rarely say this (Hatch/Brown Feud in Senate)

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods? Oh yeah..the rich....who out-source American Jobs....and reap the profits. The poor have to buy crap..and that is all in the corporate plan.

Now, HERE is a piece of incredibly faulty logic .... and he doesn't even realize what he's saying.

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Oh good lord, who owns the corporations? HELLO...geeze just never mind

Rich people..for the most part. Hedge funds, shareholders. But you know this. this is why I seldom let myself get involved in these little affairs...I'll throw out a cogent couple of hundred words..and you'll toss out a throwaway line..that doesn't address what i said at all.

If the gist of your cryptic sentence is Democrats, or Republicans for that matter.--nah..Money and power Trump politics. At the top..regardless of R or D--these people are all the same. hey go to the same schools..they speak the same language.

I'll also put out there..that while trillions are invested in Middle Class funds..the middle class..does not vote their shares..managers do..and they do not always have the best interests of their clients in mind. History shows that, eh?

Ownership and control..two very different things. the Middle Class may be said to 'Own' a large portion of corporate America..but they control..very little.

 

[Spare_change]

Who buys all the crap made in China, yeah the poor and middle class. Who buys the higher quality goods made in the USA...yeah the wealthy.

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods? Oh yeah..the rich....who out-source American Jobs....and reap the profits. The poor have to buy crap..and that is all in the corporate plan.

Now, HERE is a piece of incredibly faulty logic .... and he doesn't even realize what he's saying.

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods? Oh yeah..the rich....who out-source American Jobs....and reap the profits. The poor have to buy crap..and that is all in the corporate plan.

Now, HERE is a piece of incredibly faulty logic .... and he doesn't even realize what he's saying.

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

Well dang..the voice of reason..who'd have thunk? Yes, I agree..I simplified it..because I get caught in these things..by people that just want me to work..and then they run away. I disagree with your take on the American worker..but that is more a a philosophic thing..I think the worker should get more..and the shareholder less. But, yeah..it is the law..that has forced publicly-held corps out of the country. Now..privately held companies..do have more options on that front. Employee owned..more still.

I'm in favor of a shift away from Public to Private ownership. I think that it provides stability, in the long run. Employee owned is even better..a downturn..just vote to adjust wages..and no layoffs !Best thing about our country is that we have these options.

But I do believe..that one day..outsourcing is going to turn out to be perhaps the single worst decision our country ever made--I'd sure like to be wrong.,

 

[Spare_change]

Now, HERE is a piece of incredibly faulty logic .... and he doesn't even realize what he's saying.

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Oh good lord, who owns the corporations? HELLO...geeze just never mind

Rich people..for the most part. Hedge funds, shareholders. But you know this. this is why I seldom let myself get involved in these little affairs...I'll throw out a cogent couple of hundred words..and you'll toss out a throwaway line..that doesn't address what i said at all.

If the gist of your cryptic sentence is Democrats, or Republicans for that matter.--nah..Money and power Trump politics. At the top..regardless of R or D--these people are all the same. hey go to the same schools..they speak the same language.

I'll also put out there..that while trillions are invested in Middle Class funds..the middle class..does not vote their shares..managers do..and they do not always have the best interests of their clients in mind. History shows that, eh?

Ownership and control..two very different things. the Middle Class may be said to 'Own' a large portion of corporate America..but they control..very little.

Tell the truth - they choose NOT to control. Each shareholder has a vote - he can exercise that vote at any time. Most don't bother - they proxy it right back to the company. And, then, they want to bitch because they didn't have a say? Please.

It is, however, incredibly naive to put Republicans and Democrats into the same category. One is decidedly pro-business (enhancing your investments), while the other is willing to sacrifice your future for supposed social justice. They couldn't be more different (you'll notice, of course, that Democrats have no problem investing, but they don't want you to).

 

[Spare_change]

Now, HERE is a piece of incredibly faulty logic .... and he doesn't even realize what he's saying.

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

Well dang..the voice of reason..who'd have thunk? Yews, I agree..I simplified it..because i get caught in these things..by peoepl that jsutwant me to work..and then they run

BUT - I hope you can see how you've contributed to the problem.

Most middle class still work for their money, they don't have their money work for them. They trade a sound investment for a new TV or a new car.

