President Obama is the Problem?

[jillian]

For nearly 30 years, the policy practice of deregulating industry has destabilized our economy and produced internal economic bubbles that provided extravagant boom/bust cycles with abnormally sharp peaks and increasingly less distribution of wealth throughout our social structure, such that the Haves' have increased wealth at a massively disproportionate rate over the have Nots'. Those are the facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, Executive compensation and Golden Parachutes are up, employee salaries are down, the American Middle Class is being destroyed by the hour and American Middle Class Jobs have been packed-up and shipped off-shore. Those are facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, the High School drop-out rates have increased, College tuition costs have increased, College graduation rates have decreased and four year technical degree completions have been cut by more than half, while business related degree completions have increased by more than 275% over the exact same period. These are facts which are not in dispute.

$50 Trillion in global wealth was wiped-out as a direct result of the 2008 global economic implosion. Consumer debt in the U.S. since 2000, has increased geometrically and consumer credit default rates have more than tripled in the same time. Since the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, global fuel prices have driven commodity prices higher and the cost at the pump as well as the grocery store check-out stand were the resultant children and the USD tumbled in value both internally and externally against most major currencies around the world. These are facts not in dispute.

Both, political policy and U.S. corporate practice have brought us to this point. The most deployed political policy over the past 30 years has been that free market reign -aka- Trickle Down Economics. A simple minded economic theory that says: hands off the free market - allow the free market to regulate itself, monitor itself, stabilize itself, and in doing so, the free market will make all the right decisions for the broader economy. Survival of the most fit. Trickle Down has miserably failed our Republic. These are facts not in dispute.

Presidential hopefuls as well as political adversaries, are making the claim that President Obama, is a "failed President," because the economy is not producing the 2.1 million jobs necessary to replace the 8+ million jobs lost under the previous Administration over the prior eight years before Obama's term in office. These are facts not in dispute.


So, here is my question:

If the political and economic policy that helped to cause the 2008 global meltdown, comes from the exact same source that lays failure at the doorstep of President Obama, how is it logically possible for the current set of Presidential hopefuls to have sufficient economic high-ground necessary to provide the policy solutions needed to solve the current economic crisis?

In other words, if you created the problem, when did you magically obtain the credibility, know-how, desire and the will necessary to provide the solution to the problem you created more than eight years ago?

Furthermore, if you created the problem more than eight years ago, what qualifies you to lay blame at the doorstep of those who have attempted to solve the problem that you created, and why should the American People trust you to solve the problem that you could not solve more than eight years ago?

You know - as I sit here over the past 3 years and listen to irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated, unproven and massively hypocritical attacks on President Obama, for not cleaning-up the mess left behind by his political adversaries fast enough, I'm reminded of reminded of the little African American Slave boy who gets whipped by his Slave Master for not cleaning up the spilled Whiskey fast enough, left behind by the "Master" himself.

President Obama, has had to play the role of Janitor In Chief, for the past 3 years - cleaning up a global toxic waste dumping zone left behind by those seeking Iraqi PSA Oil contracts and Derivatives profits from destructive financial bubbles that were engineered and arranged by the very same people who have since turned their back on the President and now label him as "failed."

If that is not the very definition of twisted, then I don't know what qualifies.

- Create the regulatory environment for the mess
- Create the rules for how the mess turns into a bubble
- Create the trigger for the fall of the mess
- Execute the mess
- Get reimbursed for the mess you created by tax payers
- Sit back and lay blame for not cleaning up the mess fast enough
- Run for President and proclaim that YOU have the fix for the mess

What a sales job. And, what's even more disgusting is the fact that millions of Americans will buy it.

How reprobate have we become as American Citizens?

Can't tell you how shallow and inadequate this is -- considering it's the 97th thread this month repeating the same talking points. MOST of which ARE in dispute -- contrary to the childish assertion that they are not. To begin with consumer debt has DRAMATICALLY decreased since the 2008 implosion. People realized that THEY are severly overleveraged.

Which leads to all those "wealth gap" numbers. Not really descriptive of standard of living at all.. Manipulated and processed beyond use (kinda like Nutella). For instance, most of my Cali buds had 80% of their "wealth" in their homes. And they USED that wealth like a checking account. Need a new Mercedes? Refi -- the house.. Want to add a 2nd story to that overvalued piece of Cali crap housing? Refi -- the house.. Need to send the kids to Stanford? Refi -- the house. IN FACT -- You could live in $800K home, have 2 luxury cars in the driveway, and a kid at Stanford and YET --- your "net worth" for those famous leftist polls could easily be under $100K.

Simplistic, repetitive and shallow.. You want to contribute to solutions on a message board? Try being a little more thorough and a lot more humble...

Yup -- I just quoted myself for the benefit of Cuyo and Jillian to demonstrate how not ALL us righties attack and dodge.. That's what happens whenever WE try to engage in rational debate about these same repeated talking points..

You guys invented the dodge.. Same shit for 100s of lefty sponsored threads. No wonder some folks are getting tired of honest debate..

BTW Jillian -- there's a couple examples in my response to SHOW exactly where these arguments are wrong or weak..

I'm going out to run some errands, but I'll look when I come back. For the record, I think he's pretty on track. But I'll look. And thanks for responding.

 

[naturegirl]

0bama campaigned on fixing what was "broken". He was going to fundamentally change the US, he was going to have the most transparent administration ever. He was going to allow us 5 days to review a bill before it was signed. He was going to close Gitmo, repeal the Patriot Act, pull out of Afghanistan and make America a kinder simpler nation.

He was going to rule the world. His inexperience, his administration's inability to run the US like Chicago and his narcissism has prevented him from doing any of the things he "promised". We have the same ole, same ole with a lot more added on.........spending, spending, spending, spending. Much more that previous administrations. Now we are spending money on another war in Libya and don't forget how much the health care debacle is going to cost.

So it appears his lack of being able to even pull off one cost saving measure has doomed him - with his lies and arrogance exposed. He's a failed president because he has made things worse, a lot worse. That light at the end of the tunnel is not the other end, it's a train at full speed.

How about you tell us what he has done to help the American People??? Exactly what has he done to "fix" anything??

The AJC is quite liberal and usually leans hard left...........here's what they are saying.

