Religion, how I hate thee

[Avatar4321]

I disagree with you. More to the point I marvel how anyone intelligent can not be interested in religion. What great mind exists that doesnt want to understand everything they can?

I disagree with you. More to the point I marvel how anyone intelligent can not be interested in science. What great mind exists that doesnt want to understand everything they can?

Religion is a cop-out for those with no desire to truly understand.

How would you know if you dont bother triyng to understand?

 

[Avatar4321]

The solution to all the world's problems?

Kill fucking everyone.

I'd beg to differ ... I'd say that 'use your brain' has a much bigger potential.

The problem with that idea is that most people aren't properly equipped to do such a thing.

Case in point.

 

[antagon]

Religion and science sometimes are the same thing.

Fail.

That's like saying 2=5

god and science are sometimes the same thing.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I hear what you are saying, guys. Well, especially when it comes to 'logic'.

However, I think that most of you missed the main point of my rant and that is: How can you (for example) be proud and even proselytize being Jewish when one or all of your holy books are full to the brim with vile perversions such as fucking an infant, fucking one's daughters, killing one's son (for the faith in god?), etcetera.

Another question you should ask yourself then is how can you stand to be human? Our entire history is filled with war and violence, and nowadays, seems like criminals are getting more and more brutal. You don't advocate the bad, you show how after bad things happened, they redeemed themselves (because most did).

I don't despise the belief in 'something larger than ourselves' or some sort of an 'equation that orders all life'. I myself don't think that what we see is the only thing there is. I myself have what is called 'intuition' and I read people so well it's impossible to explain logically. I for example believe in existence of ghosts that some of my friends consider to be totally stupid.

You 'intuition' is something much more.......it's the electrical impulses in your body that runs your nervous system. Yours just happens to be finer tuned than most. Martial artists call it 'chi'.

HOWEVER, what I do not understand and what grosses me out is a person's adherence to that one religion such as Islam that they are willing to put everyone else down because of the misguided and totally WRONG notion that they are made somehow better by that certain religion! I would NEVER, EVER flaunt something as unclearly good/wrong, normal/perverse as religion is. I would NEVER subscribe to something that allows three-year-olds to be fucked by a grown man ... or something that praises a clear PEDOFILE. Yes, I am especially bewildered by what is happening to innocent children in these books.

I don't understand the ideals behind Islam either. Most of the religion advocates lying and violence, at least, as the current group of those in charge of it seem to be demonstrating.

This is basically what I'm talking about .. not about 'mystic sense' or whatever Kalam called it or a belief in 'something' itself. It's the specific religions and their literature that makes me want to throw up and it also makes me believe one has to be brainwashed to be able to accept 'the good' (like the beautitudes) together with the 'perverse' like what I already mentioned too many times.

Do you have to be 'perverse' to enjoy living on this planet? Same deal, there is good and there is bad.

Do I make myself clearer? Does that make better sense?

Other than that, I do believe that religious literature has its place on our bookshelves and is to be taken into account when studying a culture or its history, but calling oneself 'christian' is to me like saying: all the evil that has been done in the name of this 'faith' is ok with me. You can still believe in parts of christianity that is clearly good and helpful, but why take the ENTIRE religion on by taking the religion's name on yourself?

I'm just advocating that people actually learn their religions and realize how weird it looks when you call a pedophile 'a perfect man' or call yourself 'the chosen people,' which automatically makes you fucked up in my mind (and minds of most).

Know why Christians are so screwed up? Because of the Niecine council and the editing of the KJV Bible. They took out quite a bit of the Old Testament with editing so that it would be slanted towards the Gospels (Yeshua).

The New Testament is then written in such a way as to culminate with Revelation, which then points back to Yeshua.

It's just a simple marketing thing that the pagans of Rome did when they took over Christianity.

 

[antagon]

Do I make myself clearer? Does that make better sense?

you're down with the idea of faith and worship, mysticism, etc. add tradition and cultural identity and you have the complete picture. some folks do emphasize the efforts of religion to explain the natural world, but science has clearly displaced much of that for the intelligent people you're baffled about.

like any cultural group, religions cast the shadow of their followers, so while i wouldnt agree that religion is a net loss for the world, the extent that it is negative (or positive) is just this shadow. same for government and nations, movements and communities.

 

[AllieBaba]

Science doesn't displace religion at all.

 

[antagon]

but allie, in my life, the creation story i learned when i was 4 years old was replaced with the biology i learned when i was 14. the story still remains in memory, but for many, the scientific explanations available displace those they'd acquire from religious texts. that's my life, and 10 years. in the last 200 years this trend has marginalized the role of religious texts and figures with respect to explaining natural phenomena.

note: i do qualify the affected by 'intelligent'.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'd beg to differ ... I'd say that 'use your brain' has a much bigger potential.

The problem with that idea is that most people aren't properly equipped to do such a thing.

Case in point.

