Prison Reform....And Psychiatric Hospitals

[Disir]

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

 

[Disir]

Va. case shows desperate need to put the mentally ill in treatment, not prison

Um, yes he does need to be prison.

Failing the Severely Mentally Ill

Father Of 2 Sons With Schizophrenia Talks Of His Struggle To Save Them

Where Law and Order Meets Paranoid and Schizophrenic

Va. case shows desperate need to put the mentally ill in treatment, not prison

Um, yes he does need to be in prison.

Needing a car, he attacked a 24-year-old woman, stabbing her once in the back before fleeing in her vehicle, which he crashed. His victim worked in the prosecutors' office. Sharikas smirked during his sentencing hearing, and a furious judge accused the teen of “insulting … the victim.”


“It’s a gamble to say that a child — he’s a child — could be cured, treated, made safe,” said the judge, according to The Washington Post. He displayed a woeful ignorance about the recovery rates of those with serious mental illnesses, especially teens.

-------------------------------------------------------

No he can't be cured. That would amount to taking medicine the rest of his life, and they do not like to be on medicine.

---------------------------------------------

The other two article don't say what they were locked up for.

------------------------------------also the article says:
Sharikas’ Palestinian-born mother, Sana Campbell, says her son has been raped and repeatedly beaten while incarcerated. Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at age 15, his family tried unsuccessfully to get him help before voices told him to drive to Manhattan from his suburban Northern Virginia home.​

You seem confused.

 

[JoeB131]

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

Because they worked out so well the first time... Out of sight, out of mind.

Oh, wait. No, they didn't. They were so horrible that we had to close them down.

 

[SweetSue92]

Right but not having mental hospitals and care homes because "back in the day" they were bad is no reason not to have them again. That's illogical.

I'm sure we can do them worse this time.

You see, the funny thing was back in the day, when the rich actually paid their fair share, there was plenty of money to fund these mental hospitals. True, not much was done to actually cure these folks because most of them are incurable.

I could imagine what they'd be like today if we had a choice between providing a poor person proper treatment and making sure a rich person could buy his Dressage Horse.

We'd probably fuck up that choice.

You see, being an old guy, I remember what it was like when they decided that locking people up against their will was unconstitutional. We had hoped that they would just transition to outpatient clinics. Nope. Didn't happen. Ronnie Ray-gun had more important priorities, like buying expensive military equipment and giving tax cuts to millionaires!

So funny thing. The neighborhood where I grew up was suddenly infested with the homeless panhandling. Fortunately, they never wandered more than a few blocks from the liquor store.

Won't be conversing with you anymore Joe. I offended the oppressive Middle Eastern religion you love so much so you called me an "Islamophobic Twat".

For those reading, I was called thus because I correctly cited the Hadith in which Mohammad mentions FGM. That is why I was called this name.

Get lost, Joe. You have a very small mind and you're not worth my time or serious discourse.

Joe is very scummy indeed.

Just put him on ignore.

 

[Penelope]

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

So they are not raped? I would imagine raping goes on in them. Do you want straitjackets and to drug them up.
They have meds in prison and solitaire.

Maybe these daddy daycares for white collar criminals should be locked up in state prisons and we can use them. They are like camps I read.

 

[Disir]

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

So they are not raped? I would imagine raping goes on in them. Do you want straitjackets and to drug them up.
They have meds in prison and solitaire.

Maybe these daddy daycares for white collar crimes should be locked up in state prisons and we can use them. They are like camps I read.

So.........you got nothing?

 

[Penelope]

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

Because they worked out so well the first time... Out of sight, out of mind.

Oh, wait. No, they didn't. They were so horrible that we had to close them down.

Agreed, abuse like crazy, unless one has money. Yes they want to be locked up, instead of being homeless, you are right, out of sight.

