President takes first actions on guns and gun violence

[Quantum Windbag]

Presidential Memorandum -- Improving Availability of Relevant Executive Branch Records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Presidential Memorandum -- Tracing of Firearms in Connection with Criminal Investigations

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Feel free to explain how either of these will actually change anything. I am 100% positive that federal law already requires federal agencies to release information to the NICS database. In fact, at present, the government takes the position that you cannot challenge your inclusion in this database even if you have not been charged with, or convicted of, a crime. I am also 100% positive that the FBI, ATF, and all the rest of the alphabet that makes up federal law enforcement already track weapons recovered in crimes, they just don't tell the owner of a stolen weapon unless they need him to testify.

It takes a special kind of idiot to cheer the government for starting to do something they already do.

 

[PredFan]

Why and how does that erode your liberties? Since background checks are already required for nearly every gun purchase, do you object to that too, or just to expanding that already accepted and Constitutional idea further?

I do object to that, but I realize we lost that battle. Now I object to the government restricting my liberty to sell a gun to whomever I want to.

You'd like to claim the right to sell a gun to someone you know shouldn't have one? Why?

Strawman argument.

I want the right to sell a gun or buy a gun without the government interfering.

 

[hazlnut]

The President has begun taking specific actions to implement his list of goals relating to guns and gun violence.

Yesterday, he released 2 memorandum to department heads, which I will post separately below.

As his specific policies are released, I will post them in this thread for discussion. My source will be the White House homepage.

You realize we all support the 2nd Amendment.

We just don't support the NRA impeding federal law enforcement.

 

[PredFan]

Here's another memorandum, just issued today:



Presidential Memorandum -- Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

January 16, 2013


MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBJECT: Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

In addition to being a law enforcement challenge, gun violence is also a serious public health issue that affects thousands of individuals, families, and communities across the Nation. Each year in the United States there are approximately 30,000 firearm-related deaths, and approximately 11,000 of those deaths result from homicides. Addressing this critical issue requires a comprehensive, multifaceted approach.

Recent research suggests that, in developing such an approach, a broader public health perspective is imperative. Significant strides can be made by assessing the causes of gun violence and the successful efforts in place for preventing the misuse of firearms. Taking these steps will improve our understanding of the gun violence epidemic and will aid in the continued development of gun violence prevention strategies.

Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1. Research. The Secretary of Health and Human Services (Secretary), through the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other scientific agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services, shall conduct or sponsor research into the causes of gun violence and the ways to prevent it. The Secretary shall begin by identifying the most pressing research questions with the greatest potential public health impact, and by assessing existing public health interventions being implemented across the Nation to prevent gun violence.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 3. Publication. You are hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.


BARACK OBAMA

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

 

[PredFan]

The President has begun taking specific actions to implement his list of goals relating to guns and gun violence.

Yesterday, he released 2 memorandum to department heads, which I will post separately below.

As his specific policies are released, I will post them in this thread for discussion. My source will be the White House homepage.

You realize we all support the 2nd Amendment.

You support YOU interpretation of it and your interpretation means confiscating guns. You are full of shit.

We just don't support the NRA impeding federal law enforcement.

They don't. You are full of shit.

 

[Oldguy]

Presidential Memorandum -- Improving Availability of Relevant Executive Branch Records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Presidential Memorandum -- Tracing of Firearms in Connection with Criminal Investigations

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Feel free to explain how either of these will actually change anything. I am 100% positive that federal law already requires federal agencies to release information to the NICS database. In fact, at present, the government takes the position that you cannot challenge your inclusion in this database even if you have not been charged with, or convicted of, a crime. I am also 100% positive that the FBI, ATF, and all the rest of the alphabet that makes up federal law enforcement already track weapons recovered in crimes, they just don't tell the owner of a stolen weapon unless they need him to testify.

It takes a special kind of idiot to cheer the government for starting to do something they already do.

It's not a case of them not already doing it. They are. It's a case of doing it better.

What's wrong with that?

 

[Oldguy]

I do object to that, but I realize we lost that battle. Now I object to the government restricting my liberty to sell a gun to whomever I want to.

You'd like to claim the right to sell a gun to someone you know shouldn't have one? Why?

Strawman argument.

I want the right to sell a gun or buy a gun without the government interfering.

You don't have that unrestricted right and haven't for a long time. That's a well and often settled Constitutional issue. You're essentially demanding a right you've never had.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Here's another memorandum, just issued today:



Presidential Memorandum -- Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

January 16, 2013


MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBJECT: Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

In addition to being a law enforcement challenge, gun violence is also a serious public health issue that affects thousands of individuals, families, and communities across the Nation. Each year in the United States there are approximately 30,000 firearm-related deaths, and approximately 11,000 of those deaths result from homicides. Addressing this critical issue requires a comprehensive, multifaceted approach.

