Ronald Reagan - Prophet

[Uncensored2008]

i knew he had alzheimer's, but i didn't realize it was early onset.

sad

Thanks TM, your opinion is always so valuable.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Now you say, "This is why your party is dying!! Lair!!!"

Top 10 differences between del and TruthMatters:

1.


I got nothing.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Really? What movie was that in?...I missed it.

With all the drugs you did, you missed all of the 70's, 80's, and 90's - Rev. Jim.

 

[HUGGY]

I was reading this opinion article:

Ronald Reagan's warning on progressive taxes - Conservative News

And it put me onto this speech by Ronald Reagan, given in 1961 while Reagan was still an actor:

Encroaching Control - Reagan Speeches

It is genuinely fascinating how Mr. Reagan, using only common sense and logic (one presumes, at least, that he was not a prophet in the true sense, and delivering directives straight from the Almighty, although I could be wrong about that), so accurately predicted what came to pass in our country. Leftists today are so busy framing the arguments as though the current state of things has ALWAYS pertained that most people forget that there was once an argument about implementing the programs the left takes for granted now as the basis for the NEW programs they want. And if people don't remember the argument, then they obviously don't remember that the left was WRONG.

That's always the problem with arguing with the left: their attention span is so damned short that by the time they've been proven wrong, they've conveniently forgotten that the debate was even happening.

“Not too long ago, Norman Thomas, six times a candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, commented that ‘the American people would never knowingly vote for socialism but that under the name of liberalism, they would adopt every fragment of the socialist program.’”

“Traditionally, one of the easiest first steps in imposing socialism on a people has been government-paid medicine. It is the easiest to present as a humanitarian project. No one wants to oppose care for the sick.”

Mind you, this was four years before Medicare was implemented. (Yes, I know, you lefties thought Medicare was established with the signing of the Constitution, but it actually wasn't.)

“It is now proposed that all people of Social Security age be given government paid medical and hospital care,” said Reagan. “Once again, emergency is invoked, and we are given a picture of millions of senior citizens desperately needing medical care and unable to finance it. In all the emotional presentation, the backers of this program seem strangely reluctant to face the facts.”

“As near as can be determined,” he said, “less than 10 percent of our senior citizens require aid in meeting their medical needs.”

Reagan pointed out that this 10% of senior citizens was being used to force ALL seniors into a compulsory healthcare program, whether they needed - or wanted - it or not.

“Why? Well, ex-Congressman (Aime) Forand provides the answer. He says, ‘If we can only break through and get our foot in the door, then we can expand the program after that.’”

As we know now, that's exactly what happened. Medicare became the law of the land, with leftists pooh-poohing warnings like Reagan's as "hyperbole". And as we also know, Reagan and the other naysayers were correct, and the leftists were WRONG: senior citizens did NOT get to keep their health insurance if they already had it. And now, here we are with Obamacare, and it's the same damned argument all over again, and the left has blissfully forgotten that they already used this arguments before, were WRONG then, and will be wrong this time.

Reagan applied the same prophesying to Social Security (No, leftists, Social Security has NOT been the natural order of things since Cro-Magnon Man), predicting that the program would grow and grow and become so monstrous that eventually, younger Americans would end up being taxed just to cover its deficits, with no hope of EVER seeing any return on that money themselves. Sound familiar to anyone else?

While he was at it, Reagan took a prophetic swipe at the progressive tax, as well, pointing out that there were already handpicked leftist economists attempting to redefine as "loopholes" legitimate deductions such as property taxes and charitable deductions. In 1961, that redefinition was considered preposterous. Now, in 2012, we have a President poised to make it cold, hard reality.

Someday you will get an ailment that doesn't go away on it's own in a couple of days. Maybe you will lose a job through no fault of your own and being a woman will have much higher health care insurance premiums. You may not be able to keep up the payments.

Maybe these things will not happen to you...but if they do and you are at the mercy of whatever the health care system is at that time I hope you will have had Your OP here printed out so you can reflect on your attitude then as opposed to now.

I'd be curious if you still feel the same.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Did he "foresee" that his SOCIALST health care program would damn near bankrupt the country?