Thank you for volunteering to serve as an example for today's lesson.


Class, give Avatar a round of applause for volunteering to help.
​

 

[AllieBaba]

but allie, in my life, the creation story i learned when i was 4 years old was replaced with the biology i learned when i was 14. the story still remains in memory, but for many, the scientific explanations available displace those they'd acquire from religious texts. that's my life, and 10 years. in the last 200 years this trend has marginalized the role of religious texts and figures with respect to explaining natural phenomena.

note: i do qualify the affected by 'intelligent'.

Just as 4 year olds aren't taught the same things that high schoolers are in public schools, likewise 4 year olds in Sunday school aren't taught the same things that adults are taught in church.

I invite you to research the bible as an adult, with an open mind, before presuming science and the bible are at odds.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I invite you to research the bible as an adult, with an open mind, before presuming science and the bible are at odds.

Plants before the sun existed....

 

[antagon]

but allie...my religion makes no claims that scientific accounts for, say, evolution, are inaccurate. my whole argument is that there's no necessity for conflict between science and religion. nevertheless, fundamental sects of religions established during a time when religion was the dominant source of 'science', tend to differ, and are vehemently juxt'd against science.

similarly, atheists try to wield science against religion, but seem to only account for this role of faith, excluding ritual, culture spirituality and community.

 

[AllieBaba]

but allie...my religion makes no claims that scientific accounts for, say, evolution, are inaccurate. my whole argument is that there's no necessity for conflict between science and religion. nevertheless, fundamental sects of religions established during a time when religion was the dominant source of 'science', tend to differ, and are vehemently juxt'd against science.

similarly, atheists try to wield science against religion, but seem to only account for this role of faith, excluding ritual, culture spirituality and community.

I agree with you.

Are we arguing?

 

[tigerbob]

This is just a rant.

Yes, before I wrote this, I did get pissed off.

Yes, this is stream-of-consciousness sort of thing.

__________________

I will never understand how can so many intelligent, sensible human beings spend energy and time on such an idiotic thing as religion.

All religions are fucked-up, wrong and have caused more evil than good. All of them. There is some sick-ass shit in all the holy books of the world that you all revere so much. In Talmud, it is spelled out, that one can 'acquire a three-year-old maiden in marriage through coition,' Mohammed was himself a pedophile, and we all know what evil crap is in the bible ... the worst of it in the Old Testament. And what about the caste system in Indian societies that was directly created from Hinduism?

Why would anyone be proud of belonging to any of these vile 'philosophies'? To these 'sets of beliefs' that include such disgusting shit as the examples I mentioned? Why would anyone be proud of being Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu? If you are religious, answer me then, what does 'your religion' have to do with you personally? How can you be proud of something you personally have NOTHING to do with? You did not create it, you probably do not even believe most of it (I doubt most Jews even know of the above-mentioned Talmud passage, for example) ... then how can you really 'belong to it', 'subscribe to it' or even 'be proud of it'?

I'm searching for LOGIC here!

It's bewildering and boggles my mind that so many extremely intelligent people that have so many talents and such a great capacity for learning would squander it on such an IDIOTIC thing as religion is.

I'm disgusted by the fact.

I'm looking forward to all the 'fire and brimstone' from all you innocent pious (uber) people.

If you want to insult my beliefs that's fine, it's a free country, but why claim you're looking for logic, trying to understand?

BTW, it's not the religions that are harmful, it's the things people do in the name of religion that are harmful. It's sort of like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.

 

[Gadawg73]

Funny how scientists that back up religous beliefs are held up as proof and noted as Christians and any scientist that states global warming is happening and evolution is fact is labeled as an atheist.
Religion and science never mix. My religous beliefs are so strong they never conflict with science.
However, my religous beliefs are never science and no religous beliefs such as ID or creationism should ever be allowed in science class. Those with a lack of faith and confidence in their religous beliefs are scared of facts such as evolution and other science. Why else would sane folks claim man walked with dinosaurs?

 

[ABikerSailor]

Science doesn't displace religion at all.

No, and theology doesn't replace science either.

Einstein said it best. "Theology without science is crippled, and science without theology is blind".

Ya gotta have both, and you can not disregard either one, no matter what your beliefs.

Scientists cannot deny the existence of God. Why? Because then the science would have no conscience, and you could end up with some really nasty stuff.

The atomic bomb is danger close to being science without theology.

Theologians cannot deny the existence displayed by science. Why? Because then they would ignore and attack it, and be suspicious of everything that science brings.

By the way........did you know that in the way the Hebrew language is, back in Biblical times, they would have understood the word computer? They just wouldn't know what it would be for.

Besides...........don't you good Christians like your satellite television, cell phones, nice cars and central air, as well as all the medical advances?

