Profound Question

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by midcan5, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    "This poor child of five was subjected to every possible torture by those cultivated parents. They beat her, thrashed her, kicked her for no reason till her body was one bruise. Then, they went to greater refinements of cruelty -- shut her up all night in the cold and frost in a privy, and because she didn't ask to be taken up at night (as though a child of five sleeping its angelic, sound sleep could be trained to wake and ask), they smeared her face and filled her mouth with excrement, and it was her mother, her mother did this. And that mother could sleep, hearing the poor child's groans! Can you understand why a little creature, who can't even understand what's done to her, should beat her little aching heart with her tiny fist in the dark and the cold, and weep her meek unresentful tears to dear, kind God to protect her? Do you understand that, friend and brother, you pious and humble novice? Do you understand why this infamy must be and is permitted? Without it, I am told, man could not have existed on earth, for he could not have known good and evil. Why should he know that diabolical good and evil when it costs so much? Why, the whole world of knowledge is not worth that child's prayer to dear, kind God'! I say nothing of the sufferings of grown-up people, they have eaten the apple, damn them, and the devil take them all! But these little ones! I am making you suffer, Alyosha, you are not yourself. I'll leave off if you like."

    "Nevermind. I want to suffer too," muttered Alyosha.

    "One picture, only one more, because it's so curious, so characteristic, and I have only just read it in some collection of Russian antiquities. I've forgotten the name. I must look it up. It was in the darkest days of serfdom at the beginning of the century, and long live the Liberator of the People! There was in those days a general of aristocratic connections, the owner of great estates, one of those men -- somewhat exceptional, I believe, even then -- who, retiring from the service into a life of leisure, are convinced that they've earned absolute power over the lives of their subjects. There were such men then. So our general, settled on his property of two thousand souls, lives in pomp, and domineers over his poor neighbours as though they were dependents and buffoons. He has kennels of hundreds of hounds and nearly a hundred dog-boys -- all mounted, and in uniform. One day a serf-boy, a little child of eight, threw a stone in play and hurt the paw of the general's favourite hound. 'Why is my favourite dog lame?' He is told that the boy threw a stone that hurt the dog's paw. 'So you did it.' The general looked the child up and down. 'Take him.' He was taken -- taken from his mother and kept shut up all night. Early that morning the general comes out on horseback, with the hounds, his dependents, dog-boys, and huntsmen, all mounted around him in full hunting parade. The servants are summoned for their edification, and in front of them all stands the mother of the child. The child is brought from the lock-up. It's a gloomy, cold, foggy, autumn day, a capital day for hunting. The general orders the child to be undressed; the child is stripped naked. He shivers, numb with terror, not daring to cry.... 'Make him run,' commands the general. 'Run! run!' shout the dog-boys. The boy runs.... 'At him!' yells the general, and he sets the whole pack of hounds on the child. The hounds catch him, and tear him to pieces before his mother's eyes!... I believe the general was afterwards declared incapable of administering his estates. Well -- what did he deserve? To be shot? To be shot for the satisfaction of our moral feelings? Speak, Alyosha!

    "To be shot," murmured Alyosha, lifting his eyes to Ivan with a pale, twisted smile.

    "Bravo!" cried Ivan delighted. "If even you say so... You're a pretty monk! So there is a little devil sitting in your heart, Alyosha Karamazov!"
     
  2. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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  3. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    how could a human even begin to comment on the perspective of a god?
     
  4. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Easily, most religious think they know exactly. But this is hypothetical you can answer as yourself, a mere mortal.
     
  5. Chips Rafferty
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    Chips Rafferty Active Member

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    According to His nauseatingly unctuous supporters, God is gutted that these poor little mites, His very own robokids, remember, suffer so grievously but His hands are tied.

    The terrible threat that the androids Adam and Eve posed to his omnipotence, when they predictably took His bait and sought godly knowledge, was too great, His tender feelings too aggrieved by their predestined disobedience, for God to do anything else but torment and torture ALL His tiny tots for all eternity.

    His followers further insist that there is nothing that God wouldn’t give to forget His jumped-up piss and importance and pardon all His automatons for their exceedingly heinous crime; unfortunately the dye was cast well before the Creation.

    It is not for want of trying that He is so intractably fanatical. Even sacrificing His own supernatural kid/self failed to mollify His insane vanity.

    So the answer, according to our self-appointed moral superiors is; don’t blame God, or even bring Him into the problem.

    Obviously the evil little bastards bought their suffering on themselves by being born to the distant ancestors of a freethinking Jewess with a fancy for magic apples.

    Given God's same set of extenuating circumstances, i.e. His creations criminally attempting to shed the shackles of superstition, ignorance, and proto-capitalist bondage, the Bible assures us there isn’t a genuine Christian man/woman on earth who wouldn’t kill his own kids for such wickedness.
     
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  6. Shogun
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    easily? hardly. How can you possibly extract your human perspective to an objective level enough to have any chance to do more than act like the standard dogma charlatan using the concept of god as a mouthpiece for personal human opinion? If I answer it myself, a mere mortal, how would that possible reflect on an answer from a god?
     
  7. midcan5
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    midcan5 liberal / progressive

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    Chips, in spite of your blasphemy you obviously know and understand religion. Catholic?


    Shogun, I guess I don't place things about religion or God so far out that I cannot think about them.


    It seems there are no tragedians among us who will hazard an answer. The question is rhetorical. A catch 22.
     
  8. Shogun
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    by all means think.

    and have a human opinion...

    I guess the greeks were thinking while their pantheon reflected their own human
    opinions too.
     
  9. Chips Rafferty
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    Chips Rafferty Active Member

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    Former inmate of a Christian Brother's concentration camp, an unwilling member of a Methodist Sunday school, and later an equally unwilling particpant in a Prezo Bible study.

    All of them at my Catholic Communist father's behest.

    As for my "blasphemy," the only blasphemy I have encountered in my 65 years is religion itself.
     
  10. Gunny
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    Gunny Gold Member

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    You and constant barrage of hate-filled rhetoric are every bit the worthless gutter dweller as those you accuse.
     

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