Editing this because, although Reagan worked hard to bankrupt the country, his SOCIALIST health care system really only pushed hospitals, trauma centers, burn care centers into financial ruin. And, of course, forced the rest of us to pay for other people's health care.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I was reading this opinion article:

Ronald Reagan's warning on progressive taxes - Conservative News

And it put me onto this speech by Ronald Reagan, given in 1961 while Reagan was still an actor:

Encroaching Control - Reagan Speeches

It is genuinely fascinating how Mr. Reagan, using only common sense and logic (one presumes, at least, that he was not a prophet in the true sense, and delivering directives straight from the Almighty, although I could be wrong about that), so accurately predicted what came to pass in our country. Leftists today are so busy framing the arguments as though the current state of things has ALWAYS pertained that most people forget that there was once an argument about implementing the programs the left takes for granted now as the basis for the NEW programs they want. And if people don't remember the argument, then they obviously don't remember that the left was WRONG.

That's always the problem with arguing with the left: their attention span is so damned short that by the time they've been proven wrong, they've conveniently forgotten that the debate was even happening.

“Not too long ago, Norman Thomas, six times a candidate for president on the Socialist Party ticket, commented that ‘the American people would never knowingly vote for socialism but that under the name of liberalism, they would adopt every fragment of the socialist program.’”

“Traditionally, one of the easiest first steps in imposing socialism on a people has been government-paid medicine. It is the easiest to present as a humanitarian project. No one wants to oppose care for the sick.”

Mind you, this was four years before Medicare was implemented. (Yes, I know, you lefties thought Medicare was established with the signing of the Constitution, but it actually wasn't.)

“It is now proposed that all people of Social Security age be given government paid medical and hospital care,” said Reagan. “Once again, emergency is invoked, and we are given a picture of millions of senior citizens desperately needing medical care and unable to finance it. In all the emotional presentation, the backers of this program seem strangely reluctant to face the facts.”

“As near as can be determined,” he said, “less than 10 percent of our senior citizens require aid in meeting their medical needs.”

Reagan pointed out that this 10% of senior citizens was being used to force ALL seniors into a compulsory healthcare program, whether they needed - or wanted - it or not.

“Why? Well, ex-Congressman (Aime) Forand provides the answer. He says, ‘If we can only break through and get our foot in the door, then we can expand the program after that.’”

As we know now, that's exactly what happened. Medicare became the law of the land, with leftists pooh-poohing warnings like Reagan's as "hyperbole". And as we also know, Reagan and the other naysayers were correct, and the leftists were WRONG: senior citizens did NOT get to keep their health insurance if they already had it. And now, here we are with Obamacare, and it's the same damned argument all over again, and the left has blissfully forgotten that they already used this arguments before, were WRONG then, and will be wrong this time.

Reagan applied the same prophesying to Social Security (No, leftists, Social Security has NOT been the natural order of things since Cro-Magnon Man), predicting that the program would grow and grow and become so monstrous that eventually, younger Americans would end up being taxed just to cover its deficits, with no hope of EVER seeing any return on that money themselves. Sound familiar to anyone else?

While he was at it, Reagan took a prophetic swipe at the progressive tax, as well, pointing out that there were already handpicked leftist economists attempting to redefine as "loopholes" legitimate deductions such as property taxes and charitable deductions. In 1961, that redefinition was considered preposterous. Now, in 2012, we have a President poised to make it cold, hard reality.

Someday you will get an ailment that doesn't go away on it's own in a couple of days. Maybe you will lose a job through no fault of your own and being a woman will have much higher health care insurance premiums. You may not be able to keep up the payments.

Maybe these things will not happen to you...but if they do and you are at the mercy of whatever the health care system is at that time I hope you will have had Your OP here printed out so you can reflect on your attitude then as opposed to now.

I'd be curious if you still feel the same.

rw's who say they don't want to have to pay for their own health care insurance .. surely they have families. Parents and children who have severe health care circumstances.

Makes one wonder why they are so against equal health care for all Americans.

 

[S.J.]

In 1981, the deficit was $79 billion and, in 1986, at the peak of his deficit spending, it stood at $221 billion. The federal debt was $994 billion when he took office in 1981 and grew to $2.9 trillion when his second term ended in 1989.

Hmm, $2 trillion in 8 years to defeat the Soviet Union. I'd say we got our money's worth. Now consider that Obama increased the debt by that much in his first 2 years and ask yourself what we got for the money. NOTHING!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Now you say, "This is why your party is dying!! Lair!!!"

Top 10 differences between del and TruthMatters:

1.


I got nothing.

I think one of them has an "outtie", and the other has an "innie", but I won't swear to it, and I'm DEFINITELY not checking to find out.