When Obama accuses Republicans of standing in the way of his nearly $450 billion plan, he ignores the fact that his own party has struggled to unite behind the proposal.

When the president says Republicans haven't explained what they oppose in the plan, he skips over the fact that Republicans who control the House actually have done that in detail.

And when he calls on Congress to "pass this bill now," he slides past the point that Democrats control the Senate and were never prepared to move immediately, given other priorities. Senators are expected to vote Tuesday on opening debate on the bill, a month after the president unveiled it with a call for its immediate passage.

To be sure, Obama is not the only one engaging in rhetorical excesses. But he is the president, and as such, his constant remarks on the bill draw the most attention and scrutiny.

The disconnect between what Obama says about his jobs bill and what stands as the political reality flow from his broader aim: to rally the public behind his cause and get Congress to act, or, if not, to pin blame on Republicans.

Here, read the whole thing, it's quite lengthy and not so favorable for the Campaigner-in-Chief.

SPIN METER: Obama disconnects rhetoric, reality *| ajc.com

 

[OODA_Loop]

Economic inequality is the rally of the complacent.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Can't tell you how shallow and inadequate this is -- considering it's the 97th thread this month repeating the same talking points.

Well, maybe somebody is trying to tell you something that you've yet to understand.

MOST of which ARE in dispute -- contrary to the childish assertion that they are not. To begin with consumer debt has DRAMATICALLY decreased since the 2008 implosion. People realized that THEY are severly overleveraged.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in Bangladesh, or this thread?

Consumer debt rose from 2000 to 2008, more than at any other time in U.S. History. You really need to get your facts together. Consumer debt rose as a direct result of easy credit hitting the streets of America. And, do you know what caused that epidemic of easy credit on the streets of America? It was the Federal Reserve's Alan Greenspan's decision to kill interest rates just after President Bush 43 took office, to a level that made the USD ridiculously unfavorable around the world relative to other major currencies AND it reduces the net/net cost of funds for banks to zero.

When the banks discovered that had a near zero cost of funds, they they then dumped credit on the streets like cheaply cut cocaine - and the people became addicted to easy credit - including the United States Government.

Now, when you begin to understand the resultant impact of that over the course of eight long years, then you will begin to see the tip of the iceberg that has been hidden from your eyes for all this time - all the while, you thought you knew what was really going on.

China, funded that process, deliberately and intentionally, using the savings of its poorest Citizens to do it. Your mortgage was funded by decades of poor Chinese workers, who labored to the bone in order to scrape together $6 equivalent dollars per month in savings. The Chinese government now understands this failure and realizes how they have now placed their own citizens savings in serious jeopardy.

If you want to talk Global Economics, then let's talk Global Economics, but don't for one minute think that you are going to be able to toss a nonsequitur reply like you did above, as substantive rebuttal on the merits, without getting caught doing so.

Which leads to all those "wealth gap" numbers. Not really descriptive of standard of living at all.. Manipulated and processed beyond use (kinda like Nutella). For instance, most of my Cali buds had 80% of their "wealth" in their homes. And they USED that wealth like a checking account. Need a new Mercedes? Refi -- the house.. Want to add a 2nd story to that overvalued piece of Cali crap housing? Refi -- the house.. Need to send the kids to Stanford? Refi -- the house. IN FACT -- You could live in $800K home, have 2 luxury cars in the driveway, and a kid at Stanford and YET --- your "net worth" for those famous leftist polls could easily be under $100K.

All funded by the Chinese. All cut-off by the Chinese. And, that is precisely my point about the lies having been told that President Obama, made our economic problems worse. This is precisely the kind of lack of education that I referred to above. So, many Americans, are walking around thinking that Obama's policies have stalled an economic recovery, when nothing could be further from the truth!

It is the Banking System that has failed the American People. They got bailed out and then refused to lend anymore. That is why Mom and Pop can't get a small business loan. That is why ACME Corp., can't get a medium size business loan and a line of developmental credit. That is why you don't see the hiring happening in droves and that is why the economy still remains sluggish.

Until the Banks step-up to the plate and hold up their end of the bargain, our national economy will continue to slide along the bottom of recession, with little job growth as a direct result. And, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the leadership of President Obama.

The lies need to stop and people need to educate themselves on how our new Globalized Economy works. Because we no longer have a strong manufacturing base in the United States anymore, when China, stops funding our debt bubbles, our entire economy collapses - which is precisely what you see happening right now. Why? Because, we have shipped the vast majority of our Middle Class Manufacturing Base outside of the United States, which means that when tight economic times come upon us, we do not possess the internal revenue capacity to provide the capital nexus for a stabilized recovery!

Absolutely, NONE of which belongs on the doorstep of this current President.

Simplistic, repetitive and shallow...

You bet you have been. Maybe now you understand what the lies are all about, who caused the problem and much more importantly, WHY there are NO JOBS in the United States of America over the past 2.5 years.

All I've seen on this board is false blame being passed around to the President. All you see on the news are Republican partisan hacks, who refuse to take responsibility for allowing President Bush to blow a hole through our economy a mile wide and one thousand miles deep with off the books War Spending. And, all you ever hear about are Wall Street and Corporate darlings, blaming the President for a so-called "lack of leadership," when it was THEIR creation of Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction that triggered the explosion in 2008.

Lies, lies, lies, all of them, lies. That's why I am here on this board - to hopefully educate you!

 

[The Rabbi]

We can start with the fact that there has not been massive deregulation over the last 30 years.

When I say massive, I'm talking about the effects of deregulation - I could have stated the matter more clearly. I'm also (clearly) talking about Financial Deregulation. I mark time with Ronald Reagan, because he presided over the Savings & Loan bailouts and it was Reagan, who supported the Garn-St Germain Depository Institutions Act, which he claimed would solve the problems of the Savings & Loans. Here are Reagan's own words on the Act:

"This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions... All in all, I think we hit the jackpot."

It turns out that Ronald Reagan, was wrong about that - as we all now fully understand. Yet, when it was happening, there were zero Republicans talking to the streets as Tea Party Members, proclaiming that Ronald Reagan, was a failed President.

This is why I say the double standard hypocrisy is staggering, as pointed towards President Obama.

Further, there were certainly boom and bust cycles during and before that time. We had a severe recession in 1973-74 as well as 1982-3.

