Prison Reform....And Psychiatric Hospitals

[Disir]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

 

[Meathead]

You see, being an old guy, I remember what it was like when they decided that locking people up against their will was unconstitutional. We had hoped that they would just transition to outpatient clinics. Nope. Didn't happen. Ronnie Ray-gun had more important priorities, like buying expensive military equipment and giving tax cuts to millionaires!

So funny thing. The neighborhood where I grew up was suddenly infested with the homeless panhandling. Fortunately, they never wandered more than a few blocks from the liquor store.

You're either ignorant, a liar are both. I don't care if you're bonkers, but you're sleazy.

Over time, several court cases have further defined the legal requirements for admission to or retention in a hospital setting. In Lake v. Cameron, a 1966 D.C. Court of Appeals case, the concept of “least restrictive setting” was introduced, requiring hospitals to discharge patients to an environment less restrictive than a hospital if at all possible [11]. In the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson, the U.S. Supreme Court declared that a person had to be a danger to him- or herself or to others for confinement to be constitutional [12]

 

[Meathead]

Right but not having mental hospitals and care homes because "back in the day" they were bad is no reason not to have them again. That's illogical.

I'm sure we can do them worse this time.

You see, the funny thing was back in the day, when the rich actually paid their fair share, there was plenty of money to fund these mental hospitals. True, not much was done to actually cure these folks because most of them are incurable.

I could imagine what they'd be like today if we had a choice between providing a poor person proper treatment and making sure a rich person could buy his Dressage Horse.

We'd probably fuck up that choice.

You see, being an old guy, I remember what it was like when they decided that locking people up against their will was unconstitutional. We had hoped that they would just transition to outpatient clinics. Nope. Didn't happen. Ronnie Ray-gun had more important priorities, like buying expensive military equipment and giving tax cuts to millionaires!

So funny thing. The neighborhood where I grew up was suddenly infested with the homeless panhandling. Fortunately, they never wandered more than a few blocks from the liquor store.

Won't be conversing with you anymore Joe. I offended the oppressive Middle Eastern religion you love so much so you called me an "Islamophobic Twat".

For those reading, I was called thus because I correctly cited the Hadith in which Mohammad mentions FGM. That is why I was called this name.

Get lost, Joe. You have a very small mind and you're not worth my time or serious discourse.

Joe is very scummy indeed.

 

[Penelope]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes Mental health systems need a return. One side for non-violent, other side for the cray cray.

That boy in Broward county would have been in Chattahoochee and never hurt anyone if it was the 60s.

Psychiatry is more art than science. It is devlishly difficult to predict the future conductof those afflicted with psychological pathologies with any great degree of suuccess. It was decided that "mainstreaming" those who were deemed not violent and did not wish to be on custodial care was their right.

But now they are in prison. I don't think that's a great solution--long-term mental care in prison.

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

A case you might be interested in then: Albert Fish, serial killer, pedophile and absolutely bonkers. Can't say I disagreed with his execution.

Albert Fish - Wikipedia

Interesting, but I agree with you, but very seldom I think the death penalty is warranted. In his case, yes.
I think his genetics along with early childhood caused his metal illnesses and he had a strange sense of religion.
Father Time: Children with Older Dads at Greater Risk for Mental Illness

 

[JoeB131]

Won't be conversing with you anymore Joe. I offended the oppressive Middle Eastern religion you love so much so you called me an "Islamophobic Twat".

For those reading, I was called thus because I correctly cited the Hadith in which Mohammad mentions FGM. That is why I was called this name.

Get lost, Joe. You have a very small mind and you're not worth my time or serious discourse.

Awww.... are you sad someone is outdoing you in the religious crazy department, you dishonest and feckless... well, you know the rest.

I don't love any religion. I'm just tired of seeing fine young men come back without limbs or in boxes because of your religious stupidity.

Don't want a problem with Islam? Keep off their side of the fucking planet. This isn't complicated, even for a feckless... well, you know.