When you simplify - and misrepresent - the issue, they listen. You've said it is all the fault of the rich - but, now you admit it isn't. You said wages was the reason for outsourcing - now, you admit it isn't. You make people think somebody is taking advantage of them when, in fact, it is their own failure to make themselves more marketable.

It isn't our responsibility to make it simple so everybody can understand it - rather, it is our responsibility to help them understand the complexity of it. They need to be educated so they can make smart decisions - and you're doing them a disservice by not giving them the whole toolset to do it.

You're looking for a boogeyman --- when none exists. Everybody is in it for themselves - and if you can't play the game, you're going to get hurt by it.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Oh good lord, who owns the corporations? HELLO...geeze just never mind

Rich people..for the most part. Hedge funds, shareholders. But you know this. this is why I seldom let myself get involved in these little affairs...I'll throw out a cogent couple of hundred words..and you'll toss out a throwaway line..that doesn't address what i said at all.

If the gist of your cryptic sentence is Democrats, or Republicans for that matter.--nah..Money and power Trump politics. At the top..regardless of R or D--these people are all the same. hey go to the same schools..they speak the same language.

I'll also put out there..that while trillions are invested in Middle Class funds..the middle class..does not vote their shares..managers do..and they do not always have the best interests of their clients in mind. History shows that, eh?

Ownership and control..two very different things. the Middle Class may be said to 'Own' a large portion of corporate America..but they control..very little.

Tell the truth - they choose NOT to control. Each shareholder has a vote - he can exercise that vote at any time. Most don't bother - they proxy it right back to the company. And, then, they want to bitch because they didn't have a say? Please.

It is, however, incredibly naive to put Republicans and Democrats into the same category. One is decidedly pro-business (enhancing your investments), while the other is willing to sacrifice your future for supposed social justice. They couldn't be more different (you'll notice, of course, that Democrats have no problem investing, but they don't want you to).

Sure...an employee gets a paper to sign..amid all the other papers, at hiring..and he/she signs it. Understandable, if regrettable. I doubt that any one individuals share is great enough to force any accountability..but hey..they might get an invite to the annual meeting!

I think you over-generalize...but maybe there is no better way to approach such a large thing. While some Leftist Billionaires want to play social engineer...most just want to pile up the money...even those..like Gates..or Allen--who throw their money at issues..do so non-politically, for the most part.

I've know more than my share of financial big dogs..including the current one in the White House. No big..I think half of America has shook that hand. 90% of those I met were, under the surface..apolitical..they worshiped Mammon..and voted Republican..for the most part.

Hell..I've paid more attention to politics in the past two years..than i did the previous 60!

 

[basquebromance]

this is called "acting to get votes"

Shouting match erupts in Senate over GOP tax plan

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Do..enlighten me..or are you like so many here...throw some shit..and run. Usually, the next step is for you to save face by telling my how I'm not worth your oh so precious time..and slither out. surprise me.

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

Well dang..the voice of reason..who'd have thunk? Yews, I agree..I simplified it..because i get caught in these things..by peoepl that jsutwant me to work..and then they run

BUT - I hope you can see how you've contributed to the problem.

Most middle class still work for their money, they don't have their money work for them. They trade a sound investment for a new TV or a new car.

When you simplify - and misrepresent - the issue, they listen. You've said it is all the fault of the rich - but, now you admit it isn't. You said wages was the reason for outsourcing - now, you admit it isn't. You make people think somebody is taking advantage of them when, in fact, it is their own failure to make themselves more marketable.

It isn't our responsibility to make it simple so everybody can understand it - rather, it is our responsibility to help them understand the complexity of it. They need to be educated so they can make smart decisions - and you're doing them a disservice by not giving them the whole toolset to do it.

You're looking for a boogeyman --- when none exists. Everybody is in it for themselves - and if you can't play the game, you're going to get hurt by it.

Errrk. Slow down...I said I simplified it..but wages ARE a big reason to outsource. Outsourcing is, to some extent, the fault of the rich..in that..they could agitate to change the system..or, at least explain it, but since at this point, the system is on their side, why would they? As for the Middle Class? That TV or car...is value for value..that investment..may not be.

One toss-off remark deserves another....and saying that the Democrats are why poor folk have to go to Walmart and buy crap..is just as simple..and, I think..just as dangerous. Perhaps we both need to watch our knee-jerks...and be a bit more explanatory. It is hard to do..on a site such as this.