Sorry to take so long to get back to my thread, but I was waiting for the initial furious spate of empty, meaningless leftie hatred-spewing to die down.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

My chart goes back to 1940, before WWII.

FDR, and succeeding presidents paid down the debt accrued by the Great Depression, WWII and any other government spending you want to post a chart for...UNTIL Reagan.

Oh, well big fucking whoop! FDR and succeeding presidents also increased debt during periods of their presidency as well. Furthermore, according to your chart, you're full of shit and FDR didn't pay squat down. He was dead by that time...dipshit. Truman would have been the one paying it down. According to the chart you posted, the debt didn't start going down until 1946...dumbass!

FDR's policies outlived him. Our WWII debt was paid down by responsible Democratic and Republican administrations...UNTIL Reagan.

Reagan pledged during his 1980 campaign for president to balance the federal budget, but never submitted a balanced budget in his eight years in office. In 1981, the deficit was $79 billion and, in 1986, at the peak of his deficit spending, it stood at $221 billion. The federal debt was $994 billion when he took office in 1981 and grew to $2.9 trillion when his second term ended in 1989.

Office of Management and Budget, "Historical Tables: Budget of the United States Government

And during Reagan's entire eight years, the Democrats controlled the House while Republicans controlled the Senate until 1987. Then, Democrats controlled both Houses of Congress until 1989. And, Reagan proposed a balanced budget every year he was in office. It may never had passed but, unlike Obama, he proposed one. And then, there's this:

"The harsh economic medicine of the Federal Reserve Board, backed by Reagan, squeezed inflation out of the American economy and set the nation on the right economic course. During Reagan's second term America prospered. Although the budget deficit continued to grow -- arguably the price tag of ending the Cold War -- the United States experienced the longest sustained peacetime prosperity in its history."

The 1982 Recession . Reagan . WGBH American Experience | PBS

Furthermore, doesn't matter what the federal debt was when he "took office". The federal debt was $1.1 trillion in on September 30, 1982, when his first budget would have went into effect. Whatever debt was present when he "took office" would be owned by the previous administration.

 

[Londoner]

For all their bluster about how they don't trust government, Republicans have a very passionate devotion to a man who doubled the spending and deficits of Carter.

For every dollar Reagan took from social programs, he put ten dollars into defense to pay for things like the Star Wars Missile Defense Shield - which was a complete hoax.

Reagan was the first president to abandon "pay as you go". FDR had more of a commitment to balanced budgets than Reagan by an embarrassing margin. Reagan's deficits are historic. He created a more expensive government than Carter ever dreamed possible. For god's sakes, he radically increased the size of the government work force in order to combat the unemployment Volker caused by raising interest rates. Obama was forced to cut off aid to the states, so they had to shed massive jobs. Reagan kept the piggy bank open for the states, bailing them out so they could maintain their work forces.

Reagan was fucking MASSIVE spender.

And yet he had the audacity to warn us about taxation?

Ronnie, we're still trying to pay off your debts.

How is it that the Republican party is raising a generation of people who don't know history.

The OP is getting history from political speeches. He not only trusts government leaders, he gets his education from them.

God help us.

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Sometimes the words creditor and debtor nations refers not to the money a nation owes, but to the money a nation owes to, or is owed by, foreign nations. In the sense that we own foreign nations more than they owe us, we became a debtor nation under Reagan.

Prove we owe foreign nations more than they owe us. And, prove foreign nations owed foreign nations more than they owed us during Reagan. That's your challenge. The fact is, we likely don't owe any nation as much as some people would likely try to believe we do. Many nations were still in debt to us from WWI, WWII and several other incidents involving military activity as well as other activity.

Furthermore, federal debt isn't exclusively a matter of how much it is the United States owes some other country. There is internal debt and external debt, both of which are part of the federal debt. Go ahead, show us how much it is we owe in external debt, then prove this is more than what they owe us.

 

[S.J.]

For all their bluster about how they don't trust government, Republicans have a very passionate devotion to a man who doubled the spending and deficits of Carter.

For every dollar Reagan took from social programs, he put ten dollars into defense to pay for things like the Star Wars Missile Defense Shield - which was a complete hoax.

Reagan was the first president to abandon "pay as you go". FDR had more of a commitment to balanced budgets than Reagan by an embarrassing margin. Reagan's deficits are historic. He created a more expensive government than Carter ever dreamed possible. For god's sakes, he radically increased the size of the government work force in order to combat the unemployment Volker caused by raising interest rates. Obama was forced to cut off aid to the states, so they had to shed massive jobs. Reagan kept the piggy bank open for the states, bailing them out so they could maintain their work forces.