 

[Penelope]

The time is coming, and soon, when we are going to have to decide if we want prisons to house our critically mentally ill, or if we want psychiatric hospitals and long-term care facilities to do it.

We are doing the best we can in the K-12 schools with the explosion--and I do mean explosion--of mental, emotional, and behavioral issues in the last 5-10 years. But we can barely keep a lid on all that's going on, and if we had anything like a real media in this nation, you would be hearing about the violence that happens every day, in every school I know about, including preschools. Yes, preschools.

Many of these children are labeled "special needs", and that's not invalid. But the law doesn't care if you're special needs and you assault someone, especially once you turn 18. Unless something changes and fast, these people WILL end up in the penal system. Once there: are they going to end up in prison systems, or are we going to open up better facilities?

Should We Bring Back Public Psychiatric Hospitals?

Yes Mental health systems need a return. One side for non-violent, other side for the cray cray.

That boy in Broward county would have been in Chattahoochee and never hurt anyone if it was the 60s.

Psychiatry is more art than science. It is devlishly difficult to predict the future conductof those afflicted with psychological pathologies with any great degree of suuccess. It was decided that "mainstreaming" those who were deemed not violent and did not wish to be on custodial care was their right.

But now they are in prison. I don't think that's a great solution--long-term mental care in prison.

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

 

[Disir]

Yes Mental health systems need a return. One side for non-violent, other side for the cray cray.

That boy in Broward county would have been in Chattahoochee and never hurt anyone if it was the 60s.

Psychiatry is more art than science. It is devlishly difficult to predict the future conductof those afflicted with psychological pathologies with any great degree of suuccess. It was decided that "mainstreaming" those who were deemed not violent and did not wish to be on custodial care was their right.

But now they are in prison. I don't think that's a great solution--long-term mental care in prison.

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

 

[Disir]

Va. case shows desperate need to put the mentally ill in treatment, not prison

Failing the Severely Mentally Ill

Father Of 2 Sons With Schizophrenia Talks Of His Struggle To Save Them

Where Law and Order Meets Paranoid and Schizophrenic

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

And if they commit crimes, they should go to jail.

But 17% of the population struggles with some kind of mental illness. Are we going to lock them all up.

The real problem, is that if you are a well-off crazy person, you get treatment, and if you are a poor crazy person, you end up on the streets or in prison.

But since we aren't going to fix the underlying problem, we sure aren't going to fix the side effect.

 

[Disir]

Yes. Yes, we need to bring them back ASAP.

Long term care and possibly lifelong care. I can tell you horror stories. I have seen people in psych wards that went in and are violent and then are arrested after becoming violent. The holy hell is that?

In home care? The mother in her 60s trying to control the daughter in her 30s that is wielding knives in a psychotic break. The therapist in her 20s that comes out once a week is telling the daughter to ignore the mom and she needs to learn how to make her own decisions.....to live independently. Stops coming to the home because of the aggression and now wants the daughter to come to the office to tell her to make her own decisions, ignore mom and she needs to live independently.

Here is the deal and people need to get real used to this...........there is no profit to be made here. None. But, you will stop paying out in other areas. Consider the amount of money that is spent from the time of arrest, incarceration at jail, money spent on the judge, to be released when they are found to be unfit back on the street and then repeat until they wind up in prison. That's not counting the cost of the number of people that are harmed and require medical care through out that trip.

And if they commit crimes, they should go to jail.

But 17% of the population struggles with some kind of mental illness. Are we going to lock them all up.

The real problem, is that if you are a well-off crazy person, you get treatment, and if you are a poor crazy person, you end up on the streets or in prison.

But since we aren't going to fix the underlying problem, we sure aren't going to fix the side effect.

If you are well off then your relative goes to a mental health hospital in Europe because it doesn't exist in the States.

Don't be ludicrous. The article itself is not even suggesting a one size fits all approach.

