Q:How badly is govt-sponsored education failing? A: A significant number are voting for a socialist!

[jillian]

There is no better indication of the utter failure of the U.S. govt-sponsored educational system, than this: In a country that was founded on personal responsibility and charity, limited government, hard work and taking the consequences of your own success and failure, help from friends and family... a significant number of people are now voting for an admitted socialist (Bernie Sanders) and various other wannabees who won't admit they are socialists (Hillary, Bloomberg et. al.).

It's about as far from the American ideal as one can get. One of the foremost characteristics of socialism, is the destruction of private property rights. If you build a house, it doesn't belong to you. It belongs to your neighbor, your city, a bunch of complete strangers as much as it does to you. If you grow an apple tree, the apples aren't yours, they belong to everyone else equally. This characteristic leads to the failure of socialist economy after socialist economy, as hardworking people realize there is no benefit to working harder, since the results will be taken from them.

Yet now we have a large number of people who simply listen to the sweet rhetoric of "Everyone will get an equal share, no one will be left behind, etc.", without any consideration that they will be getting equal shares of less and less.

The idea that they can now legally get stuff for free that other people worked to produce, is becoming the dominant factor in more and more people's lives. It's a far cry from the American ideal that government's job is to protect your rights, including the right to keep what you own. One of the main jobs of a socialist-style government, is to take things from people who have more and give them to those who have less.

The educational system has utterly failed to point out the disasters that have befallen nearly every country that has tried to live this way. As a result, we find ourselves on the ever-steepening slope to yet more disaster... with the wreckage of societies that have tried it before, all around us.

The only remaining question is:

Is this really a failure as I describe here? Or is it exactly what the people behind this downhill trend, intended all along?

just because you're a failure and learned nothing does not mean that schools failed.

my family's experience with public school was pretty wonderful.

but then again, we're not idiots.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

Indeed. Look at the chronic repetitions of "Soak the Rich", "Evil Wall Street", "dingbat dupes", and other ranting from various liberal fanatics.

Your diagnosis is on the mark.

 

[Arianrhod]

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

Indeed. Look at the chronic repetitions of "Soak the Rich", "Evil Wall Street", "dingbat dupes", and other ranting from various liberal fanatics.

Your diagnosis is on the mark.

bripat is not a liberal. However, his mastery of posts that say nothing (aside from the "liberal" use of scatological descriptors) is what I was addressing.

 

[Unkotare]

...

but then again, we're not idiots.

You mean other than you, of course.

 

[NYcarbineer]

There is no better indication of the utter failure of the U.S. govt-sponsored educational system, than this: In a country that was founded on personal responsibility and charity, limited government, hard work and taking the consequences of your own success and failure, help from friends and family... a significant number of people are now voting for an admitted socialist (Bernie Sanders) and various other wannabees who won't admit they are socialists (Hillary, Bloomberg et. al.).

It's about as far from the American ideal as one can get. One of the foremost characteristics of socialism, is the destruction of private property rights. If you build a house, it doesn't belong to you. It belongs to your neighbor, your city, a bunch of complete strangers as much as it does to you. If you grow an apple tree, the apples aren't yours, they belong to everyone else equally. This characteristic leads to the failure of socialist economy after socialist economy, as hardworking people realize there is no benefit to working harder, since the results will be taken from them.

Yet now we have a large number of people who simply listen to the sweet rhetoric of "Everyone will get an equal share, no one will be left behind, etc.", without any consideration that they will be getting equal shares of less and less.

The idea that they can now legally get stuff for free that other people worked to produce, is becoming the dominant factor in more and more people's lives. It's a far cry from the American ideal that government's job is to protect your rights, including the right to keep what you own. One of the main jobs of a socialist-style government, is to take things from people who have more and give them to those who have less.

The educational system has utterly failed to point out the disasters that have befallen nearly every country that has tried to live this way. As a result, we find ourselves on the ever-steepening slope to yet more disaster... with the wreckage of societies that have tried it before, all around us.

The only remaining question is:

Is this really a failure as I describe here? Or is it exactly what the people behind this downhill trend, intended all along?

The progress of civilization is leaving you behind.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

There is no better indication of the utter failure of the U.S. govt-sponsored educational system, than this: In a country that was founded on personal responsibility and charity, limited government, hard work and taking the consequences of your own success and failure, help from friends and family... a significant number of people are now voting for an admitted socialist (Bernie Sanders) and various other wannabees who won't admit they are socialists (Hillary, Bloomberg et. al.).

It's about as far from the American ideal as one can get. One of the foremost characteristics of socialism, is the destruction of private property rights. If you build a house, it doesn't belong to you. It belongs to you neighbor, your city, an bunch of complete stranger as much as it does to you. If you grow and apple tree, the apples aren't yours, they belong to everyone else equally. This characteristic leads to the failure of socialist economy after socialist economy, as hardworking people realize there is no benefit to working harder, since the results will be taken from them.