We've never had anything ever remotely resembling 2008, less 1929/32. So, I'm not 100% sure about the point being made there.

Your other points are equally misinformed and stupid.
You wont last long here.

Other points which you found so stupid, as to not rebut them. If that's the typical run and hide tactic that resides on this forum, then you are 100% correct, I won't last long here, because there won't be anyone left to debate the real issues.

I'll put the question to you again: Name the things that Obama did to inflame the Bush Administration economic implosion of 2008? Those are the issues on the table. Blaming President Obama, for not solving a problem that has no Executive Branch solution, is the very definition of foolish.

And, failing to rebut on the merits, while calling the declarations stupid, is a deliberate act of cowardice.

Let's see: Reagan left office in January of 1989. The S&L crisis didnt hit until the next year. So Reagan was no longer in office. So calling him a failed president wouldn't have been too smart.
In any case notice how the Bush Administration took care of the crisis: Created the RTC, merged banks, took over assets and had the whole thing wrapped up--including winding down the RTC--within about 24 months.
Actually the recession in 1982 was worse than the current one. But Reagan's policies made it better. Obama's have made this one worse. The 1974 recession was also very bad.

Obama prolonged the recession and made it worse by:
Launching a trillion dollar stimulus plan that failed
Having the Fed keep rates at artificially low levels and engaging in QE1 and QE2
Passing cash for clunkers and other boondoggles that wasted taxpayer money
Engaging in a regulatory fest increasing regulations in existing departments and creating new ones, like Consumer Affairs.
Foisting broad new mandates like healthcare on companies.
Hiring anti business intellectuals like Elizabeth Warren
Using his bully pulpit to talk down business and threaten tax increases.

How much more do you want? What has Obama done to make things any better? He has had 3 years to come up with a plan and he simply recycles old failed plans hoping no one notices.
Is he responsible by himself? No, Congress has to pass the appropriate legislation. But for 2 years he had a compliant Congress that would have passed anything he wanted.

Had Obama done nothing, the economy would have recovered on its own and we would be in a strong expansion now. That is the record of every other business cycle.

 

[AmericanFirst]

For nearly 30 years, the policy practice of deregulating industry has destabilized our economy and produced internal economic bubbles that provided extravagant boom/bust cycles with abnormally sharp peaks and increasingly less distribution of wealth throughout our social structure, such that the Haves' have increased wealth at a massively disproportionate rate over the have Nots'. Those are the facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, Executive compensation and Golden Parachutes are up, employee salaries are down, the American Middle Class is being destroyed by the hour and American Middle Class Jobs have been packed-up and shipped off-shore. Those are facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, the High School drop-out rates have increased, College tuition costs have increased, College graduation rates have decreased and four year technical degree completions have been cut by more than half, while business related degree completions have increased by more than 275% over the exact same period. These are facts which are not in dispute.

$50 Trillion in global wealth was wiped-out as a direct result of the 2008 global economic implosion. Consumer debt in the U.S. since 2000, has increased geometrically and consumer credit default rates have more than tripled in the same time. Since the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, global fuel prices have driven commodity prices higher and the cost at the pump as well as the grocery store check-out stand were the resultant children and the USD tumbled in value both internally and externally against most major currencies around the world. These are facts not in dispute.

Both, political policy and U.S. corporate practice have brought us to this point. The most deployed political policy over the past 30 years has been that free market reign -aka- Trickle Down Economics. A simple minded economic theory that says: hands off the free market - allow the free market to regulate itself, monitor itself, stabilize itself, and in doing so, the free market will make all the right decisions for the broader economy. Survival of the most fit. Trickle Down has miserably failed our Republic. These are facts not in dispute.

Presidential hopefuls as well as political adversaries, are making the claim that President Obama, is a "failed President," because the economy is not producing the 2.1 million jobs necessary to replace the 8+ million jobs lost under the previous Administration over the prior eight years before Obama's term in office. These are facts not in dispute.


So, here is my question:

If the political and economic policy that helped to cause the 2008 global meltdown, comes from the exact same source that lays failure at the doorstep of President Obama, how is it logically possible for the current set of Presidential hopefuls to have sufficient economic high-ground necessary to provide the policy solutions needed to solve the current economic crisis?

In other words, if you created the problem, when did you magically obtain the credibility, know-how, desire and the will necessary to provide the solution to the problem you created more than eight years ago?

Furthermore, if you created the problem more than eight years ago, what qualifies you to lay blame at the doorstep of those who have attempted to solve the problem that you created, and why should the American People trust you to solve the problem that you could not solve more than eight years ago?

You know - as I sit here over the past 3 years and listen to irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated, unproven and massively hypocritical attacks on President Obama, for not cleaning-up the mess left behind by his political adversaries fast enough, I'm reminded of reminded of the little African American Slave boy who gets whipped by his Slave Master for not cleaning up the spilled Whiskey fast enough, left behind by the "Master" himself.

President Obama, has had to play the role of Janitor In Chief, for the past 3 years - cleaning up a global toxic waste dumping zone left behind by those seeking Iraqi PSA Oil contracts and Derivatives profits from destructive financial bubbles that were engineered and arranged by the very same people who have since turned their back on the President and now label him as "failed."

If that is not the very definition of twisted, then I don't know what qualifies.

- Create the regulatory environment for the mess
- Create the rules for how the mess turns into a bubble
- Create the trigger for the fall of the mess
- Execute the mess
- Get reimbursed for the mess you created by tax payers
- Sit back and lay blame for not cleaning up the mess fast enough
- Run for President and proclaim that YOU have the fix for the mess

What a sales job. And, what's even more disgusting is the fact that millions of Americans will buy it.

How reprobate have we become as American Citizens?

Janitor-in-chief? Really Gracie? He's continued many policies he said he'd stop and add to the mess himself.

He lied to everybody just to get voted in just like they all do. Blameing the republicans does not excuse him, he owns this economy now.

 

[flacaltenn]

Can't tell you how shallow and inadequate this is -- considering it's the 97th thread this month repeating the same talking points.

Well, maybe somebody is trying to tell you something that you've yet to understand.

MOST of which ARE in dispute -- contrary to the childish assertion that they are not. To begin with consumer debt has DRAMATICALLY decreased since the 2008 implosion. People realized that THEY are severly overleveraged.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in Bangladesh, or this thread?