 

[Penelope]

Psychiatry is more art than science. It is devlishly difficult to predict the future conductof those afflicted with psychological pathologies with any great degree of suuccess. It was decided that "mainstreaming" those who were deemed not violent and did not wish to be on custodial care was their right.

But now they are in prison. I don't think that's a great solution--long-term mental care in prison.

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

 

[Penelope]

Va. case shows desperate need to put the mentally ill in treatment, not prison

Um, yes he does need to be prison.

Failing the Severely Mentally Ill

Father Of 2 Sons With Schizophrenia Talks Of His Struggle To Save Them

Where Law and Order Meets Paranoid and Schizophrenic

Va. case shows desperate need to put the mentally ill in treatment, not prison

Um, yes he does need to be in prison.

Needing a car, he attacked a 24-year-old woman, stabbing her once in the back before fleeing in her vehicle, which he crashed. His victim worked in the prosecutors' office. Sharikas smirked during his sentencing hearing, and a furious judge accused the teen of “insulting … the victim.”


“It’s a gamble to say that a child — he’s a child — could be cured, treated, made safe,” said the judge, according to The Washington Post. He displayed a woeful ignorance about the recovery rates of those with serious mental illnesses, especially teens.

-------------------------------------------------------

No he can't be cured. That would amount to taking medicine the rest of his life, and they do not like to be on medicine.

---------------------------------------------

The other two article don't say what they were locked up for.

------------------------------------also the article says:
Sharikas’ Palestinian-born mother, Sana Campbell, says her son has been raped and repeatedly beaten while incarcerated. Diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia at age 15, his family tried unsuccessfully to get him help before voices told him to drive to Manhattan from his suburban Northern Virginia home.​

 

[JoeB131]

If you are well off then your relative goes to a mental health hospital in Europe because it doesn't exist in the States.

Don't be ludicrous. The article itself is not even suggesting a one size fits all approach.

Naw, we already have the approach. The well-off get good treatment, the poor get prison or a heating grate.

 

[Disir]

But now they are in prison. I don't think that's a great solution--long-term mental care in prison.

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

 

[Disir]

If you are well off then your relative goes to a mental health hospital in Europe because it doesn't exist in the States.

Don't be ludicrous. The article itself is not even suggesting a one size fits all approach.

Naw, we already have the approach. The well-off get good treatment, the poor get prison or a heating grate.

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.


This is a nationwide problem.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.

This is a nationwide problem.

It not my problem you can't get your free meds..

 

[Penelope]

So you are suggesting letting a serial murderer or pedophile to be in a long term mental institution. Both are sick in my opinion and in the opinion of most.

No. Someone who has committed such violent crimes should not be in a mental institution, they should be in prison, or perhaps a hybrid. But you realize people with serious mental disorders are in prison for much less than serial murder and pedophilia. And serial murder and pedophilia are not, by themselves, mental disorders.

What type of people with serious mental disorders are in prison, besides pedophilia and serial murderers?

Serious Mental Illness Prevalence in Jails and Prisons

So what crimes are they locked up for?

Everything from aggravated assault to murder to auto theft.

So are you suggesting letting then out only to commit the crimes again?

 

[Disir]

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.

This is a nationwide problem.

It not my problem you can't get your free meds..

I don't need meds. I've been working with the mentally ill since 2006. Welcome to ignore.

 

[Penelope]

If you are well off then your relative goes to a mental health hospital in Europe because it doesn't exist in the States.

Don't be ludicrous. The article itself is not even suggesting a one size fits all approach.

Naw, we already have the approach. The well-off get good treatment, the poor get prison or a heating grate.

Joe, you bore the hell out of me with your nonsensical shit. We aren't doing this.


This is a nationwide problem.

What do you suggest then??

 

[JoeB131]

I don't need meds. I've been working with the mentally ill since 2006. Welcome to ignore.

Reading your posts, it's clear it's rubbing off..