Raise the minimum wage and see what is waiting for that to happen!!!

[NYcarbineer]

Look you "compassionate" raise the minimum are burying your heads in the sand.
Why do you think there are now 22 million cleaners, lawnmowers,dishwashers,waiters and with 95,000 now in production.. more to come?
Hey you want people to continue to become unemployed because they are unskilled in basic business tenets, be on time and be there is met by the
robot! Most unskilled entry level jobs really only require that.. and given higher starting minimum wages... those qualities can be replaced!
FACTS not compassionate bleatings of ignorant people like you!

Do you realize that you are saying that the US has two choices,

either be a country with a chronic unemployment problem because machines do all the work,

or be a country where a huge percentage of the population are the working poor.

...you know, faced with those grim alternatives, maybe what we really should be doing is putting more effort into curbing population growth...

that would mean birth control and family planning. the right doesn't like that either.

what the shill proposes is a steady flow of cheap labor, chronically un and under employed and desperate to feed the corporatist machine.

of course, the largest growth in the middle class occurred AFTER economic protections, like the FLSA were put in place.

but let's go back to dickensian england and poor houses to make the radical right happy.

They call abortion and birth control a 'genocide' against black America.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Neither end of this argument wants to admit this (of course), but there are many cross-currents to this issue that makes it complicated as hell. The minimum wage will have to be increased, especially since we've spent the last couple of generations creating an essentially helpless underclass (Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable) and we have to take care of them. That's our penance. It is what it is.

Still, we have to consider:

• Automation costs have become so low that they're a viable alternative to human beings at some cost point, and that point is right above (or even at) labor costs right now
• Intra-industry stratification: For example, pushing prices up at places like McDonald's, if even a few pennies, brings them closer to the next level up in the food industry to what's known as "fast casual" (such as Qdoba, Panera Bread, Chipotle), and if the percentage increases are higher than at those companies they'll lose significant business to those competitors, and, ultimately, some jobs will have to go and could also be gobbled up by automation
• Domestic industries that compete on a global scale and that have any significant portion of their labor force at the lower cost end will see clear compression of profits at the worst possible time
• Wages for everyone at some levels over the MW will also have to increase, and all of the above issues could easily be exacerbated by those increases

Not to mention the obvious issue of simply "giving" people more money for exactly no more value or productivity, but I'm pretty sure that's a "real mean" thing to point out.

I'm guessing it'll end up at +/- $10.50, and this will cause some problems. The question is whether it will be an overall boon or bane. Either way, our real problems are far deeper than the MW, they're cultural, and addressing them would be a real bitch at fundraising time.

Meh. We don't have much choice. It's just frustrating seeing so many under-informed and naive arguments. "Just raise it, no big deal, the companies can afford it". If only it were that easy. But this is about politics and punishing profits.

.

 

[rondog690]

So. I am a robot builder. I am safe


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[healthmyths]

Look you "compassionate" raise the minimum are burying your heads in the sand.
Why do you think there are now 22 million cleaners, lawnmowers,dishwashers,waiters and with 95,000 now in production.. more to come?
Hey you want people to continue to become unemployed because they are unskilled in basic business tenets, be on time and be there is met by the
robot! Most unskilled entry level jobs really only require that.. and given higher starting minimum wages... those qualities can be replaced!
FACTS not compassionate bleatings of ignorant people like you!

Do you realize that you are saying that the US has two choices,

either be a country with a chronic unemployment problem because machines do all the work,

or be a country where a huge percentage of the population are the working poor.

...you know, faced with those grim alternatives, maybe what we really should be doing is putting more effort into curbing population growth...

Where are your f...king facts a "huge percentage of population are working poor"?

See this is the problem with you idiots!

YOU ALWAYS ALWAYS GUESS and make stupid uninformed "HUGE percentage"!
HERE you dumb f...k READ what I read from the bureau of labor statistics... ANYONE with a half a brain can see there IS NOT A "HUGE Percentage"!!!