Yet now we have a large number of people who simply listen to the sweet rhetoric of "Everyone will get an equal share, no one will be left behind, etc.", without any consideration that they will be getting equal shares of less and less.

The educational system has utterly failed to point out the disasters that have befallen nearly every country that has tried to live this way. As a result, we find ourselves on the ever-steepening slope to yet more disaster... with the wreckage of societies that have tried it before, all around us.

The only remaining question is:

Is this really a failure as I describe here? Or is it exactly what the people behind this downhill trend, intended all along?

This post is something I'd expect from a delusional libertarian. First of all, public education does not destroy personal responsibility. Charities still exist, you know why the government stepped in? Charities couldn't meet the needs of the poor, and that's true today. Limited government? The government is pretty limited, and no, social programs aren't going to kill you. Hard work? Many americans are working more then 40 hours a week to make ends meet. People help their friends and family all the time. Bernie is a self admitted "DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST," and in the context of America, that refers to someone who wants regulations and social programs, not nationalization. Bernie has no plans for that. Hillary clinton and bloomberg are not socialists. Partisan idiots from the right throw around the word socialism without even understanding what it means. How is "socialism" as it is applied in the context most people see it as in America against the american ideal? Ah, there you have it, you finally recognize socialism refers to the abolition of private property rights for public ownership. Here's where you destroy yourself: Bernie and hillary support private property rights. Hell, most socialists are only talking about the means of production when they discuss nationalizing "property," not your house. I'm not even a socialist. Your point about houses is fucking hysterical. What modern day socialist wants to make your house public property in america that has any real following? Err, when you refer to the failures of "socialism' you're not talking about democratic "socialism" as seen today, you're talking about authoritarian states with no democracy. Bernie doesn't say "everyone will get an equal share." Ah, so you're trying to link the appeal of democratic "socialism' to the failure of our educational system? What the hell.. You might want to talk to uneducated whites who support trump. Oh, yeah, by the way, I wasn't aware europe was collapsing due to universal healthcare, a different college structure, etc.. etc..

If you want to help the poor, then limit the amount of time they are allowed to receive government help before they are completely turned down.

We have a public education system that is offered to all, what they do with that is the consequence of their own free will. I don't recall reading in our Constitution where it's the role of government to pick up after your mistakes. That is part of everyone's individual right to liberty .... through their OWN pursuit of happiness, it was never guaranteed. If you reject the opportunity to better yourself through education, turn down hard work to provide your own way of life, then you are the product of your own devises and the consequences your own choices have brought to you. The reason why the left believes in more government support, is through their rejection to ACCEPT personal responsibility, utilizing increased government dependency to buy and guarantee votes. What you allow yourself to be solely dependent upon, you become enslaved to ... without the freedom and ability to dictate your own personal decisions. When that happens, government is no longer assisting those to overcome their own poverty, they are enablers that keep them there.

 

[bripat9643]

so the ussr was a winner
Ven was a winner
Greece was a winner
china is a winner
NK is a winner

moron

Original EU, Canada, OZ, NZ- NOT 3rd world or communist, brainwashed functional moron.

The eu is in deep debt, deep deep debt.
Greece is not 3rd world
the USSR, china, NK only have a hairs breath difference from what you demand
And Ven was your poster child, but due to it's size, the end result, that we warned you about, came quickly, as it will everywhere.

They're in debt because your greedy idiot GOP wrecked the world, dupe. You are out of your mind. Fairness is hardly totalitarian, you mindless moron.

Wrong, lies, delusions

such a fucking moron

The gop destroyed the ussr, that it actually did, and you're fucking welcome.

the rest of the world killed itself, but you're so god damn dumb, and want to give up all your freedom so bad, that you actually think that's true b/c you can't recall that it was CLITONS housing failure that led to the collapse, b/c your too much of a fucking pussy to see the truth.

Gorby destroyed the USSR. We're lucky that demented Raygun didn't bring back the hard liners with his grandstanding bluster.

Funny how Fannie/Freddies' share of the market went from 75% to 25% when Booooshie regulators/cronies allowed toxic assets to be rated A+, insured, and sold around the world, dunce.

Clinton appointees were running Fannie and Freddie at the time, dumbass.

 

[bripat9643]

No they haven't been "taken away". How about a real example . This blurb is non sense :
It's about as far from the American ideal as one can get. One of the foremost characteristics of socialism, is the destruction of private property rights. If you build a house, it doesn't belong to you. It belongs to your neighbor, your city, a bunch of complete strangers as much as it does to you. If you grow an apple tree, the apples aren't yours, they belong to everyone else equally. This characteristic leads to the failure of socialist economy after socialist economy, as hardworking people realize there is no benefit to working harder, since the results will be taken from them.