I guess...to the bulk of America..the system IS the Boogeyman!

 

[Spare_change]

Your post makes clear you don't know what the hell you are talking about so what would be the point in discussing it with you? You bitch about corporations outsourcing ignoring that its the middle class who has trillions of dollars invested in the same corporations.

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

Well dang..the voice of reason..who'd have thunk? Yews, I agree..I simplified it..because i get caught in these things..by peoepl that jsutwant me to work..and then they run

BUT - I hope you can see how you've contributed to the problem.

Most middle class still work for their money, they don't have their money work for them. They trade a sound investment for a new TV or a new car.

When you simplify - and misrepresent - the issue, they listen. You've said it is all the fault of the rich - but, now you admit it isn't. You said wages was the reason for outsourcing - now, you admit it isn't. You make people think somebody is taking advantage of them when, in fact, it is their own failure to make themselves more marketable.

It isn't our responsibility to make it simple so everybody can understand it - rather, it is our responsibility to help them understand the complexity of it. They need to be educated so they can make smart decisions - and you're doing them a disservice by not giving them the whole toolset to do it.

You're looking for a boogeyman --- when none exists. Everybody is in it for themselves - and if you can't play the game, you're going to get hurt by it.

Errrk. Slow down...I said I simplified it..but wages ARE a big reason to outsource. outsourcing is, to some extent, the fault of the rich..in that..they could agitate to change the system..but since at this point, the system is on their side, why would they? As for the Middle Class? That TV or car...is value for value..that investment..may not be.

One toss-off remark deserves another....and saying that the Democrats are why poor folk have to go to Walmart and buy crap..is just as simple..and, I think..just as dangerous. Perhaps we both need to watch our knee-jerks...and be a bit more explanatory. It is hard to do..on a site such as this.

I guess...to the bulk of America..the system IS the Boogeyman!

OH?

I don't understand how outsourcing could be the FAULT of the rich. Their shares carry no more votes than yours. Just like you, they hold corporate executives responsible to produce maximum return. You're blaming them - but have no logical rationale about why.

Believe me - the comment about Democrats wasn't a toss-off ... I meant every word of it, and can justify it, as well. Without going into great detail - though, I can, if you like - we know that the primary problem facing the poor population today is the dissolution of the family unit. We also know that social programs, primarily instituted by Democrats, contribute to the social and financial decay. Compound that with the give-away programs of the left, and we have a major segment of our society dependent on government largesse, rather than bonding together to face the travails of life. The government has replaced the husband as the breadwinner. The government has replaced the wife as a source of succor and support. The government has taken on child-rearing responsibilities. Government rules have replaced morality and accountability.

It is NOT an accident that more African American babies were aborted last year than were born. It's not an accident that 77% of poor children are born to a single-parent household. Democrat "social justice" programs have replaced drive and self-determination. Bad schools ensure people can't advance. Schools do not prepare people for the workforce.

The list goes on and on ---- Democrat (liberal) programs have created a permanent underclass of poor and dependent.

 

[rightwinger]

So far we hear a lot of far left religious dogma about the rich.

Yet under Obama the rich got richer and more people became poorer.

Also the far left passed Obamacare the biggest tax ever on the middle class.

So we all know that the far left is just reaching with their debunked religious dogma of lies!

All the left know how to do is bitch. If they knew how to improve things they would have done so. They failed for eight miserable years so now they bitch.

Well it is lot more than that, just look at the far left policies in Baltimore and Chicago. They have failed in those cities, but the people in those cities still vote far left.

Last count I heard was 602 murdered in Chicago to date. Great job Emanuel. Great job.

How many are supposed to be murdered in a city the size of Chicago?

How big is nyc? La?

How about St Louis, Detroit and New Orleans which have larger murder rates

Chicago has a gang problem. What are Republicans proposing to do about it?

 

[rightwinger]

Who buys all the crap made in China, yeah the poor and middle class. Who buys the higher quality goods made in the USA...yeah the wealthy.

Who is making a profit off those imports?

the wealthy

 

[WillowTree]

All the left know how to do is bitch. If they knew how to improve things they would have done so. They failed for eight miserable years so now they bitch.

Well it is lot more than that, just look at the far left policies in Baltimore and Chicago. They have failed in those cities, but the people in those cities still vote far left.