SOURCE: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

Table 1. Wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the prevailing federal minimum wage, by selected characteristics, 2013 annual averages
A) Total workers 16 years and older PAID hourly wage --- 75,948,000 (75.9 million)
B) Total workers at minimum or below 3,300,000 (3.3 million) OR what f...king HUGE percentage??? 4.35% ! WHAT the f..k is "HUGE percentage" of 4.35%???
C) Total workers at minimum or below 16 to 19 years old 797,000! Again ENTRY low no skilled workers! these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..
D) Workers 25 and old 1,638,000 or 2.1% AGAIN who do you think these are brain surgeons.. these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..

NOW how many are FULL TIME??? Dumb f..k read the table from the bureau but since you GUESS here ..
Full time workers at minimum or below 1,173,000 or another HUGE HUGE 1.54%!!!
Part time less then 35 hours: 2,125,000 or 2.79% "HUGE HUGE... f...king Percentage"

You idiots that obviously have NO knowledge on how to get from the government valid statistics are just disgusting!
YOU make your totally wild eyed hyperbolic grossly blown out of proportion statements!

 

[healthmyths]

.

Neither end of this argument wants to admit this (of course), but there are many cross-currents to this issue that makes it complicated as hell. The minimum wage will have to be increased, especially since we've spent the last couple of generations creating an essentially helpless underclass (Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable) and we have to take care of them. That's our penance. It is what it is.

Still, we have to consider:

• Automation costs have become so low that they're a viable alternative to human beings at some cost point, and that point is right above (or even at) labor costs right now
• Intra-industry stratification: For example, pushing prices up at places like McDonald's, if even a few pennies, brings them closer to the next level up in the food industry to what's known as "fast casual" (such as Qdoba, Panera Bread, Chipotle), and if the percentage increases are higher than at those companies they'll lose significant business to those competitors, and, ultimately, some jobs will have to go and could also be gobbled up by automation
• Domestic industries that compete on a global scale and that have any significant portion of their labor force at the lower cost end will see clear compression of profits at the worst possible time
• Wages for everyone at some levels over the MW will also have to increase, and all of the above issues could easily be exacerbated by those increases

Not to mention the obvious issue of simply "giving" people more money for exactly no more value or productivity, but I'm pretty sure that's a "real mean" thing to point out.

I'm guessing it'll end up at +/- $10.50, and this will cause some problems. The question is whether it will be an overall boon or bane. Either way, our real problems are far deeper than the MW, they're cultural, and addressing them would be a real bitch at fundraising time.

Meh. We don't have much choice. It's just frustrating seeing so many under-informed and naive arguments. "Just raise it, no big deal, the companies can afford it". If only it were that easy. But this is about politics and punishing profits.

.

WHERE ARE YOUR f..king FACTS when you say: "The minimum wage will have to be increased, especially since we've spent the last couple of generations creating an essentially helpless underclass (Confident Idiots: American Students Growing More Confident, Less Capable) and we have to take care of them. That's our penance. It is what it is."

FACTS dumb sh.... FACTS where are your CREATING essentially helpless" WHAT are the numbers??
HERE ARE THE FACTS!


YOU ALWAYS ALWAYS GUESS and make stupid uninformed "HUGE percentage"!
HERE you dumb f...k READ what I read from the bureau of labor statistics... ANYONE with a half a brain can see there IS NOT A "HUGE Percentage"!!!

SOURCE: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

Table 1. Wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the prevailing federal minimum wage, by selected characteristics, 2013 annual averages
A) Total workers 16 years and older PAID hourly wage --- 75,948,000 (75.9 million)
B) Total workers at minimum or below 3,300,000 (3.3 million) OR what f...king HUGE percentage??? 4.35% ! WHAT the f..k is "HUGE percentage" of 4.35%???
C) Total workers at minimum or below 16 to 19 years old 797,000! Again ENTRY low no skilled workers! these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..
D) Workers 25 and old 1,638,000 or 2.1% AGAIN who do you think these are brain surgeons.. these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..

NOW how many are FULL TIME??? Dumb f..k read the table from the bureau but since you GUESS here ..
Full time workers at minimum or below 1,173,000 or another HUGE HUGE 1.54%!!!
Part time less then 35 hours: 2,125,000 or 2.79% "HUGE HUGE... f...king Percentage"

You idiots that obviously have NO knowledge on how to get from the government valid statistics are just disgusting!
YOU make your totally wild eyed hyperbolic grossly blown out of proportion statements!