Recent research suggests that, in developing such an approach, a broader public health perspective is imperative. Significant strides can be made by assessing the causes of gun violence and the successful efforts in place for preventing the misuse of firearms. Taking these steps will improve our understanding of the gun violence epidemic and will aid in the continued development of gun violence prevention strategies.

Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1. Research. The Secretary of Health and Human Services (Secretary), through the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other scientific agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services, shall conduct or sponsor research into the causes of gun violence and the ways to prevent it. The Secretary shall begin by identifying the most pressing research questions with the greatest potential public health impact, and by assessing existing public health interventions being implemented across the Nation to prevent gun violence.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 3. Publication. You are hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.


BARACK OBAMA

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

 

[Oldguy]

The President has begun taking specific actions to implement his list of goals relating to guns and gun violence.

Yesterday, he released 2 memorandum to department heads, which I will post separately below.

As his specific policies are released, I will post them in this thread for discussion. My source will be the White House homepage.

You realize we all support the 2nd Amendment.

We just don't support the NRA impeding federal law enforcement.

What's the NRA got to do with this thread? It's about the President's specific actions.

 

[Oldguy]

Here's another memorandum, just issued today:



Presidential Memorandum -- Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

January 16, 2013


MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBJECT: Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

In addition to being a law enforcement challenge, gun violence is also a serious public health issue that affects thousands of individuals, families, and communities across the Nation. Each year in the United States there are approximately 30,000 firearm-related deaths, and approximately 11,000 of those deaths result from homicides. Addressing this critical issue requires a comprehensive, multifaceted approach.

Recent research suggests that, in developing such an approach, a broader public health perspective is imperative. Significant strides can be made by assessing the causes of gun violence and the successful efforts in place for preventing the misuse of firearms. Taking these steps will improve our understanding of the gun violence epidemic and will aid in the continued development of gun violence prevention strategies.

Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1. Research. The Secretary of Health and Human Services (Secretary), through the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other scientific agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services, shall conduct or sponsor research into the causes of gun violence and the ways to prevent it. The Secretary shall begin by identifying the most pressing research questions with the greatest potential public health impact, and by assessing existing public health interventions being implemented across the Nation to prevent gun violence.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 3. Publication. You are hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.


BARACK OBAMA

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

Who else is positioned to do it? And, who said there is a foregone conclusion?

 

[PredFan]

You'd like to claim the right to sell a gun to someone you know shouldn't have one? Why?

Strawman argument.

I want the right to sell a gun or buy a gun without the government interfering.

You don't have that unrestricted right and haven't for a long time. That's a well and often settled Constitutional issue. You're essentially demanding a right you've never had.

Bull shit. I have sold guns in the not too distant past and bought guns recently, unrestricted, from friends and friends of friends. No background check, no waiting period, no report to the government.

You need to educate yourself.

 

[Oldguy]

Strawman argument.

I want the right to sell a gun or buy a gun without the government interfering.

You don't have that unrestricted right and haven't for a long time. That's a well and often settled Constitutional issue. You're essentially demanding a right you've never had.

Bull shit. I have sold guns in the not too distant past and bought guns recently, unrestricted from friends and friends of friends. No background check, no waiting period, no report to the government.

You need to educate yourself.

Are you denying that the government, at any level, does not have the right to restrict gun sales? The Supreme Court disagrees.

 

[PredFan]

Here's another memorandum, just issued today:



Presidential Memorandum -- Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

January 16, 2013


MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBJECT: Engaging in Public Health Research on the Causes and Prevention of Gun Violence

In addition to being a law enforcement challenge, gun violence is also a serious public health issue that affects thousands of individuals, families, and communities across the Nation. Each year in the United States there are approximately 30,000 firearm-related deaths, and approximately 11,000 of those deaths result from homicides. Addressing this critical issue requires a comprehensive, multifaceted approach.

Recent research suggests that, in developing such an approach, a broader public health perspective is imperative. Significant strides can be made by assessing the causes of gun violence and the successful efforts in place for preventing the misuse of firearms. Taking these steps will improve our understanding of the gun violence epidemic and will aid in the continued development of gun violence prevention strategies.

Therefore, by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct the following:

Section 1. Research. The Secretary of Health and Human Services (Secretary), through the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other scientific agencies within the Department of Health and Human Services, shall conduct or sponsor research into the causes of gun violence and the ways to prevent it. The Secretary shall begin by identifying the most pressing research questions with the greatest potential public health impact, and by assessing existing public health interventions being implemented across the Nation to prevent gun violence.

Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

Sec. 3. Publication. You are hereby authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.