Thank science.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

but allie...my religion makes no claims that scientific accounts for, say, evolution, are inaccurate. my whole argument is that there's no necessity for conflict between science and religion. nevertheless, fundamental sects of religions established during a time when religion was the dominant source of 'science', tend to differ, and are vehemently juxt'd against science.

similarly, atheists try to wield science against religion, but seem to only account for this role of faith, excluding ritual, culture spirituality and community.

Atheism relies upon nothing BUT faith...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

science doesn't displace religion at all.

no, and theology doesn't replace science either.

period...

 

[Kalam]

HOWEVER, what I do not understand and what grosses me out is a person's adherence to that one religion such as Islam that they are willing to put everyone else down because of the misguided and totally WRONG notion that they are made somehow better by that certain religion! I would NEVER, EVER flaunt something as unclearly good/wrong, normal/perverse as religion is. I would NEVER subscribe to something that allows three-year-olds to be fucked by a grown man ... or something that praises a clear PEDOFILE. Yes, I am especially bewildered by what is happening to innocent children in these books.

'Aishah (RA), even if we were to assume that she was nine when she began living with the Messenger (SAWS) and his family in Madinah, was extremely fortunate that she married someone who didn't allow her intellect to go to waste. Modern non-Muslims denounce this marriage frequently, but can they point to anything negative that came of it? It was a happy marriage and one that ultimately resulted in 'Aishah's own political and religious leadership and her transmission of an enormous amount of information that would form the basis of Islamic law.

 

[antagon]

but allie...my religion makes no claims that scientific accounts for, say, evolution, are inaccurate. my whole argument is that there's no necessity for conflict between science and religion. nevertheless, fundamental sects of religions established during a time when religion was the dominant source of 'science', tend to differ, and are vehemently juxt'd against science.

similarly, atheists try to wield science against religion, but seem to only account for this role of faith, excluding ritual, culture spirituality and community.

I agree with you.

Are we arguing?

aww. no fun.

 

[Neser Boha]

This is just a rant.

Yes, before I wrote this, I did get pissed off.

Yes, this is stream-of-consciousness sort of thing.

__________________

I will never understand how can so many intelligent, sensible human beings spend energy and time on such an idiotic thing as religion.

All religions are fucked-up, wrong and have caused more evil than good. All of them. There is some sick-ass shit in all the holy books of the world that you all revere so much. In Talmud, it is spelled out, that one can 'acquire a three-year-old maiden in marriage through coition,' Mohammed was himself a pedophile, and we all know what evil crap is in the bible ... the worst of it in the Old Testament. And what about the caste system in Indian societies that was directly created from Hinduism?

Why would anyone be proud of belonging to any of these vile 'philosophies'? To these 'sets of beliefs' that include such disgusting shit as the examples I mentioned? Why would anyone be proud of being Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Hindu? If you are religious, answer me then, what does 'your religion' have to do with you personally? How can you be proud of something you personally have NOTHING to do with? You did not create it, you probably do not even believe most of it (I doubt most Jews even know of the above-mentioned Talmud passage, for example) ... then how can you really 'belong to it', 'subscribe to it' or even 'be proud of it'?

I'm searching for LOGIC here!

It's bewildering and boggles my mind that so many extremely intelligent people that have so many talents and such a great capacity for learning would squander it on such an IDIOTIC thing as religion is.

I'm disgusted by the fact.

I'm looking forward to all the 'fire and brimstone' from all you innocent pious (uber) people.

If you want to insult my beliefs that's fine, it's a free country, but why claim you're looking for logic, trying to understand?

BTW, it's not the religions that are harmful, it's the things people do in the name of religion that are harmful. It's sort of like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.

Insult your beliefs? Beliefs can't be insulted ... that's illogical. I can insult YOU and you only. And no, I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm venting. I think I made that clear.

... "guns don't kill people, people kill people, but guns help"

The fact is that I think it's actually ok for an intelligent person to follow a religion, as long as that same person ACKNOWLEDGES that some parts of the religion's sacred texts, history, etc. is supremely FUCKED UP and is very open about disagreeing with those parts and is OPEN to criticism of the religion itself (unless, of course, one IS a-ok with fucking three-year-olds or killing infidels*, in which case he/she is a sick bastard dangerous to society.). In short, I can't tolerate BLIND FAITH.

I just despise the simple-minded: "I is a xtian and proud aaaav it and I dount care whatcha say!" Which is the attitude many religious people adopt that is actually offensive ... I get offended by idiocy and intellectual sloth - people that refuse to THINK for themselves and are willing to let others stuff bunch of shit down their throats instead of using that shriveling mass inside their skulls.

Everything, even faith, needs to be approached with - if not logic - at least intelligence and sensibility, it can't be just blindly swallowed. I can actually see it as 'the opium of the masses' - yes, the masses of idiots that are unwilling to take a CRITICAL look at what they actually believe or the TEXTS they REVERE - or the "prophets" they call 'PERFECT'.

*exaggeration for purposes of illustration, I'm not actually sure if any religion sanctions killing infidels.