USE f...king facts as I have and then tell me a "helpless underclass" where are they??

 

[candycorn]

So go ahead raise minimum wage and see the below are WAITING to replace less competent entry level under 19 year olds...

Dawn of a robot revolution as army of machines escape the factory - FT.com

“Ten years ago it took five minutes for a robot just to recognise the object in front of it was a table,” says Alin Albu-Schaeffer, director of the Institute of Robotics and Mechatronics at the German Aerospace Centre (DLR). “Many aspects of robotics are now reaching a critical mass . . . service robotics is coming.”
Approximately 95,000 new professional service robots, worth some $17.1bn, are set to be installed for professional use between 2013 and 2015, according to the International Federation of Robotics. That excludes an estimated 22m domestic service robots – the autonomous vacuum cleaners and lawnmowers that are already becoming a familiar sight to consumers.

So you are arguing that people should always be paid shitty wages because if they are paid any more, service robots will take over?

I predict a lot of people on welfare if this happens.

It's all BS.

If robots could do the job better/faster/cheaper, they'd be at your local Wal-Mart already. They aren't.

Myths is just spreading the only commodity the GOP has left; fear.

 

[Mac1958]

FACTS dumb sh.... FACTS where are your CREATING essentially helpless" WHAT are the numbers??
HERE ARE THE FACTS!

So this time I'm a liberal.

Partisan ideologues are a hoot.

.

 

[healthmyths]

So go ahead raise minimum wage and see the below are WAITING to replace less competent entry level under 19 year olds...

Dawn of a robot revolution as army of machines escape the factory - FT.com

“Ten years ago it took five minutes for a robot just to recognise the object in front of it was a table,” says Alin Albu-Schaeffer, director of the Institute of Robotics and Mechatronics at the German Aerospace Centre (DLR). “Many aspects of robotics are now reaching a critical mass . . . service robotics is coming.”
Approximately 95,000 new professional service robots, worth some $17.1bn, are set to be installed for professional use between 2013 and 2015, according to the International Federation of Robotics. That excludes an estimated 22m domestic service robots – the autonomous vacuum cleaners and lawnmowers that are already becoming a familiar sight to consumers.

So you are arguing that people should always be paid shitty wages because if they are paid any more, service robots will take over?

I predict a lot of people on welfare if this happens.

It's all BS.

If robots could do the job better/faster/cheaper, they'd be at your local Wal-Mart already. They aren't.

Myths is just spreading the only commodity the GOP has left; fear.

You idiot! I shop at walmart ALL the time and almost always go through the self serve counter... i.e. don't need a clerk to process my order!
Walmart is putting more and more self serve counters in all their stores!
That is the same dumb f...k!
Plus you dummy... HOW MANY walmart employees WORK at Walmart first? YOU don't know do you dummy!

Employees 2.2 million (2013)
Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a recent interview, Walmart CEO Mike Duke told CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo, “The vast majority of our associates are paid more than [the minimum wage],” estimating that “less than one percent” are paid at that level.
Read more: Yes, Walmart Employees Earn More than Minimum Wage, but They Still Don't Make Much | Care2 Causes

1% of 2.2 million is 22,000! That's it and you idiots make such stupid stupid EXAGGERATED HYPERBOLIC GUESSES!

 

[kiwiman127]

Most of the western industrial nations have raised wages for the working class faster than the US. Yet automation in the work place in those same countries, has not increased faster than the US, where wages have been flat for three decades.

==========================================
"Although economic growth in the United States continues to be as strong as in many other countries, or stronger, a small percentage of American households is fully benefiting from it. Median income in Canada pulled into a tie with median United States income in 2010 and has most likely surpassed it since then. Median incomes in Western European countries still trail those in the United States, but the gap in several — including Britain, the Netherlands and Sweden — is much smaller than it was a decade ago.
In European countries hit hardest by recent financial crises, such as Greece and Portugal, incomes have of course fallen sharply in recent years.

