer your question as to FDR sounding like a moron, or what, I would answer that that "what" was appropriate. "What" being a genius and you being the moron. In addition, FDR had integrity and a moral compass, unlike you, he would not throw away the lives of those who fought for our freedom and make deals with the monsters that tried to take it from us. He decided to squash them like bugs while you would have liked to sit down with them and sip champagne as you made new friends.

"FDR had integrity and a moral compass,..."

I realize that this is the thrashing of an expired equus....but I do so get the amusement that goes with exposing you as a lying lap dog of FDR's.


Roosevelt embraced the the murderer of millions....and knew exactly what Stalin was guilty of.

Since FDR knew of Stalin's genocides, was Roosevelt a man without a moral compass?
Absolutely!

FDR chose to recognize Stalin's regime in 1933... eight months earlier, journalist Gareth Jones had exposed Stalin's Terror Famine

"In the train a Communist denied to me that there was a famine. I flung a crust of bread which I had been eating from my own supply into a spittoon. A peasant fellow-passenger fished it out and ravenously ate it."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gareth_Jones_(journalist)



Malcolm Muggeridge "was the first writer to reveal the true nature of Stalin's regime when in 1933 he exposed the terror famine in the Ukraine. "

Time and Eternity: The Uncollected Writings of Malcolm Muggeridge: Malcolm Muggeridge, Nicholas Flynn: 9781570759055: Amazon.com: Books



For those who don't know, Stalin starved millions to death to gain control of their property, their farms.

"1932-1933 .... Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished..."The History Place - Genocide in the 20th Century: Stalin's Forced Famine 1932-33


Think Roosevelt knew?
You can't deny it, can you.

 

[Moonglow]

FDR chose to recognize Stalin's regime in 1933... eight months earlier, journalist Gareth Jones had exposed Stalin's Terror Famine


I do loves a good fairy tale....

ECONOMY
The Roots of Stalin in the Tea Party Movement
The Koch family, America's biggest financial backers of the Tea Party, would not be the billionaires they are today were it not for the godless empire of the USSR.

The Tea Party movement's dirty little secret is that its chief financial backers owe their family fortune to the granddaddy of all their hatred: Stalin's godless empire of the USSR. The secretive oil billionaires of the Koch family, the main supporters of the right-wing groups that orchestrated the Tea Party movement, would not have the means to bankroll their favorite causes had it not been for the pile of money the family made working for the Bolsheviks in the late 1920s and early 1930s, building refineries, training Communist engineers and laying down the foundation of Soviet oil infrastructure.
The Roots of Stalin in the Tea Party Movement Alternet

 

[Moonglow]

I guess all Communist tyrant lovers really don't care where there money comes from....