Last count I heard was 602 murdered in Chicago to date. Great job Emanuel. Great job.

How many are supposed to be murdered in a city the size of Chicago?

How big is nyc? La?

How about St Louis, Detroit and New Orleans which have larger murder rates

Chicago has a gang problem. What are Republicans proposing to do about it?

We’re sending Obama in.

 

[Spare_change]

All the left know how to do is bitch. If they knew how to improve things they would have done so. They failed for eight miserable years so now they bitch.

Well it is lot more than that, just look at the far left policies in Baltimore and Chicago. They have failed in those cities, but the people in those cities still vote far left.

Last count I heard was 602 murdered in Chicago to date. Great job Emanuel. Great job.

How many are supposed to be murdered in a city the size of Chicago?

How big is nyc? La?

How about St Louis, Detroit and New Orleans which have larger murder rates

Chicago has a gang problem. What are Republicans proposing to do about it?

Repeal more gun laws.
Provide firearms training, so they can hit what they shoot at.

 

[Spare_change]

Who buys all the crap made in China, yeah the poor and middle class. Who buys the higher quality goods made in the USA...yeah the wealthy.

Who is making a profit off those imports?

the wealthy

You.

 

[rightwinger]

Who buys all the crap made in China, yeah the poor and middle class. Who buys the higher quality goods made in the USA...yeah the wealthy.

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods?

Democrats, any other questions?

God..of all the shit on this site...What I hate the worst are those dip-shits who will take a tiny piece of your post..and respond to it...it's intellectually dishonest. I guess I should expect no less.

No..assmuncher....it is not a Party thing.....it is a rich people thing. Outsourcing is non-partisan...and it leads to higher prices for American-made goods. Also, fewer Americans can make the higher wages..so they have to buy the out-sourced crap foisted on them because of corporate strategy.

In other words, I pointed out that its the Democratic party that taxes and fees the crap out of the poor and middle class FACT and you are butthurt.

It is Republicans who cut funding for housing, healthcare, education, transportation

Just so they can fund tax cute for the wealthy

 

[BluesLegend]

Who buys all the crap made in China, yeah the poor and middle class. Who buys the higher quality goods made in the USA...yeah the wealthy.

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods?

Democrats, any other questions?

God..of all the shit on this site...What I hate the worst are those dip-shits who will take a tiny piece of your post..and respond to it...it's intellectually dishonest. I guess I should expect no less.

No..assmuncher....it is not a Party thing.....it is a rich people thing. Outsourcing is non-partisan...and it leads to higher prices for American-made goods. Also, fewer Americans can make the higher wages..so they have to buy the out-sourced crap foisted on them because of corporate strategy.

In other words, I pointed out that its the Democratic party that taxes and fees the crap out of the poor and middle class FACT and you are butthurt.

It is Republicans who cut funding for housing, healthcare, education, transportation

Just so they can fund tax cute for the wealthy

You lie.

 

[rightwinger]

Well it is lot more than that, just look at the far left policies in Baltimore and Chicago. They have failed in those cities, but the people in those cities still vote far left.

Last count I heard was 602 murdered in Chicago to date. Great job Emanuel. Great job.

How many are supposed to be murdered in a city the size of Chicago?

How big is nyc? La?

How about St Louis, Detroit and New Orleans which have larger murder rates

Chicago has a gang problem. What are Republicans proposing to do about it?

We’re sending Obama in.

The Great Obama could probably help

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

What middle class? Sure..in the form of Retirement and Pension plans..true that. But the impetus to outsource has always been wages. The assets tied up in the Retirement and Pension funds are unavailable..in the short term..to the middle class..and a strong downturn..could make it so that they are never realized. Those plans are at risk and are in play.
Outsourcing screws the working class. Ultimately, I believe it screws the Middle class, what there is of it left, as well. There's room for debate there. Having such a large segment of our assets overseas..and subject to vagaries of fortune such as wars,natural disaster, nationalization--never made long-term sense to me. It is a gamble..and if the dice come-up snake eyes...it is the middle class..the pension funds..the retirement plans..that will bear the brunt.

But the one thing that is clear..is that it is not a partisan thing. It is a red herring to throw out taxes and fees..while they are an inconvenience..they are not what drives outsourcing.
Wages do..followed by reduced regulation.