 

[SweetSue92]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

I am not even thinking of just dx like psychosis, but severe autism. This is very sad and I feel, believe me, for families affected by this. But adults with autism who have violent meltdowns are often very violent and VERY strong. They can be dangerous to themselves and others. They should NOT be in prison. They SHOULD be in well-run and homes with much oversight. It becomes too much, and very quickly, to expect parents to become 24/7 caretakers of these most severe cases.

 

[SweetSue92]

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.

This is a nationwide problem.

It not my problem you can't get your free meds..

I don't need meds. I've been working with the mentally ill since 2006. Welcome to ignore.

Thank you so much for weighing in on this thread. I hope you will hang in there because I really value your input.

I have been a public school teacher since the early 90s. If you haven't yet heard, take it from me--the stuff we are seeing EVERYwhere now...we can hardly believe it. Children running out of schools left and right. Total meltdowns. Crises everywhere. Behavioral, mental, you name it. It's an epidemic. We have to think of this now because in a few years.....

 

[SweetSue92]

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

So they are not raped? I would imagine raping goes on in them. Do you want straitjackets and to drug them up.
They have meds in prison and solitaire.

Maybe these daddy daycares for white collar crimes should be locked up in state prisons and we can use them. They are like camps I read.

So.........you got nothing?

You can only get so far with her. Here is a woman who believes the Holocaust did not happen. Just saying take that into consideration if you're trying to argue reasonably with her.

 

[Penelope]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

I am not even thinking of just dx like psychosis, but severe autism. This is very sad and I feel, believe me, for families affected by this. But adults with autism who have violent meltdowns are often very violent and VERY strong. They can be dangerous to themselves and others. They should NOT be in prison. They SHOULD be in well-run and homes with much oversight. It becomes too much, and very quickly, to expect parents to become 24/7 caretakers of these most severe cases.

Are you aware of what group homes are, They are state run, they house autism, PKU's, Downs, etc. If they become a danger to others, its time to lock them up. The GOP and Trump is working to cut funding for Medicaid in every state.

 

[JoeB131]

Thank you so much for weighing in on this thread. I hope you will hang in there because I really value your input.

I have been a public school teacher since the early 90s. If you haven't yet heard, take it from me--the stuff we are seeing EVERYwhere now...we can hardly believe it. Children running out of schools left and right. Total meltdowns. Crises everywhere. Behavioral, mental, you name it. It's an epidemic. We have to think of this now because in a few years.....

So you suck at your job and can't control a classroom? Have you considered doing something else for a living.

Much as I rip on the nuns, they could control a classroom.

 

[Penelope]

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

So they are not raped? I would imagine raping goes on in them. Do you want straitjackets and to drug them up.
They have meds in prison and solitaire.

Maybe these daddy daycares for white collar crimes should be locked up in state prisons and we can use them. They are like camps I read.

So.........you got nothing?

You can only get so far with her. Here is a woman who believes the Holocaust did not happen. Just saying take that into consideration if you're trying to argue reasonably with her.

No the holocaust did not happen, but WWII did.

 

[SweetSue92]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

I am not even thinking of just dx like psychosis, but severe autism. This is very sad and I feel, believe me, for families affected by this. But adults with autism who have violent meltdowns are often very violent and VERY strong. They can be dangerous to themselves and others. They should NOT be in prison. They SHOULD be in well-run and homes with much oversight. It becomes too much, and very quickly, to expect parents to become 24/7 caretakers of these most severe cases.

Are you aware of what group homes are, They are state run, they house autism, PKU's, Downs, etc. If they become a danger to others, its time to lock them up. The GOP and Trump is working to cut funding for Medicaid in every state.

Yes I am. And yes, you could house people who are a danger to others in state run psychiatric facilities rather than PRISONS. How many times do you need this same point made to you???

 

[Marion Morrison]

I'm for bringing back Mental Hospitals almost exactly like they were. No shock therapy and abuse, though.

A sizable chunk of what goes to the jails/prisons could be used for it, because they're there anyway.