The income data were compiled by LIS, a group that maintains the Luxembourg Income Study Database. The numbers were analyzed by researchers at LIS and by The Upshot, a New York Times website covering policy and politics, and reviewed by outside academic economists.
The struggles of the poor in the United States are even starker than those of the middle class. A family at the 20th percentile of the income distribution in this country makes significantly less money than a similar family in Canada, Sweden, Norway, Finland or the Netherlands. Thirty-five years ago, the reverse was true.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/u...ass-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0
==================================================
Robotics have been on the increase at a steady pace for decades. Here's a very good article on the subject.
How Technology is Destroying Jobs
How Technology Is Destroying Jobs | MIT Technology Review

 

[healthmyths]

FACTS dumb sh.... FACTS where are your CREATING essentially helpless" WHAT are the numbers??
HERE ARE THE FACTS!

So this time I'm a liberal.

Partisan ideologues are a hoot.

.

You are NOT working with FACTS but hyperbole.. which is the modus operandi of liberals! Exaggeration of a characteristic of liberal/progressives.
The facts are there are less then 2 million people over 25 making less then minimum wage!

73 million hourly wage earners make over $7.25 many way over that!

But you people that deal in hyperbole are the same idiots that blew the true number of "uninsured" by 1,000% just to pass Obamacare!
There never were 46 million 'uninsured" but idiots like you continue to use BLOWN out of proportion numbers to gain attention to a minuscule problem!

 

[candycorn]

So you are arguing that people should always be paid shitty wages because if they are paid any more, service robots will take over?

I predict a lot of people on welfare if this happens.

It's all BS.

If robots could do the job better/faster/cheaper, they'd be at your local Wal-Mart already. They aren't.

Myths is just spreading the only commodity the GOP has left; fear.

You idiot! I shop at walmart ALL the time and almost always go through the self serve counter... i.e. don't need a clerk to process my order!

And this is your example....stuff that has been there for 10 years. Makes one wonder why there are any clerks left if it's such a better deal for the companies.

You make my case for me beautifully.

Walmart is putting more and more self serve counters in all their stores!
That is the same dumb f...k!

Again, if they could replace all of their cashiers, they would have done so already. The technology is there...but somehow it's not taken root. But those are the facts; this is your fantasy of gloom and doom. It's all you have left to offer to voters...."what if". Sad really but I'm sure those around you are use to disappointment.

Plus you dummy... HOW MANY walmart employees WORK at Walmart first? YOU don't know do you dummy!

Employees 2.2 million (2013)
Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a recent interview, Walmart CEO Mike Duke told CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo, “The vast majority of our associates are paid more than [the minimum wage],” estimating that “less than one percent” are paid at that level.
Read more: Yes, Walmart Employees Earn More than Minimum Wage, but They Still Don't Make Much | Care2 Causes

1% of 2.2 million is 22,000! That's it and you idiots make such stupid stupid EXAGGERATED HYPERBOLIC GUESSES!

I didn't make any guesses fuckstick. I simply reported the truth; that if companies could have done it, they would have done it. When I see a robot folding towels on the sales floor, I'll be the first to apologize. Of course, I don't frequent Wal*Mart that often--I'm able to shop somewhere where folks offer service and care.

 

[Faun]

Look you "compassionate" raise the minimum are burying your heads in the sand.
Why do you think there are now 22 million cleaners, lawnmowers,dishwashers,waiters and with 95,000 now in production.. more to come?
Hey you want people to continue to become unemployed because they are unskilled in basic business tenets, be on time and be there is met by the
robot! Most unskilled entry level jobs really only require that.. and given higher starting minimum wages... those qualities can be replaced!
FACTS not compassionate bleatings of ignorant people like you!

Do you realize that you are saying that the US has two choices,

either be a country with a chronic unemployment problem because machines do all the work,

or be a country where a huge percentage of the population are the working poor.

...you know, faced with those grim alternatives, maybe what we really should be doing is putting more effort into curbing population growth...

Where are your f...king facts a "huge percentage of population are working poor"?

See this is the problem with you idiots!

YOU ALWAYS ALWAYS GUESS and make stupid uninformed "HUGE percentage"!
HERE you dumb f...k READ what I read from the bureau of labor statistics... ANYONE with a half a brain can see there IS NOT A "HUGE Percentage"!!!