TRANSLATION: I can't refute what you said, but I hate it anyway. So I'll call it names instead, try to pretend there's something wrong with it though I can't name anything, and try to avoid discussing the main point: That there are people in this country who would actually vote for someone who supports what you described.

That's COMMUNISM, brainwashed functional MORON. Socialism is simply fair capitalism with a good safety net, dingbat dupe.

No, that's socialism. Communism is just socialism by people who really mean it.

 

[francoHFW]

Original EU, Canada, OZ, NZ- NOT 3rd world or communist, brainwashed functional moron.

The eu is in deep debt, deep deep debt.
Greece is not 3rd world
the USSR, china, NK only have a hairs breath difference from what you demand
And Ven was your poster child, but due to it's size, the end result, that we warned you about, came quickly, as it will everywhere.

They're in debt because your greedy idiot GOP wrecked the world, dupe. You are out of your mind. Fairness is hardly totalitarian, you mindless moron.

Wrong, lies, delusions

such a fucking moron

The gop destroyed the ussr, that it actually did, and you're fucking welcome.

the rest of the world killed itself, but you're so god damn dumb, and want to give up all your freedom so bad, that you actually think that's true b/c you can't recall that it was CLITONS housing failure that led to the collapse, b/c your too much of a fucking pussy to see the truth.

Gorby destroyed the USSR. We're lucky that demented Raygun didn't bring back the hard liners with his grandstanding bluster.

Funny how Fannie/Freddies' share of the market went from 75% to 25% when Booooshie regulators/cronies allowed toxic assets to be rated A+, insured, and sold around the world, dunce.

Clinton appointees were running Fannie and Freddie at the time, dumbass.

Fannie and Freddie was not a problem. Until the Booshies got THERE. Can you read?

 

[bripat9643]

The oft-demonstrated fact that destruction of private property rights (one of the hallmarks of socialism) leads to the deterioration of prosperity and eventually the destruction of the society nearly every time.

"Oft-demonstrated"? Not in this thread. Start.

Reality has demonstrated it many times. For a perfect example, just look South to Venezuela.

This is not Venezuela.

Bernie will fix that.

I love this delusion liberal suffer from ...

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

 

[bripat9643]

The eu is in deep debt, deep deep debt.
Greece is not 3rd world
the USSR, china, NK only have a hairs breath difference from what you demand
And Ven was your poster child, but due to it's size, the end result, that we warned you about, came quickly, as it will everywhere.

They're in debt because your greedy idiot GOP wrecked the world, dupe. You are out of your mind. Fairness is hardly totalitarian, you mindless moron.

Wrong, lies, delusions

such a fucking moron

The gop destroyed the ussr, that it actually did, and you're fucking welcome.

the rest of the world killed itself, but you're so god damn dumb, and want to give up all your freedom so bad, that you actually think that's true b/c you can't recall that it was CLITONS housing failure that led to the collapse, b/c your too much of a fucking pussy to see the truth.

Gorby destroyed the USSR. We're lucky that demented Raygun didn't bring back the hard liners with his grandstanding bluster.

Funny how Fannie/Freddies' share of the market went from 75% to 25% when Booooshie regulators/cronies allowed toxic assets to be rated A+, insured, and sold around the world, dunce.

Clinton appointees were running Fannie and Freddie at the time, dumbass.

Fannie and Freddie was not a problem. Until the Booshies got THERE. Can you read?

As I told you, when Fannie and Freddie went down two Clinton appointees were running them.

 

[francoHFW]

They're in debt because your greedy idiot GOP wrecked the world, dupe. You are out of your mind. Fairness is hardly totalitarian, you mindless moron.

Wrong, lies, delusions

such a fucking moron

The gop destroyed the ussr, that it actually did, and you're fucking welcome.

the rest of the world killed itself, but you're so god damn dumb, and want to give up all your freedom so bad, that you actually think that's true b/c you can't recall that it was CLITONS housing failure that led to the collapse, b/c your too much of a fucking pussy to see the truth.

Gorby destroyed the USSR. We're lucky that demented Raygun didn't bring back the hard liners with his grandstanding bluster.

Funny how Fannie/Freddies' share of the market went from 75% to 25% when Booooshie regulators/cronies allowed toxic assets to be rated A+, insured, and sold around the world, dunce.

Clinton appointees were running Fannie and Freddie at the time, dumbass.

Fannie and Freddie was not a problem. Until the Booshies got THERE. Can you read?

As I told you, when Fannie and Freddie went down two Clinton appointees were running them.