Crazy covers a lot. You can have a harmless psychotic, a homicidal maniac, and a lightbulb whisperer, they all need to be in different wards. Right now they're just all in jail. Mental Hospitals worked well for a long time.

 

[SweetSue92]

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

I am suggesting that State run psychiatric hospitals are brought back---the point of the thread.

So they are not raped? I would imagine raping goes on in them. Do you want straitjackets and to drug them up.
They have meds in prison and solitaire.

Maybe these daddy daycares for white collar crimes should be locked up in state prisons and we can use them. They are like camps I read.

So.........you got nothing?

You can only get so far with her. Here is a woman who believes the Holocaust did not happen. Just saying take that into consideration if you're trying to argue reasonably with her.

No the holocaust did not happen, but WWII did.

Willfully ignorant. Or maybe just ignorant, period. But go your way. America.

 

[SweetSue92]

I'm for bringing back Mental Hospitals almost exactly like they were. No shock therapy and abuse, though.

A sizable chunk of what goes to the jails/prisons could be used for it, because they're there anyway.

Crazy covers a lot. You can have a harmless psychotic, a homicidal maniac, and a lightbulb whisperer, they all need to be in different wards. Right now they're just all in jail. Mental Hospitals worked well for around a century or more.

The tragic irony of shutting them down is that the alternative is so much worse. Because the alternative has been prison and homelessness. Which one liberal poster here has not minded too much, anyway.

 

[Marion Morrison]

I'm for bringing back Mental Hospitals almost exactly like they were. No shock therapy and abuse, though.

A sizable chunk of what goes to the jails/prisons could be used for it, because they're there anyway.

Crazy covers a lot. You can have a harmless psychotic, a homicidal maniac, and a lightbulb whisperer, they all need to be in different wards. Right now they're just all in jail. Mental Hospitals worked well for around a century or more.

The tragic irony of shutting them down is that the alternative is so much worse. Because the alternative has been prison and homelessness. Which one liberal poster here has not minded too much, anyway.

The reason they shut them down was Big Pharma claimed their chemical restraints would keep the crazy in check.
They really just wanted to make some state money, and the chemical restraints do not work. Bring back the real institutions!

 

[Penelope]

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.

This is a nationwide problem.

It not my problem you can't get your free meds..

I don't need meds. I've been working with the mentally ill since 2006. Welcome to ignore.

Thank you so much for weighing in on this thread. I hope you will hang in there because I really value your input.

I have been a public school teacher since the early 90s. If you haven't yet heard, take it from me--the stuff we are seeing EVERYwhere now...we can hardly believe it. Children running out of schools left and right. Total meltdowns. Crises everywhere. Behavioral, mental, you name it. It's an epidemic. We have to think of this now because in a few years.....

Yes that is with the advent of private schools and home schooling and now with Devos and Trump in charge, say goodbye to the public schools, they let the public schools go to the ruin. They raise our taxes every year and use the money elsewhere.

I am for getting rid of private and religious schools and you should be too.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm for bringing back Mental Hospitals almost exactly like they were. No shock therapy and abuse, though.

A sizable chunk of what goes to the jails/prisons could be used for it, because they're there anyway.

Crazy covers a lot. You can have a harmless psychotic, a homicidal maniac, and a lightbulb whisperer, they all need to be in different wards. Right now they're just all in jail. Mental Hospitals worked well for a long time.

Well, no, they didn't. They were places full of abuse and unsanitary conditions and the inmates were just warehoused.

15 Disturbing Stories About Mental Asylum Abuse

But here's the real problem why this won't happen. How much more are you willing to pay in taxes to get the homeless crazies off the heating grates and into a nice warm hospital?

Come on, you guys whine about poor people getting free stuff all the time. You really want some "light bulb whisperer" getting three hots and a cot that you are going to be paying for? Did you suddenly turn into a bleeding heart liberal when I wasn't looking?