Consumer debt rose from 2000 to 2008, more than at any other time in U.S. History. You really need to get your facts together.

I agree. You're not gonna last long on this board.. I clearly said ..."since the 2008 implosion".. If you can't read my posts -- I don't trust your "knowledge" of everything else.

Consumer debt rose as a direct result of easy credit hitting the streets of America. And, do you know what caused that epidemic of easy credit on the streets of America? It was the Federal Reserve's Alan Greenspan's decision to kill interest rates just after President Bush 43 took office, to a level that made the USD ridiculously unfavorable around the world relative to other major currencies AND it reduces the net/net cost of funds for banks to zero.

When the banks discovered that had a near zero cost of funds, they they then dumped credit on the streets like cheaply cut cocaine - and the people became addicted to easy credit - including the United States Government.

Now, when you begin to understand the resultant impact of that over the course of eight long years, then you will begin to see the tip of the iceberg that has been hidden from your eyes for all this time - all the while, you thought you knew what was really going on.

China, funded that process, deliberately and intentionally, using the savings of its poorest Citizens to do it. Your mortgage was funded by decades of poor Chinese workers, who labored to the bone in order to scrape together $6 equivalent dollars per month in savings. The Chinese government now understands this failure and realizes how they have now placed their own citizens savings in serious jeopardy.

If you want to talk Global Economics, then let's talk Global Economics, but don't for one minute think that you are going to be able to toss a nonsequitur reply like you did above, as substantive rebuttal on the merits, without getting caught doing so.

What the FUck? Who the hell do you think annointed you to spout the obvious? Chinese buying GOVT debt has little to do with a generation of consumers who decided to leverage their existence. Except for our conning of the Chinese to take less than true value for their investment. Just don't blame China for all those economically incompetent Californians who decided to cannibalize the equity in their homes to live far above their means. That's largely dishonest. I NEVER was violated by the PRC. In fact, I bailed California with all of my equity intact.

Which leads to all those "wealth gap" numbers. Not really descriptive of standard of living at all.. Manipulated and processed beyond use (kinda like Nutella). For instance, most of my Cali buds had 80% of their "wealth" in their homes. And they USED that wealth like a checking account. Need a new Mercedes? Refi -- the house.. Want to add a 2nd story to that overvalued piece of Cali crap housing? Refi -- the house.. Need to send the kids to Stanford? Refi -- the house. IN FACT -- You could live in $800K home, have 2 luxury cars in the driveway, and a kid at Stanford and YET --- your "net worth" for those famous leftist polls could easily be under $100K.

All funded by the Chinese. All cut-off by the Chinese. And, that is precisely my point about the lies having been told that President Obama, made our economic problems worse. This is precisely the kind of lack of education that I referred to above. So, many Americans, are walking around thinking that Obama's policies have stalled an economic recovery, when nothing could be further from the truth!

Well done.. It's been mostly faulty GOVT policies that lead to our current economic crisis. In fact, the govt threw a couple EXTRA propane tanks on the fire when they handed out the crack coke of "First Time Buyer Tax Credits", low interest rates, and pushed Freddy/Fannie to buy up and bundle all that junk. I'm not a partisian. so I make no distinctions about the incompetence of this meddling other than Obama talked a huge game and continued the same ole shit. Blaming CHINA for overleveraged Americans? That's a desparate reach.


It is the Banking System that has failed the American People. They got bailed out and then refused to lend anymore. That is why Mom and Pop can't get a small business loan. That is why ACME Corp., can't get a medium size business loan and a line of developmental credit. That is why you don't see the hiring happening in droves and that is why the economy still remains sluggish.

Guess you missed the part where the banks were corralled into a conference room and intimidated into TAKING that bailout. Most wanted no part of the Tarp funds. In fact -- when they tried to pay it back the Obama stalled them in order to continue micro-managing their internal affairs.

Until the Banks step-up to the plate and hold up their end of the bargain, our national economy will continue to slide along the bottom of recession, with little job growth as a direct result. And, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the leadership of President Obama.

The lies need to stop and people need to educate themselves on how our new Globalized Economy works. Because we no longer have a strong manufacturing base in the United States anymore, when China, stops funding our debt bubbles, our entire economy collapses - which is precisely what you see happening right now. Why? Because, we have shipped the vast majority of our Middle Class Manufacturing Base outside of the United States, which means that when tight economic times come upon us, we do not possess the internal revenue capacity to provide the capital nexus for a stabilized recovery!

Absolutely, NONE of which belongs on the doorstep of this current President.

The solution is not to bait the public with class warfare and egg on the devisive tactics of the Progressive left as Obama has done. It's counter productive and dangerous. He can't make it thru a speech without 24 references to Millionaires/Billionaires. Nary a WORD about becoming economically relevant again. The SOLUTIONS are to move job skills to Science and Engineering. Encourage NEW industries in robotics, artificial intelligience, biotech, materials, and 21st century manufacturing.
The kind of control and regulation that B.O. advocates FAVORS HUGE moldy multi-nationals. Just like his earpiece Jeff Immelt is telling him.. What is NEEDED is to make it easier for capital to create NEW competition to knock off the GEs and ATTs. Won't come from a dedicated leftist interested only in hobbling the economy. What's the leftist mantra? "A high GDP is unsustainable". Well -- you got the results you wanted.

Simplistic, repetitive and shallow...

You bet you have been. Maybe now you understand what the lies are all about, who caused the problem and much more importantly, WHY there are NO JOBS in the United States of America over the past 2.5 years.

All I've seen on this board is false blame being passed around to the President. All you see on the news are Republican partisan hacks, who refuse to take responsibility for allowing President Bush to blow a hole through our economy a mile wide and one thousand miles deep with off the books War Spending. And, all you ever hear about are Wall Street and Corporate darlings, blaming the President for a so-called "lack of leadership," when it was THEIR creation of Financial Weapons of Mass Destruction that triggered the explosion in 2008.

Lies, lies, lies, all of them, lies. That's why I am here on this board - to hopefully educate you!

We're so glad you're here. Let's take apart all those misconceptions you're harboring one by one. NOT with a repetition of 90 previous threads that are indistuinguishable from your "BRILLIANCE" that you are bringing.. We've seen it. Cut the crap and put ONE issue at a time on the table..