Ahhhh --- if only life were so simple, huh?

It is the pecuniary responsibility of corporate executives to maximize the income of their investors. Anything less is malfeasance, and is punishable, by law. Hence, a move to reduced wages is not only a sound business move, but one demanded by investors. When the executives do a good job, they are rewarded. When they don't, they are fired - or sent to jail.

And, who are those investors? You. Me. Your grandma. My company. Your bank.

I'm not sure I've ever heard someone complain that taxes and fees were driving countries overseas. Those are certainly the reason money STAYS overseas. It makes no sense to bring the money back here, forfeit 30% of it to the government when I can leave it there, invest it there, and make more of it.

The primary reason for outsourcing is the "cost of doing business". It's convenient, and simplistic, for you to claim that businesses just don't want to pay more wages. But ....

1) A warehouse in Seoul, Korea costs about $.09 per square foot/month - in the US, it's closer to $1.38 per sq ft/month. A 200,000 sq ft facility in the US is about $225,000 per month; in Korea, it's about $18,000 per month.

2) The "wrap rate" - the additional costs of a worker [vacation, benefits, taxes, etc] in the US averages about $0.58/$1 .... in Brazil, the wrap rate is about $0.07/$1. $10 worth of labor in the US has a surcharge of $5.80 - thus, actually costing me $15.81, but in Brazil, it's $.70 surcharge - or $10.70.

3) The list goes on - electricity is cheaper, housing is cheaper, transportation is cheaper, food is cheaper - on and on and on.

4) Do wages have an impact? Of course - According to the U.S Census Bureau "The per capita income for the overall population in 2008 was $26,964; ..." In Korea ...In Korea, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 19 372 a year," or, about 24% less ... In most 3rd World countries, the average salary is about $700-900 per month.

5) Frankly, the American worker can't increase productivity enough to justify the difference in labor costs. (Translated: the American worker isn't worth the investment required) In addition, the American worker doesn't seem to be interested in increasing his value to his employer - instead he, like you, whine and complain trying to get the government to force the company to hire you even though you are not a sound investment.

6) But, for you to claim wages is the reason for outsourcing is disingenuous and simplistic - it is the cost of doing business. The country that gives the best return on investment gets the business --- it's the law.

Well dang..the voice of reason..who'd have thunk? Yews, I agree..I simplified it..because i get caught in these things..by peoepl that jsutwant me to work..and then they run

BUT - I hope you can see how you've contributed to the problem.

Most middle class still work for their money, they don't have their money work for them. They trade a sound investment for a new TV or a new car.

When you simplify - and misrepresent - the issue, they listen. You've said it is all the fault of the rich - but, now you admit it isn't. You said wages was the reason for outsourcing - now, you admit it isn't. You make people think somebody is taking advantage of them when, in fact, it is their own failure to make themselves more marketable.

It isn't our responsibility to make it simple so everybody can understand it - rather, it is our responsibility to help them understand the complexity of it. They need to be educated so they can make smart decisions - and you're doing them a disservice by not giving them the whole toolset to do it.

You're looking for a boogeyman --- when none exists. Everybody is in it for themselves - and if you can't play the game, you're going to get hurt by it.

Errrk. Slow down...I said I simplified it..but wages ARE a big reason to outsource. outsourcing is, to some extent, the fault of the rich..in that..they could agitate to change the system..but since at this point, the system is on their side, why would they? As for the Middle Class? That TV or car...is value for value..that investment..may not be.

One toss-off remark deserves another....and saying that the Democrats are why poor folk have to go to Walmart and buy crap..is just as simple..and, I think..just as dangerous. Perhaps we both need to watch our knee-jerks...and be a bit more explanatory. It is hard to do..on a site such as this.

I guess...to the bulk of America..the system IS the Boogeyman!

OH?

I don't understand how outsourcing could be the FAULT of the rich. Their shares carry no more votes than yours. Just like you, they hold corporate executives responsible to produce maximum return. You're blaming them - but have no logical rationale about why.

Believe me - the comment about Democrats wasn't a toss-off ... I meant every word of it, and can justify it, as well. Without going into great detail - though, I can, if you like - we know that the primary problem facing the poor population today is the dissolution of the family unit. We also know that social programs, primarily instituted by Democrats, contribute to the social and financial decay. Compound that with the give-away programs of the left, and we have a major segment of our society dependent on government largesse, rather than bonding together to face the travails of life. The government has replaced the husband as the breadwinner. The government has replaced the wife as a source of succor and support. The government has taken on child-rearing responsibilities. Government rules have replaced morality and accountability.