Reagan was fucking MASSIVE spender.

And yet he had the audacity to warn us about taxation?

Ronnie, we're still trying to pay off your debts.

How is it that the Republican party is raising a generation of people who don't know history.

The OP is getting history from political speeches. He not only trusts government leaders, he gets his education from them.

God help us.

What a fucking idiot! Not only do you not know history, you don't know the PRESENT either.

 

[Cecilie1200]

For all their bluster about how they don't trust government, Republicans have a very passionate devotion to a man who doubled the spending and deficits of Carter.

For every dollar Reagan took from social programs, he put ten dollars into defense to pay for things like the Star Wars Missile Defense Shield - which was a complete hoax.

Reagan was the first president to abandon "pay as you go". FDR had more of a commitment to balanced budgets than Reagan by an embarrassing margin. Reagan's deficits are historic. He created a more expensive government than Carter ever dreamed possible. For god's sakes, he radically increased the size of the government work force in order to combat the unemployment Volker caused by raising interest rates. Obama was forced to cut off aid to the states, so they had to shed massive jobs. Reagan kept the piggy bank open for the states, bailing them out so they could maintain their work forces.

Reagan was fucking MASSIVE spender.

And yet he had the audacity to warn us about taxation?

Ronnie, we're still trying to pay off your debts.

How is it that the Republican party is raising a generation of people who don't know history.

The OP is getting history from political speeches. He not only trusts government leaders, he gets his education from them.

God help us.

Nice try, pissbrain, but no dice.

1) Distrusting government does NOT mean thinking there should be no government at all, or that there are not specific and proper purviews for government, no matter how often you disingenuous liberal hacks want to try to force this "all-or-nothing" canard onto us.

2) National security is one of the federal government's proper areas of interest; social programs are not. Thus, we did indeed not mind at all taking money away from useless welfare giveaways to put into defense spending and win the Cold War, and if you're looking for us to apologize for it because it doesn't meet with the approval of a vacuum-skull like you, I'd like to politely request that you PLEASE hold your breath while you wait for that to happen.

3) The Strategic Defense Initiative, which you leftist twerps insist on misnaming "Star Wars" (like being nicknamed after a cool movie is some sort of INSULT; you guys really suck at insulting, has anyone ever told you that?), was never a hoax, nor even a failure. History Resources

4) The President does not legally control federal spending, and never has. Congress does. Some Presidents have been very successful at getting Congress to rubberstamp their budget plans - or in Obama's case, just spend money like water without ever having a budget at all. Reagan was not one of those Presidents. Every single budget proposal he ever sent to Congress was proudly pronounced DOA by the Democrats.

5) If you ever feel the need to actually address the points in the OP, rather than just ranting on about how much you hate Ronald Reagan, DO let me know, won't you?

 

[Lakhota]

Ronald Reagan - Prophet

Here's a more fitting title: Ronald Reagan - Puppet

 

[regent]

Sometimes the words creditor and debtor nations refers not to the money a nation owes, but to the money a nation owes to, or is owed by, foreign nations. In the sense that we own foreign nations more than they owe us, we became a debtor nation under Reagan.

Prove we owe foreign nations more than they owe us. And, prove foreign nations owed foreign nations more than they owed us during Reagan. That's your challenge. The fact is, we likely don't owe any nation as much as some people would likely try to believe we do. Many nations were still in debt to us from WWI, WWII and several other incidents involving military activity as well as other activity.

Furthermore, federal debt isn't exclusively a matter of how much it is the United States owes some other country. There is internal debt and external debt, both of which are part of the federal debt. Go ahead, show us how much it is we owe in external debt, then prove this is more than what they owe us.

I don't do research for posters no more than a teacher does research for students. I would suggest you do your own; in this day it is the easiest of tasks. In fact, I would suggest you do it before you post. But I'll help you this once google "Reagan debtor nation."

 

[Lakhota]

During Reagan's presidency, the US went from a creditor to debtor nation and marked a take-off for financial inequality.

Reagan Mythology is Leading US Off a Cliff

 

[CrotchetyGeezer]

Sometimes the words creditor and debtor nations refers not to the money a nation owes, but to the money a nation owes to, or is owed by, foreign nations. In the sense that we own foreign nations more than they owe us, we became a debtor nation under Reagan.