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For nearly 30 years, the policy practice of deregulating industry has destabilized our economy and produced internal economic bubbles that provided extravagant boom/bust cycles with abnormally sharp peaks and increasingly less distribution of wealth throughout our social structure, such that the Haves' have increased wealth at a massively disproportionate rate over the have Nots'. Those are the facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, Executive compensation and Golden Parachutes are up, employee salaries are down, the American Middle Class is being destroyed by the hour and American Middle Class Jobs have been packed-up and shipped off-shore. Those are facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, the High School drop-out rates have increased, College tuition costs have increased, College graduation rates have decreased and four year technical degree completions have been cut by more than half, while business related degree completions have increased by more than 275% over the exact same period. These are facts which are not in dispute.

$50 Trillion in global wealth was wiped-out as a direct result of the 2008 global economic implosion. Consumer debt in the U.S. since 2000, has increased geometrically and consumer credit default rates have more than tripled in the same time. Since the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, global fuel prices have driven commodity prices higher and the cost at the pump as well as the grocery store check-out stand were the resultant children and the USD tumbled in value both internally and externally against most major currencies around the world. These are facts not in dispute.

Both, political policy and U.S. corporate practice have brought us to this point. The most deployed political policy over the past 30 years has been that free market reign -aka- Trickle Down Economics. A simple minded economic theory that says: hands off the free market - allow the free market to regulate itself, monitor itself, stabilize itself, and in doing so, the free market will make all the right decisions for the broader economy. Survival of the most fit. Trickle Down has miserably failed our Republic. These are facts not in dispute.

Presidential hopefuls as well as political adversaries, are making the claim that President Obama, is a "failed President," because the economy is not producing the 2.1 million jobs necessary to replace the 8+ million jobs lost under the previous Administration over the prior eight years before Obama's term in office. These are facts not in dispute.


So, here is my question:

If the political and economic policy that helped to cause the 2008 global meltdown, comes from the exact same source that lays failure at the doorstep of President Obama, how is it logically possible for the current set of Presidential hopefuls to have sufficient economic high-ground necessary to provide the policy solutions needed to solve the current economic crisis?

In other words, if you created the problem, when did you magically obtain the credibility, know-how, desire and the will necessary to provide the solution to the problem you created more than eight years ago?

Furthermore, if you created the problem more than eight years ago, what qualifies you to lay blame at the doorstep of those who have attempted to solve the problem that you created, and why should the American People trust you to solve the problem that you could not solve more than eight years ago?

You know - as I sit here over the past 3 years and listen to irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated, unproven and massively hypocritical attacks on President Obama, for not cleaning-up the mess left behind by his political adversaries fast enough, I'm reminded of reminded of the little African American Slave boy who gets whipped by his Slave Master for not cleaning up the spilled Whiskey fast enough, left behind by the "Master" himself.

President Obama, has had to play the role of Janitor In Chief, for the past 3 years - cleaning up a global toxic waste dumping zone left behind by those seeking Iraqi PSA Oil contracts and Derivatives profits from destructive financial bubbles that were engineered and arranged by the very same people who have since turned their back on the President and now label him as "failed."

If that is not the very definition of twisted, then I don't know what qualifies.

- Create the regulatory environment for the mess
- Create the rules for how the mess turns into a bubble
- Create the trigger for the fall of the mess
- Execute the mess
- Get reimbursed for the mess you created by tax payers
- Sit back and lay blame for not cleaning up the mess fast enough
- Run for President and proclaim that YOU have the fix for the mess

What a sales job. And, what's even more disgusting is the fact that millions of Americans will buy it.

How reprobate have we become as American Citizens?

Wow, how stupid are you?

No one is as stupid as you. You're such a morbidly fucking retard. I feel sad for you. Being the worst in every class as a child. And now the worst on every message board as a brain dead adult. Pitiful. Just Pitiful.

Yes, the OP is Rdean Stupid

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Brought the UE rate from a recession high of 6.5% to a low of 4.5%. U.S. credit was never downgraded. Workforce participation was not an all time low. Created large number of jobs. Did not experience recession from end of 2001 to end of 2008. Dow at its highest point ever Oct 2007.
Remind me what Democrats have done?

You can't be serious, can you?

The BOE rate decisions had nothing (and I mean nothing) whatsoever, to do with George W. Bush. I mean, seriously - what are you thinking about when you make such Red Herring Nonsequitur comments like this? What you just typed, makes no sense at all. Total gibberish. There is no nexus, whatsoever.

What you failed miserably to mention is that it was under Bush 43, where the FOMC lowered U.S. rates too fast and too much over too short a period of time. International Currency Markets follow global interest rates. There is a positive corollary relationship between interest rates and currencies. When rates go down, the currency of that country typically follows, for the major economies of the world.

On November 7th, 2000 (the day of the election of George W. Bush), there was an immediate sell-off in the EURUSD down to a low of $0.8366. On November 27th, 2000, the USD began to tank against the EUR and has never looked back in more than 11 years. The same holds true for the USD against the GBP, CHF and the other major competitive currencies around the world. This was a direct result of the global acknowledgement of the likelihood of reduced dollar strength going forward - which is precisely what happened.

The S&P downgrade happened as a direct causality of Republican partisan politics in the Congress. Standard & Poors, in its official statement to the public, cited the gridlock in Congress, not solely the current economic problems, as the reason why it thought the U.S. Government stood a higher probability for defaulting on its debt obligations.

Workforce participation is a direct result of companies that hire. Companies hire when they have a need to fulfill anticipated growth. Growth cannot come from an economy that has been plunged into near depression by a total lack of domestic agenda focus, wars without end and a failure to properly place regulatory controls on an industry that is determined to put profits ahead of morals. When you trash the economy that way, and when you ship American Middle Class Jobs out of the country in droves for nearly 28 years in the background, you can expect to end up paying that piper, sooner or later - regardless of who who sits in the White House.

Furthermore, neither Reagan, Bush 41 or Bush 43, created a "large number of jobs." This kind of purposeful make-believe storytelling, is one of the principle reasons why we can't seem to get beyond politics as usual. Unemployment soared under Reagan and Bush 41. Under Bush 43, nearly 8 million jobs were lost in the economy and the worst economy times since 1929/32 took hold. Real wages went down for the working class, while Executive salaries went through the roof - those are the facts. Executive bonuses were paid out to the tune of hundreds of billions o dollars between 1980 and 2008, while more Middle Class American workers slid deeper into the poverty ranks, below $22,000 per year in annual income.

