President Obama is the Problem?

[CessnaCJ4]

Cessna:

That's a CJ4, by the way! (I'm just poking some fun on that one)

Here's why Obama is failing..

1) He fails to address the fundamental realities of our shift to a service economy wherein the "old school" medicine of "stimuli" and other voodoo work much differently now than during FDR. Economics models are stuck in the 19th/20th century..

Oh, my dear, dear friend. I'm sorry - but did you just say a $14 trillion "service based economy?" And, how exactly do you plan to sustain that hat trick into the 21st century and beyond?

Oh, my goodness! Did you really just say that??? I'll give you a chance to type it over, because that was a fatal strategic debate blunder if I've ever seen one.

I'm sorry - you want to sustain what exactly? Oh, I get it - you think we can sustain a $14 trillion Dental Office??? Are you serious? Come on, guy. You can do much better than - we will reclaim our economic place in the world by making not 5 billion, but 5 trillion McDonalds Hamburgers! Come on, folks! If you are going to participate in this thread, at least post something worth of a serious reply.

Obama, fails, because he refuses to recognize our new position in the world as top insurance sales region of the world??? Really? Try again, please.

2) He fails to address a SOLUTION to balancing our economy with a revigorated manufacturing/technical base that will provide MORE jobs/ capitalbuck than a service economy.

Where have you been for the past 5.3 years! This is precisely what the President talked about out on the campaign trail, and precisely what the President has been talking about ever since he came into office. I mean, come one, folks! Clean the wax out of your ears and turn off Fox News. That stuff will decay your brain, if you watch it too long.

This President, has been out there talking to people all over the country and potential trading partners around the world, about moving the U.S. economy to a new model that engages technology, expressly new energy technologies, so that we can not only manufacture the products that Americans use here at home, but so that we can also patent the technology and the processes, for the express purpose of exporting and selling it to our trading partners abroad!

He's been talking about this since long before he became President - where on earth have you been, sir?

3) He is totally vested in the false impression of the GOVT as a weapon against the free market. Seizing every opportunity to make that point clear. THere's hardly a profession that he hasn't denigrated lately and repeatedly.

Look, you will never get anywhere with distortions like this. This is called hyperbolic distortion. You call it "a weapon against the free market," when in reality the President is taking a stance with (not against) the American People, when the American People are the ones who keep having to foot all the decade long bailout packages that keep rising to the surface ever few years.

President Obama, is simply telling people that it is high time that corporate leaders who CAUSE crises, be held accountable and remain intellectually honest enough to admit their culpability and start engaging in more common sense policy that helps the nation to AVOID these catastrophes before they happen.

But, if all you do is filter out these actual statements by the President, in favor of some warmed over Rush Limbaugh, re-interpretation of what the President actually says, then you will never reach a level of understanding about what the President is actually trying to accomplish with the trust the American People placed in him on November 8th, 2008.

I caution you, to stop politicizing everything in sight! It is not health for our Democratic Republic.

4) The Pelosi/Reid/Obama gang has dumped HUGE smoke bombs on clarity for business. Haven't actually produced a real budget in 2 years. Haven't clarified the contents of Dodd-Frank which is gonna continue to get written probably til we're gray. Haven't developed a coherent workable energy policy based on the failed "GREEN jobs" meme. MUCH too much emphasis on that voodoo -- instead of on REAL Science/Technology based 21st century jobs.

Ok, so we finally found some common ground, here. Finally!

First, as a Trader - I am sick and tired of hearing the market complain about needing clarity from the White House. Look, Traders! It is NOT the President's responsibility to grow your account balances. That is YOUR duty as a Trader, Fund Manager and/or one who places their capital at risk in the markets each day.

You are supposed to be making investment and trading decisions based on either the Fundamentals of the market, or the Technicals of the market, not what Congress, or the President, may or may not say in a press conference. I'm so sick of hearing that each day of the week, that I hardly know what to do with my ears when I hear that nonsense. Your loss of capital is NOT the President's fault. You need to be aware of your market positions at ALL times and you need to simply stay out of markets that you do not understand.