Private lenders/Boooshie pals took over the market (75%) in 2003. That's why F+F only got 25% of the bailout.

 

[bripat9643]

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

Indeed. Look at the chronic repetitions of "Soak the Rich", "Evil Wall Street", "dingbat dupes", and other ranting from various liberal fanatics.

Your diagnosis is on the mark.

It's "hater dupes." You wouldn't want to misquote the resident forum crackpot.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong, lies, delusions

such a fucking moron

The gop destroyed the ussr, that it actually did, and you're fucking welcome.

the rest of the world killed itself, but you're so god damn dumb, and want to give up all your freedom so bad, that you actually think that's true b/c you can't recall that it was CLITONS housing failure that led to the collapse, b/c your too much of a fucking pussy to see the truth.

Gorby destroyed the USSR. We're lucky that demented Raygun didn't bring back the hard liners with his grandstanding bluster.

Funny how Fannie/Freddies' share of the market went from 75% to 25% when Booooshie regulators/cronies allowed toxic assets to be rated A+, insured, and sold around the world, dunce.

Clinton appointees were running Fannie and Freddie at the time, dumbass.

Fannie and Freddie was not a problem. Until the Booshies got THERE. Can you read?

As I told you, when Fannie and Freddie went down two Clinton appointees were running them.

Private lenders/Boooshie pals took over the market (75%) in 2003. That's why F+F only got 25% of the bailout.

How Many Bad Loans Did Fannie and Freddie Originate? | EconLog | Library of Economics and Liberty

The fact that private-label MBS exploded in the bubble years isn't great evidence against the theory that F&F spurred/prolonged/exacerbated a bubble. And the more a person believes in the inherent bubbliness of the private sector the more they should worry about the risks of massive government programs to encourage long-term lending.
Before the financial crisis, I would have expected a chart like the one above (from Barry Ritholz) to have little impact on normal economists' views of Fannie and Freddie's role in the crisis. Expectations, liquidity provision, government backstops: All would be worthy topics of discussion, their side effects would be fretted over. Back then intangible features of the economy like promises and beliefs and animal spirits got quite a bit of play. I liked and still like that kind of economics.
Coda: As I note in the review, Zandi used similarly opaque language in a coauthored policy paper, "The Future of the Mortgage Finance System," with a chart entitled "% share of mortgage originations." So he wasn't just writing informally for a popular audience.
Here's how you do Zandi's kind of chart transparently:

This is from the Mortgage Bankers Association; it's about multifamily, but the point stands: Here you can tell that mortgages are originated for Fannie and Freddie, not by them. Its gets readers looking in the right direction: Somebody originated loans for F&F, so maybe you should wonder about that party's incentives. Maybe this is what Zandi meant, maybe not, hard to say.​

 

[Arianrhod]

"Oft-demonstrated"? Not in this thread. Start.

Reality has demonstrated it many times. For a perfect example, just look South to Venezuela.

This is not Venezuela.

Bernie will fix that.

I love this delusion liberal suffer from ...

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

Because some Internet tough guy who doesn't even understand what socialism means says so.

 

[bripat9643]

Reality has demonstrated it many times. For a perfect example, just look South to Venezuela.

This is not Venezuela.

Bernie will fix that.

I love this delusion liberal suffer from ...

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

Because some Internet tough guy who doesn't even understand what socialism means says so.

The only people who don't understand socialism are the people who support it.

 

[Arianrhod]

This is not Venezuela.

Bernie will fix that.

I love this delusion liberal suffer from ...

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

Because some Internet tough guy who doesn't even understand what socialism means says so.

The only people who don't understand socialism are the people who support it.

Nope.

 

[bripat9643]

Bernie will fix that.

I love this delusion liberal suffer from ...

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

Because some Internet tough guy who doesn't even understand what socialism means says so.

The only people who don't understand socialism are the people who support it.

Nope.

Yep. All you leftwing nutburgers prove it every time you post. Not only do you not understand socialism, you don't understand capitalism. You support socialism because you've been brainwashed and bamboozled. Capitalism is what made this country the greatest in the world. Socialism is the road to destruction.

 

[Arianrhod]

Using magical incantations would suggest delusion.

True, which is why all Bernie and all his supporters are suffering from delusions.

Because some Internet tough guy who doesn't even understand what socialism means says so.

The only people who don't understand socialism are the people who support it.

Nope.

Yep.

Nope.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Indeed. Look at the chronic repetitions of "Soak the Rich", "Evil Wall Street", "dingbat dupes", and other ranting from various liberal fanatics.
Your diagnosis is on the mark.

It's "hater dupes." You wouldn't want to misquote the resident forum crackpot.

Quote:

That's COMMUNISM, brainwashed functional MORON. Socialism is simply fair capitalism with a good safety net, dingbat dupe.