And, regarding the DOW hitting its highest price in 2007 - that was all fueled by the Enterprise Technology boom under President Bill Clinton, after the several job losses experienced under President Bush 41. Later, they described it as the Tech Bubble, and it was not such a cute thing at that point.

Again, I'm still sitting here waiting for someone to post hard core facts as to how this President has made our economy worse and nobody seems to be able to meet that challenge. That's very interesting given all the talk on the street about how much this President's policies have cost American Jobs.

I'm still waiting...

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Cessna::

So, again - please delineate where the President exacerbated the current economic problem?

Be glad to -- as soon as you respond to my previous post..

Done - thanks.

 

[tinydancer]

For nearly 30 years, the policy practice of deregulating industry has destabilized our economy and produced internal economic bubbles that provided extravagant boom/bust cycles with abnormally sharp peaks and increasingly less distribution of wealth throughout our social structure, such that the Haves' have increased wealth at a massively disproportionate rate over the have Nots'. Those are the facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, Executive compensation and Golden Parachutes are up, employee salaries are down, the American Middle Class is being destroyed by the hour and American Middle Class Jobs have been packed-up and shipped off-shore. Those are facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, the High School drop-out rates have increased, College tuition costs have increased, College graduation rates have decreased and four year technical degree completions have been cut by more than half, while business related degree completions have increased by more than 275% over the exact same period. These are facts which are not in dispute.

$50 Trillion in global wealth was wiped-out as a direct result of the 2008 global economic implosion. Consumer debt in the U.S. since 2000, has increased geometrically and consumer credit default rates have more than tripled in the same time. Since the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, global fuel prices have driven commodity prices higher and the cost at the pump as well as the grocery store check-out stand were the resultant children and the USD tumbled in value both internally and externally against most major currencies around the world. These are facts not in dispute.

Both, political policy and U.S. corporate practice have brought us to this point. The most deployed political policy over the past 30 years has been that free market reign -aka- Trickle Down Economics. A simple minded economic theory that says: hands off the free market - allow the free market to regulate itself, monitor itself, stabilize itself, and in doing so, the free market will make all the right decisions for the broader economy. Survival of the most fit. Trickle Down has miserably failed our Republic. These are facts not in dispute.

Presidential hopefuls as well as political adversaries, are making the claim that President Obama, is a "failed President," because the economy is not producing the 2.1 million jobs necessary to replace the 8+ million jobs lost under the previous Administration over the prior eight years before Obama's term in office. These are facts not in dispute.


So, here is my question:

If the political and economic policy that helped to cause the 2008 global meltdown, comes from the exact same source that lays failure at the doorstep of President Obama, how is it logically possible for the current set of Presidential hopefuls to have sufficient economic high-ground necessary to provide the policy solutions needed to solve the current economic crisis?

In other words, if you created the problem, when did you magically obtain the credibility, know-how, desire and the will necessary to provide the solution to the problem you created more than eight years ago?

Furthermore, if you created the problem more than eight years ago, what qualifies you to lay blame at the doorstep of those who have attempted to solve the problem that you created, and why should the American People trust you to solve the problem that you could not solve more than eight years ago?

You know - as I sit here over the past 3 years and listen to irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated, unproven and massively hypocritical attacks on President Obama, for not cleaning-up the mess left behind by his political adversaries fast enough, I'm reminded of reminded of the little African American Slave boy who gets whipped by his Slave Master for not cleaning up the spilled Whiskey fast enough, left behind by the "Master" himself.

President Obama, has had to play the role of Janitor In Chief, for the past 3 years - cleaning up a global toxic waste dumping zone left behind by those seeking Iraqi PSA Oil contracts and Derivatives profits from destructive financial bubbles that were engineered and arranged by the very same people who have since turned their back on the President and now label him as "failed."

If that is not the very definition of twisted, then I don't know what qualifies.

- Create the regulatory environment for the mess
- Create the rules for how the mess turns into a bubble
- Create the trigger for the fall of the mess
- Execute the mess
- Get reimbursed for the mess you created by tax payers
- Sit back and lay blame for not cleaning up the mess fast enough
- Run for President and proclaim that YOU have the fix for the mess

What a sales job. And, what's even more disgusting is the fact that millions of Americans will buy it.

How reprobate have we become as American Citizens?

Wow, how stupid are you?

No one is as stupid as you. You're such a morbidly fucking retard. I feel sad for you. Being the worst in every class as a child. And now the worst on every message board as a brain dead adult. Pitiful. Just Pitiful.

omg. you really are like ray milland in frogs. holy shit you are bat shit crazy!

 

[The Rabbi]

Brought the UE rate from a recession high of 6.5% to a low of 4.5%. U.S. credit was never downgraded. Workforce participation was not an all time low. Created large number of jobs. Did not experience recession from end of 2001 to end of 2008. Dow at its highest point ever Oct 2007.
Remind me what Democrats have done?

You can't be serious, can you?

The BOE rate decisions had nothing (and I mean nothing) whatsoever, to do with George W. Bush. I mean, seriously - what are you thinking about when you make such Red Herring Nonsequitur comments like this? What you just typed, makes no sense at all. Total gibberish. There is no nexus, whatsoever.

What you failed miserably to mention is that it was under Bush 43, where the FOMC lowered U.S. rates too fast and too much over too short a period of time. International Currency Markets follow global interest rates. There is a positive corollary relationship between interest rates and currencies. When rates go down, the currency of that country typically follows, for the major economies of the world.

On November 7th, 2000 (the day of the election of George W. Bush), there was an immediate sell-off in the EURUSD down to a low of $0.8366. On November 27th, 2000, the USD began to tank against the EUR and has never looked back in more than 11 years. The same holds true for the USD against the GBP, CHF and the other major competitive currencies around the world. This was a direct result of the global acknowledgement of the likelihood of reduced dollar strength going forward - which is precisely what happened.

