CDZ Robert E. Lee is Not Our Heritage

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by midcan5, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    There is a statute in Ohio from the Civil War that is our heritage. You can see it here: 4th amendment rooted in county « Harrison News Herald. America was founded on the belief that all men are created equal, it took a while to achieve that and some may say we still aren't there. Let's not go backward. White nationalists, white supremacists, the alt-right, and neo-Nazis do not represent the heritage that is America. The confederacy sought to destroy our heritage as Americans not support it, that much should be clear. Over six hundred thousand died to maintain America's dream of equality for all.

    "It is a ‘white man’s government,’ is it? Why, the very first blood shed for the assertion of your independence and the establishment of your nationality, upon the field of Lexington, was the blood of a black citizen of Massachusetts. And when they came to the work, after the victory had been achieved, and the independence of the nation acknowledged, of organizing a constitutional government of the United States, in a majority of the States of the Union the black men voted with white men, and the man who denies it is simply ignorant of the history of his own country. . . .

    Your armies bore witness that 175,000 of the black population, made free by the proclamation of liberty, were in the army of the republic. When you consider that the majority of the black population were the slaves of rebels, and within their territory, unable to signify to the United States Government their unwillingness to serve it, the fact that as large a population of the black population as of the free whites rushed to the defense of your flag, speaks well for their patriotism. . . "

    Source: Balkinization, 'John Bingham on Racial Equality' Gerard N. Magliocca

    "Bingham lived two more years and died in Cadiz on March 19, 1900. Bingham was interred in Union Cemetery in Cadiz. In 1901, the citizens of Harrison County, Ohio erected a bronze statue honoring Bingham in Cadiz." | Ohio Civil War Central

    And there is a history and a heritage and it is not one we should be proud of.

    "There is a crucial difference between leaders like Washington and Jefferson, imperfect men who helped create the United States, Ms. Gordon-Reed said, and Confederate generals like Jackson and Lee, whose main historical significance is that they took up arms against it. The comparison, she added, also “misapprehends the moral problem with the Confederacy.”" Historians Question Trump’s Comments on Confederate Monuments

    "“We would not want to whitewash our history by pretending that Jim Crow and disenfranchisement or massive resistance to the civil rights movement never happened,” he said. “That is the part of our history that these monuments testify to.”" [from above]

    States rights my....

    John Bingham and the Story of American Liberty: The Lost Cause Meets the 'Lost Clause' John Bingham and the Story of American Liberty: The Lost Cause Meets the 'Lost Clause' by Michael Kent Curtis :: SSRN

    I Studied the Alt-Right So You Don’t Have To: I Studied the Alt-Right So You Don’t Have To – Form and Resonance – Medium


    "Education is dangerous - every educated person is a future enemy." Hermann Goering

    "Passionate hatred can give meaning and purpose to an empty life. Thus people haunted by the purposelessness of their lives try to find a new content not only by dedicating themselves to a holy cause but also by nursing a fanatical grievance." Eric Hoffer
     
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  2. tinydancer
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    tinydancer Diamond Member

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    General Robert E Lee is a key figure in the history of America. Of that there is no doubt. Of that there is no argument. There was no choice for him but to fight first for his state and then for the Confederacy.

    One cannot judge that period in time by the minutes and hours of today's world. One must judge a man's soul and character by the period of time he was living in.

    Lee was a man of honor. And as such, when he was commissioned by the Governor of the state to be Commander of the army and the navy of Virginia he accepted the position. This was in April of 1861.

    Civil war broke out in May. The troops were transferred to the Confederacy and he was appointed to full General status.

    Now if one has a decent bone in their body to recognize the conditions at this time that General Lee was living under one would realize General Lee couldn't say...

    "I QUIT".

    General Lee was an honorable man fighting on the wrong side of history. But if one is to recognize truth, one has to recognize if the South had won, General Lee would have fought on the right side of history.
     
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  3. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    The South winning would not have made people across the globe feel the south was right. It may have alligned us with the NAZI's, 80 years later, remeber the debates of the time, what a monster Stalin was and our hatred of Communism.

    Robert E Lee was a great strategist, and a leader of men. The political issues of the day overwhelmed him and he made a terribly poor choice or he was evil. This lead to hundreds of thousands of additional American deaths and could have won the morally corrupt dark side (the south) the war.
     
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  4. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    To continue, Lee woke up over a thousand days and could have changed his mind. As "cool" as his persona has been passed down, I at best consider him similarly to Rommel.

    Tell me Lee realized it wss 1860 and helped lead a coup or organized men against slavery and I may reconsider. (Maybe lee has a diary I have not read? Maybe he snuck funds to the underground railroad?) Until the I spit on his grave as well as the stars and bars of slavery.
     
  5. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    Your lack of information from both sides of this historical debate is quite telling.

    It is always good to have a certain kind of person spitting on ones cause as it is a form of affirmation that one is correct.
     
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  6. IsaacNewton
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    IsaacNewton Gold Member

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    Robert E Lee himself said he wanted no notice for himself after the war. He said it's time to accept the outcome and to the South he said "Raise up your children as Americans". HE understood it was over and time to move on. He wanted no statues of him and would be appalled that all this violence is because of statues erected by people of him that he would have rejected.

    Most of these people in the South that claim 'heritage' don't know the history of the civil war.
     
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  7. Votto
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    Votto Gold Member

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    Do you wish to remove the Jefferson Memorial? He had slaves?
     
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  8. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    This is proof positive that you dont know what you are talking about.

    Some of these lads can tell you all sorts of technical details about the artillery, the small arms, style of bayonettes and swordsmanship.

    They can quote you by heart the most persuasive texts they know of those that support their opinion on the Civil War.

    And you spit this nonsense out? Yes, we know how knows the facts and who merely regurgitates public school agitprop.
     
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  9. MarkDuffy
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    MarkDuffy Diamond Member

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    The Myth of the Kindly General Lee
    The legend of the Confederate leader’s heroism and decency is based in the fiction of a person who never existed.

    The Myth of the Kindly General Lee
     
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  10. Votto
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    Votto Gold Member

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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017

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