Prove we owe foreign nations more than they owe us. And, prove foreign nations owed foreign nations more than they owed us during Reagan. That's your challenge. The fact is, we likely don't owe any nation as much as some people would likely try to believe we do. Many nations were still in debt to us from WWI, WWII and several other incidents involving military activity as well as other activity.

Furthermore, federal debt isn't exclusively a matter of how much it is the United States owes some other country. There is internal debt and external debt, both of which are part of the federal debt. Go ahead, show us how much it is we owe in external debt, then prove this is more than what they owe us.

I don't do research for posters no more than a teacher does research for students.

You don't do research for yourself, is more like it. You make baseless claims, then just simply can't back up your claims.

I would suggest you do your own; in this day it is the easiest of tasks.

I just did do my own and I told you your claims are dubious based on my findings.

In fact, I would suggest you do it before you post. But I'll help you this once google "Reagan debtor nation."

I'm not interested in your liberal bash-Reagan rags. If you're going to make claims like this, "In the sense that we own foreign nations more than they owe us, we became a debtor nation under Reagan"? You need to back them up. And, I'm not asking you to back up your claim the U.S. became a debtor nation under Reagan. I'm asking you to back up your claim "we own(sic) foreign nations more than they owe us". You make the claim, YOU ought to be prepared to back it up "before you post"...skippy.

 

[GuyPinestra]

We went from a creditor nation under Reagan to a debtor one.

You got something to back this up? This nation has been in debt more than it has not been in debt and was in debt under Carter, under Slick and, now under Obama. Give us some more of your stories. There's barely a time this nation has NOT been in debt, fibber.

Before Ronald Reagan, debt wasn't even part of our lexicon.

Where did our debt come from? When did massive debt become part of the American economy?

Ronbo Reagan switched the federal government from what he critically called, a “tax and spend” policy, to a “borrow and spend” policy, where the government continued its heavy spending, but used borrowed money instead of tax revenue to pay the bills. The results were catastrophic. Although it had taken the United States more than 200 years to accumulate the first $1 trillion of national debt, it took only five years under Reagan to add the second one trillion dollars to the debt. By the end of the 12 years of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the national debt had quadrupled to $4 trillion!

And where was all this angst and concern about debt from conservatives when Bush and Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for almost a decade??? When Bush was starting a 3 trillion dollar war of ideology in Iraq, there was not a PEEP from you right wingers, just cheers and 'bring 'em on'... And where was this less government mantra? You right wingers LOVED BIG government and government intervention into people lives... the Patriot Act, trashing habeas corpus, dismissing the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act.

And what was the concern in the Bush administration about debt and deficits? NONE...Bush's solution was to eliminate the voices of concern.

Paul O'Neill was fired from his job as George Bush's Treasury Secretary for disagreeing too many times with the president's policy on tax cuts.

The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress.

But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.

"Cheney, at this moment, showed his hand. He said to O'Neill: 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' … O'Neill was speechless."

"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says O'Neill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."

Fuck, there's a lot of cut and paste in there!!

I was going to chop it up into bite-sized pieces but you're not honest enough to put your plagiarism in quotes.

Let me grab a few lines of your swill and respond...

And where was all this angst and concern about debt from conservatives when Bush and Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress for almost a decade???

The angst and concern you're looking for was demonstrated in the birth of the TEA Party, LONG BEFORE Boiking was a blip on the political radar.

When Bush was starting a 3 trillion dollar war of ideology in Iraq, there was not a PEEP from you right wingers, just cheers and 'bring 'em on'...

Another fucking lie, jackass! Bush had the nearly UNANIMOUS support of Democrats, too! You want me to post the House and Senate votes for you? Or maybe the quotes from all your Democrat icons? Smart people from BOTH sides were against the war in Iraq, unfortunately hardly ANY of them were holding political OFFICE.

IOW, you and I got IGNORED, or at least I did.

And where was this less government mantra? You right wingers LOVED BIG government and government intervention into people lives... the Patriot Act, trashing habeas corpus, dismissing the Geneva Conventions and the US War Crimes Act.

Another crock of shit, because you blame all this shit on Republicans when the support from politicians was UNIVERSAL! You should try being honest for a change, or at least try not to be such an OBVIOUS lying HACK!

 

[del]

^
once fondled glenn beck's *mike*

 

[Lakhota]