The S&P downgrade happened as a direct causality of Republican partisan politics in the Congress. Standard & Poors, in its official statement to the public, cited the gridlock in Congress, not solely the current economic problems, as the reason why it thought the U.S. Government stood a higher probability for defaulting on its debt obligations.

Workforce participation is a direct result of companies that hire. Companies hire when they have a need to fulfill anticipated growth. Growth cannot come from an economy that has been plunged into near depression by a total lack of domestic agenda focus, wars without end and a failure to properly place regulatory controls on an industry that is determined to put profits ahead of morals. When you trash the economy that way, and when you ship American Middle Class Jobs out of the country in droves for nearly 28 years in the background, you can expect to end up paying that piper, sooner or later - regardless of who who sits in the White House.

Furthermore, neither Reagan, Bush 41 or Bush 43, created a "large number of jobs." This kind of purposeful make-believe storytelling, is one of the principle reasons why we can't seem to get beyond politics as usual. Unemployment soared under Reagan and Bush 41. Under Bush 43, nearly 8 million jobs were lost in the economy and the worst economy times since 1929/32 took hold. Real wages went down for the working class, while Executive salaries went through the roof - those are the facts. Executive bonuses were paid out to the tune of hundreds of billions o dollars between 1980 and 2008, while more Middle Class American workers slid deeper into the poverty ranks, below $22,000 per year in annual income.

And, regarding the DOW hitting its highest price in 2007 - that was all fueled by the Enterprise Technology boom under President Bill Clinton, after the several job losses experienced under President Bush 41. Later, they described it as the Tech Bubble, and it was not such a cute thing at that point.

Again, I'm still sitting here waiting for someone to post hard core facts as to how this President has made our economy worse and nobody seems to be able to meet that challenge. That's very interesting given all the talk on the street about how much this President's policies have cost American Jobs.

I'm still waiting...

So in other words you're goiing to bring up a bunch of irrelevant nonsense and claim that is what I am doing to so you think you won.
You lose. Go on iggy where you belong.

 

[flacaltenn]

Cessna:

Now that the introductions and welcomes are out of the way.....

Here's why Obama is failing..

1) He fails to address the fundamental realities of our shift to a service economy wherein the "old school" medicine of "stimuli" and other voodoo work much differently now than during FDR. Economics models are stuck in the 19th/20th century..

2) He fails to address a SOLUTION to balancing our economy with a revigorated manufacturing/technical base that will provide MORE jobs/ capitalbuck than a service economy.

3) He is totally vested in the false impression of the GOVT as a weapon against the free market. Seizing every opportunity to make that point clear. THere's hardly a profession that he hasn't denigrated lately and repeatedly.

4) The Pelosi/Reid/Obama gang has dumped HUGE smoke bombs on clarity for business. Haven't actually produced a real budget in 2 years. Haven't clarified the contents of Dodd-Frank which is gonna continue to get written probably til we're gray. Haven't developed a coherent workable energy policy based on the failed "GREEN jobs" meme. MUCH too much emphasis on that voodoo -- instead of on REAL Science/Technology based 21st century jobs.

5) Have created an increasing advantage for large corporations over "venture capital funded New" corporations. THe barriers are higher and endless.

6) Not following thru with resolving trade policy with China, the multitudes of wars, and foreign policy which is now virtually indistinguishable from his predecessor.

Largely -- like you --- he's attacked, denigrated and belittled anything to do with free market economics. No wonder you think he's wonderful..

There's more -- but I've got a job to do..

 

[The Rabbi]

It doesn't matter. Anyone who can seriously say that the Reagan and Bush economies did not create jobs is simply incapable of rational debate. He will excuse, evade and attack. Lost cause, that one.

 

[tinydancer]

Cessna:

Now that the introductions and welcomes are out of the way.....

Here's why Obama is failing..

1) He fails to address the fundamental realities of our shift to a service economy wherein the "old school" medicine of "stimuli" and other voodoo work much differently now than during FDR. Economics models are stuck in the 19th/20th century..

2) He fails to address a SOLUTION to balancing our economy with a revigorated manufacturing/technical base that will provide MORE jobs/ capitalbuck than a service economy.

3) He is totally vested in the false impression of the GOVT as a weapon against the free market. Seizing every opportunity to make that point clear. THere's hardly a profession that he hasn't denigrated lately and repeatedly.

4) The Pelosi/Reid/Obama gang has dumped HUGE smoke bombs on clarity for business. Haven't actually produced a real budget in 2 years. Haven't clarified the contents of Dodd-Frank which is gonna continue to get written probably til we're gray. Haven't developed a coherent workable energy policy based on the failed "GREEN jobs" meme. MUCH too much emphasis on that voodoo -- instead of on REAL Science/Technology based 21st century jobs.

5) Have created an increasing advantage for large corporations over "venture capital funded New" corporations. THe barriers are higher and endless.

6) Not following thru with resolving trade policy with China, the multitudes of wars, and foreign policy which is now virtually indistinguishable from his predecessor.

Largely -- like you --- he's attacked, denigrated and belittled anything to do with free market economics. No wonder you think he's wonderful..

There's more -- but I've got a job to do..

Milli Vanelli

 

[tinydancer]

I think what disturbs me the most. And I spent years in Tennessee, was the number of people who would tell me they were "born Democrat". Nothing short of strange.

Like this mindless walk over a bridge to jump from.

One day, I'd love for a dem to explain this to me.

 

[flacaltenn]

I think what disturbs me the most. And I spent years in Tennessee, was the number of people who would tell me they were "born Democrat". Nothing short of strange.

Like this mindless walk over a bridge to jump from.

One day, I'd love for a dem to explain this to me.

They either are old enough to idolize the fantasy of FDR..

Or they think J.F. Kennedy when they think Democrat.

Or their union allegiance is stronger than their intellectual curiousity.

Or they've been to college and are hopelessly brain-washed.

I WISH JFK was still the Demo model.. Heck I miss the ole Hillbilly WhoreHopper from Arkansas at this point..

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What have Republicans done since 2000, when they controlled the White House, the Senate and the House, to demonstrate to the American People that they are qualified to claim moral high ground on domestic policy with respect to Economics?

I don’t know about a ‘moral high ground’ but they’re experts at crashing the economy, I’ll give them that.

Exactly, how did President Obama, spill more milk on the floor?