SOURCE: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

Table 1. Wage and salary workers paid hourly rates with earnings at or below the prevailing federal minimum wage, by selected characteristics, 2013 annual averages
A) Total workers 16 years and older PAID hourly wage --- 75,948,000 (75.9 million)
B) Total workers at minimum or below 3,300,000 (3.3 million) OR what f...king HUGE percentage??? 4.35% ! WHAT the f..k is "HUGE percentage" of 4.35%???
C) Total workers at minimum or below 16 to 19 years old 797,000! Again ENTRY low no skilled workers! these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..
D) Workers 25 and old 1,638,000 or 2.1% AGAIN who do you think these are brain surgeons.. these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..

NOW how many are FULL TIME??? Dumb f..k read the table from the bureau but since you GUESS here ..
Full time workers at minimum or below 1,173,000 or another HUGE HUGE 1.54%!!!
Part time less then 35 hours: 2,125,000 or 2.79% "HUGE HUGE... f...king Percentage"

You idiots that obviously have NO knowledge on how to get from the government valid statistics are just disgusting!
YOU make your totally wild eyed hyperbolic grossly blown out of proportion statements!

Some thousands of years ago, people like you would have been among those complaining that the invention of the wheel would put people out of work. Progress can't be stopped. Innovation can't be squelched. I bet you're angry that farmers utilize animals, tractors, etc., to help with their farming, huh?

 

[healthmyths]

It's all BS.

If robots could do the job better/faster/cheaper, they'd be at your local Wal-Mart already. They aren't.

Myths is just spreading the only commodity the GOP has left; fear.

You idiot! I shop at walmart ALL the time and almost always go through the self serve counter... i.e. don't need a clerk to process my order!

And this is your example....stuff that has been there for 10 years. Makes one wonder why there are any clerks left if it's such a better deal for the companies.

You make my case for me beautifully.

Walmart is putting more and more self serve counters in all their stores!
That is the same dumb f...k!

Again, if they could replace all of their cashiers, they would have done so already. The technology is there...but somehow it's not taken root. But those are the facts; this is your fantasy of gloom and doom. It's all you have left to offer to voters...."what if". Sad really but I'm sure those around you are use to disappointment.

Plus you dummy... HOW MANY walmart employees WORK at Walmart first? YOU don't know do you dummy!

Employees 2.2 million (2013)
Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In a recent interview, Walmart CEO Mike Duke told CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo, “The vast majority of our associates are paid more than [the minimum wage],” estimating that “less than one percent” are paid at that level.
Read more: Yes, Walmart Employees Earn More than Minimum Wage, but They Still Don't Make Much | Care2 Causes

1% of 2.2 million is 22,000! That's it and you idiots make such stupid stupid EXAGGERATED HYPERBOLIC GUESSES!

I didn't make any guesses fuckstick. I simply reported the truth; that if companies could have done it, they would have done it. When I see a robot folding towels on the sales floor, I'll be the first to apologize. Of course, I don't frequent Wal*Mart that often--I'm able to shop somewhere where folks offer service and care.

YEA that's what I thought! POMPOUS arrogant supposedly compassionate but won't shop where the rest of us shop!
YOU effete elitists who are so concerned about the "poor" won't shop where the poor shop because most of the prices are lower idiot!
Of course being the elitists who can tell others how to live i.e. Obama and at the same time thumb your nose at people you consider less qualified
then you... how pompous!

AND YOU don't make GUESSES?????
you have NO f..king idea how many people work at minimum or less the minimum wage UNLESS I did the work and found for you dumb f..K!

A) Total workers 16 years and older PAID hourly wage --- 75,948,000 (75.9 million)
B) Total workers at minimum or below 3,300,000 (3.3 million) OR what f...king HUGE percentage??? 4.35% ! WHAT the f..k is "HUGE percentage" of 4.35%???
C) Total workers at minimum or below 16 to 19 years old 797,000! Again ENTRY low no skilled workers! these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..
D) Workers 25 and old 1,638,000 or 2.1% AGAIN who do you think these are brain surgeons.. these people will be replaced by robots... cheaper..

AND YOU want those people to be replaced by robots dumb shit... I want them to have entry level job skills that I and most employers are looking for,
i.e. will you be on time every day? The two most essential characteristics of an entry level person!
Because WITHOUT those characteristics... the entry level person becomes like idiots like you... working whenever you want and as a result you probably aren't working are you??? YOU are one of those idiots spouting all these bromides and living at home with your parents!