It is NOT an accident that more African American babies were aborted last year than were born. It's not an accident that 77% of poor children are born to a single-parent household. Democrat "social justice" programs have replaced drive and self-determination. Bad schools ensure people can't advance. Schools do not prepare people for the workforce.

The list goes on and on ---- Democrat (liberal) programs have created a permanent underclass of poor and dependent.

Hmmm..a lot to digest..you gave a systemic answer...a lot of which..I'm not sure is the fault of either political party. I think at least some of what you are alluding to has to do with process...assimilation...acculturation...the inevitable rise of capital to the top..with not enough going back into the system. Overpopulation...generational poverty...some of these have been aggravated by the left..some by the right. Some are inevitable..and time will work it out..or not.

The thing is..is that is DOES matter to whom you are born to..yes..upwards mobility can still happen on our culture..far more than in others..which is what makes us so attractive to others--but 'bootstraps' is a dirty word..to an inner city youth whose life is screwed from the gate.
I think..that the 'giveaway' argument..held a lot more water 20 years ago. Other than food stamps and Medicare--govt. assistance is thin on the ground..at least in Idaho.

I freely admit..I'm old and insulated...I'll never miss a meal..even though I should! Unemployment in Twin Falls is like 2.2%...I doubt that anyone is standing in line at the welfare office.

At the core of the argument..is the idea..that there are going to be losers..just as the 2nd amendment means that there are going to be innocents killed. It is what it is.
Should a nation such as our acknowledge that..and move on? Or should we spread some resource around. I think that how you answer that..may well define R vs D.

I won't get into the systemic racism argument....but, if we want the American dream accessible..jobs for all..are a part of it..and unless we get rid of all the illegals..and not even then, probably..those jobs..are not there..they just are not.

So..losers. I don't think it's the programs, though..just by logic..if those programs did not exist..had never existed..what would things be like now? Better? Maybe.
How many deaths would have happened for that bit of social Darwinism to play out? Who would have born the brunt of it/ We both know the answer.

You used the term , "bonding together to face the travails of life." Sounds quite..noble. How many southern whites would have bonded with the inner city blacks of the 60's?
I think..that if you mean, 'like to like'. It would have been a recipe for disaster. Our strength is in our ability to assimilate. Look at Europe..their policies of ghettoization have come back to haunt them, big time.

My Dad used to say to me.."The only equality in America is economic equality." It made a profound impression..and I believe it to be true. A black billionaire is a billionaire.
A poor black..is a n****r.

 

[rightwinger]

Who makes sure that the poor cannot afford American-made goods?

Democrats, any other questions?

God..of all the shit on this site...What I hate the worst are those dip-shits who will take a tiny piece of your post..and respond to it...it's intellectually dishonest. I guess I should expect no less.

No..assmuncher....it is not a Party thing.....it is a rich people thing. Outsourcing is non-partisan...and it leads to higher prices for American-made goods. Also, fewer Americans can make the higher wages..so they have to buy the out-sourced crap foisted on them because of corporate strategy.

In other words, I pointed out that its the Democratic party that taxes and fees the crap out of the poor and middle class FACT and you are butthurt.

It is Republicans who cut funding for housing, healthcare, education, transportation

Just so they can fund tax cute for the wealthy

You lie.

Nope

 

[BluesLegend]

Democrats, any other questions?

God..of all the shit on this site...What I hate the worst are those dip-shits who will take a tiny piece of your post..and respond to it...it's intellectually dishonest. I guess I should expect no less.

No..assmuncher....it is not a Party thing.....it is a rich people thing. Outsourcing is non-partisan...and it leads to higher prices for American-made goods. Also, fewer Americans can make the higher wages..so they have to buy the out-sourced crap foisted on them because of corporate strategy.

In other words, I pointed out that its the Democratic party that taxes and fees the crap out of the poor and middle class FACT and you are butthurt.

It is Republicans who cut funding for housing, healthcare, education, transportation

Just so they can fund tax cute for the wealthy

You lie.

Nope

Shouldn't you be off gathering food and water for the Nibiru catastrophe next week.