BARACK OBAMA

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

I didn't say it was right, I said it was the only thing that made sense. Where did you get the idea that the CDC was directed to study guns only? I don't get that from the version presented.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Presidential Memorandum -- Improving Availability of Relevant Executive Branch Records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Presidential Memorandum -- Tracing of Firearms in Connection with Criminal Investigations

Please provide links for any copy/pasted material, and then only paste the first paragraph or so of the copied material to avoid copyright violation. -Newby

Feel free to explain how either of these will actually change anything. I am 100% positive that federal law already requires federal agencies to release information to the NICS database. In fact, at present, the government takes the position that you cannot challenge your inclusion in this database even if you have not been charged with, or convicted of, a crime. I am also 100% positive that the FBI, ATF, and all the rest of the alphabet that makes up federal law enforcement already track weapons recovered in crimes, they just don't tell the owner of a stolen weapon unless they need him to testify.

It takes a special kind of idiot to cheer the government for starting to do something they already do.

It's not a case of them not already doing it. They are. It's a case of doing it better.

What's wrong with that?

How, exactly, are they going to be "doing it better?" Law enforcement already lists everyone who is prohibited from buying guns with the database, just not all the classified information that puts people on that list. They aren't going to start sharing classified data, so that is not going to get better. Law enforcement already tracks every gun recovered from a crime scene, how is Obama going to make that better?

Details, or admit you are just blowing smoke because you whore for Obama.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You'd like to claim the right to sell a gun to someone you know shouldn't have one? Why?

Strawman argument.

I want the right to sell a gun or buy a gun without the government interfering.

You don't have that unrestricted right and haven't for a long time. That's a well and often settled Constitutional issue. You're essentially demanding a right you've never had.

It is a settled legal issue, it is no longer settled constitutionally.

 

[PredFan]

You don't have that unrestricted right and haven't for a long time. That's a well and often settled Constitutional issue. You're essentially demanding a right you've never had.

Bull shit. I have sold guns in the not too distant past and bought guns recently, unrestricted from friends and friends of friends. No background check, no waiting period, no report to the government.

You need to educate yourself.

Are you denying that the government, at any level, does not have the right to restrict gun sales? The Supreme Court disagrees.

That isn't the point. The point is that I'm against that part of obama's proposals because it erodes my liberties. You asked and I answered.

 

[Oldguy]

Feel free to explain how either of these will actually change anything. I am 100% positive that federal law already requires federal agencies to release information to the NICS database. In fact, at present, the government takes the position that you cannot challenge your inclusion in this database even if you have not been charged with, or convicted of, a crime. I am also 100% positive that the FBI, ATF, and all the rest of the alphabet that makes up federal law enforcement already track weapons recovered in crimes, they just don't tell the owner of a stolen weapon unless they need him to testify.

It takes a special kind of idiot to cheer the government for starting to do something they already do.

It's not a case of them not already doing it. They are. It's a case of doing it better.

What's wrong with that?

How, exactly, are they going to be "doing it better?" Law enforcement already lists everyone who is prohibited from buying guns with the database, just not all the classified information that puts people on that list. They aren't going to start sharing classified data, so that is not going to get better. Law enforcement already tracks every gun recovered from a crime scene, how is Obama going to make that better?

Details, or admit you are just blowing smoke because you whore for Obama.

Actually, a lot of information relevant to the database is not being reported and, in some instances, legally can't be. The data is incomplete and President is looking for ways to improve its performance.

Background check system for guns deeply flawed - latimes.com

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

Who else is positioned to do it? And, who said there is a foregone conclusion?

Who else is positioned to study violent crime? Seriously? Ever here of the field of criminology? What federal agency has more criminologists, the Justice Department or the Center for Disease Control?

As for who said there is a foregone conclusion, that was me.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I've been saying since The VA Tech murders that we need to stop focussing on guns and focus on "why" as in what makes these people "go ballistic" like that. USA Today recently ran an article about the sad state of affairs in this country on mental health issues.

This is the ONLY thing in anything that the fool in the White House said that makes any kind of sense.

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

I didn't say it was right, I said it was the only thing that made sense. Where did you get the idea that the CDC was directed to study guns only? I don't get that from the version presented.

Did you miss the words "gun violence" in the subject line of the memo?

 

[PredFan]

Actually, that is the worst thing in all of his proposals. The first thing wrong with this is that the CDC studies disease, guns are not a disease. If they try to apply vector control logic to gun violence they will end up calling for a ban on guns because guns are the only common factor in all episodes of gun violence. Going into a study with a foregone conclusion is nothing more than propaganda.

I didn't say it was right, I said it was the only thing that made sense. Where did you get the idea that the CDC was directed to study guns only? I don't get that from the version presented.

Did you miss the words "gun violence" in the subject line of the memo?

No, but "gun violence" has two words in it. I came away from it thinking that the CDC was going to study what makes these people do the things they do. Now, why the CDC? I don't know except to say that obama is an idiot.