Or, how can you make a disaster out of a disaster?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in Bangladesh, or this thread?

The non sequitur is a classic conservative tactic of deflection employed when he is losing the argument.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

0bama campaigned on fixing what was "broken". He was going to fundamentally change the US, he was going to have the most transparent administration ever. He was going to allow us 5 days to review a bill before it was signed. He was going to close Gitmo, repeal the Patriot Act, pull out of Afghanistan and make America a kinder simpler nation.

Amazing. My posts get called superficial and shallow, yet this is what passes as rebuttal?

1) You seem to forget that when Obama was campaigning for more than 2 years, the 2008 economic implosion had not yet been triggered. When the housing defaults started pouring in and it became official that there was a definite recession (at the very least) immediately on the horizon, both Obama and McCain, scrambled to alter their campaign message. Indeed, they had to, in order to deal with the current economic crisis.

Candidate Obama, AND Candidate McCain, immediately began to pushed aside some of their campaign rhetoric and began spending an inordinate amount of time trying to understand the current crisis that was unfolding in real-time AND trying to fashion a new message that would resonate with the American People. This is where the Men got separated from the Boys, because it was Candidate McCain, who stated that the "fundamentals of the economy are strong," while Candidate Obama, stood before the American People and told them that the economy was broken, and more focus had to be placed on the immediate concern which at the time was housing foreclosures.

Candidate Obama, was the man who saw what needed to be done and did it. Both as Candidate and as President, he established an economic team to derive a strategy to help deal with foreclosures - which is precisely what they did and in the process, helped to save *some* homes from going into foreclosure - though the lack of jobs still make foreclosures a structural economic problem to this day.

Most of President Obama's domestic agenda got put on hold, as a direct result of having to spend time, coming up with a way to prevent the country from entering a Greater Depression - which is precisely what he and his Administration accomplished. Most economic forecasters worth their weight in salt, all agree that had the President not acted when he did with stimulus and foreclosure abatement, that the U.S. economy would have almost certainly entered a Depression.

Additional and immediate attention had to be given to TARP II and TARP I, needed to be modified and outright repaired in some areas of its former deployment. Those things took up massive amounts of the President's time, effort and energy - not to mention the time, effort and energy that any new President would have to expend, just to establish a brand new Cabinet. Those are the facts about recent history.

2) Gitmo:

You've really got to find out what's going on, here. He signed a EO-13492, only two days after his inauguration to fulfill a campaign promise. His Administration is responsible for lowering the recidivism rates of those released from Gitmo, by directly modifying the release program protocols that were more lax under Bush 43. Gitmo, is not open today because of President Obama's failure to deliver on a pledge.

Gitmo, remains open today expressly because of the lawsuits put forth by those in direct opposition to EO-13492 and those who want to keep Gitmo open, purely for partisan political reasons. So, they have used the courts (just like with Healthcare) to stall President Obama's agenda and so they can sit back and then claim that he failed to deliver on a campaign promise. Those are the facts on Gitmo.

3) Afghanistan and Pakistan:

This is one of the biggest lies being told about Obama's foreign policy promises. President Obama, is doing precisely what he promised he would do as Candidate Obama. He specifically stated that he would bring the war in Afghanistan to a "responsible close," if and when the Taliban had been neutralized and no longer a threat to the Afghan Government and its people. He specially stated more times than I can remember, that not only would he remain in Afghanistan, but that he would "take the fight to either AQ of TB" when and where necessary. He specifically stated that, if the United States obtained actionable intelligence on Osama Bin Laden, and the Pakistan Government could not or would not take action, then he would extend the military effort into Pakistan on a limited basis for the express purpose of killing or capturing OBL - which is precisely what he did.

4) The Patriot Act:

I 100% agree with you! This Act needs to go and it needs to go right now. It should have never been enacted and/or supported by any President and/or any Congress of the United States of America - period.

I am NOT in favor of the Patriot Act. I have read the Patriot Act. I know what's in the relevant portions of the Patriot Act. It violates both 5th and 14th amendment rights of the Citizen and I am in no way in favor of that.

He was going to rule the world. His inexperience, his administration's inability to run the US like Chicago and his narcissism has prevented him from doing any of the things he "promised".

I've read the remainder of your post and found it to be all at once hyperbole.

I have address your core statements directly and forthrightly. I have both rebutted and corrected misstatements that you have made with respect to what Candidate and President Obama, said to the American People.

Your response is another example of the double standard bias towards this President. Your failure to mention to shift in both campaigns due to the 2008 economic crisis and the need for both candidates to trim their message queues. You failure to understand what's going on with respect to Gitmo and why it remains open to day, even after an Executive Order ordering its closure. Your completely misunderstanding of the President's policy with respect too both Afghanistan and Pakistan, was glaring.


5) Transparency:

Lastly, the false statement about the failure to provide greater transparency is easily understood when you go visit: Recovery.gov - Tracking the Money.

When you make statements that the President has not worked to provide Citizens with more transparency, you obviously did not take not of: Transparency and Open Government | The White House.

On that last website, it reads: "American Jobs Act.... READ THE BILL." Not my words - those are the words take directly from the website itself.

 

[The Rabbi]

What have Republicans done since 2000, when they controlled the White House, the Senate and the House, to demonstrate to the American People that they are qualified to claim moral high ground on domestic policy with respect to Economics?

I don’t know about a ‘moral high ground’ but they’re experts at crashing the economy, I’ll give them that.

Exactly, how did President Obama, spill more milk on the floor?

Or, how can you make a disaster out of a disaster?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in Bangladesh, or this thread?

The non sequitur is a classic conservative tactic of deflection employed when he is losing the argument.

Really? The economy crashed as a result of Bill Clinton's policies and Bush got the country moving again within 18 months. Carter crashed the economy and Reagan got it moving again in 24 months.
Obama inherited a recession reaching rock bottom as he took the oath and in 36 months has managed to produce the weakest recovery on record, the highest sustained unemployment post WW2, the first downgrade of US sovereign debt, the highest poverty level in 30 years, the highest percentage of people out of work for over a year, and a bunch of other dubious firsts.
This is despite teh fact that he had a Democratic Congress who were his lapdogs.
So in 3 years Obama has utterly failed to do what Republicans have done in far less with far worse.
This is the issue, the only issue. Everything else is deflection.