When I trade the markets, I cannot lay blame for my losses on the head of the President. The buck stops with me - period. I control my accounts, I control my mouse and I control the decisions I make each and every day in the markets, not Polosi, not Reid and not Obama. Me. I'm the man when it comes to my market entry/exit decisions and no one else.

Now, with respect to the budget, I'm in total agreement. As an Independent, I think it is ridiculous that we can't get a not just a budget, but a balanced budget from this Congress and this President - for that matter, from ANY Congress and from ANY President. Not because it is good for Wall Street - Wall Street can take care of itself. But, because it is quite simply the proper way to run your business and the United States of America is the biggest business on the planet, save China, which is a serious nation on the move with a very serious economic advantage over the U.S. right now.

Third, I agree. There needs to be a LOT more clarity brought forth on Dodd/Frank. Some of the aspects of FinReg simply don't make any sense - especially some of the new regulations that deal with U.S. Citizens not being aloud to engage in certain types business relationships with foreign banks. If I feel like I want to establish a relationship with a foreign bank, and engage in specific types international transactions from U.S. soil, then I should be allowed to do with my money as I see fit, not a some politician decides for me.

At the same time, people need to take it upon themselves to go READ the legislation as it stands, so that they can be aware of what it proposes. Having said all of that, this does not mean that all of Dodd/Frank is draconian, hurtful to the economy or somehow a usurpation of the rights of the People.

If I had my way, the core tenets of Glass-Steagall would be re-enacted and retail banks would be requires to behave like retail banks, while commercial banks would be required to behave like commercial banks, and private banks would be responsible for their own losses and responsible to their trusting depositors. Derivatives would come from private banks and financial institutions designed expressly for such purposes as are related to such investments and there would be no undue counter-party risk adversely affecting the core investor, stockholders and none that would enable catastrophic systemic failure of the entire financial system.

The fact that we allowed that to happen in the past, is repulsive to common sense.

Regarding Green Jobs. The issue is not that the President failed at anything, but that you don't (cannot) rebuild an entire economy overnight, predicated on a completely different paradigm. This is again, one of those convoluted lies that constantly get told about this President's performance. Common sense should tell us that we won't be able to replace a predominantly fossil fuel based economy, with a pure green economy, over night. However, that has not stopped this President from constantly using the bully pulpit to discussion the need for transformation in the future AND his ideas on how we get there - which is precisely what I hear this President saying, whenever he talks about the future of Americas Economy and the role we should play in the world when it comes to green technologies.

Real science comes from real investment and you are not going to get the petroleum companies in this world to start investing in such technology and science, until they have no choice but to do so and right now, they have the options, which is to continue to pollute our environment with oil spills and carbon based emissions.

In the meantime, this is a place where Government can start to make a real difference by investing in such technological development, both in government and in the private sector. Government should be working closely, like in China, to help bring online new consumer based technologies that help to move our nation from our dependence on oil.

Right now, China, is developing a new kind of Nuclear power plant technology, that will revolutionize the entire Civil Nuclear Industry. They have figured out a way to produce clean nuclear energy, without the risks associated with core reactor meltdowns, even if the reactor is shut down rapidly. We don't have such technological research being conducted and supported by our government, here in the United States. So, when China, finishes with its proof of concept/pilot program, it will become the defacto leader in Civil Nuclear Energy production. That is a massive shame and a serious blight on our ability to keep up with whats going on in the world and to stay on top of the technology curve. We are about to lose Civil Nuclear - did you realize that?

5) Have created an increasing advantage for large corporations over "venture capital funded New" corporations. THe barriers are higher and endless.

Make some sense out of this by actually explaining HOW the President did that, please?

6) Not following thru with resolving trade policy with China, the multitudes of wars, and foreign policy which is now virtually indistinguishable from his predecessor.

Now virtually indistinguishable from his predecessor, is another hyperbolic instantiation of a lie told by the Right. You cannot and should not pack-up your military from a war zone and go home. That's dangerous and un-supportive of the Troops still on the ground. We literally built a new city in Iraq. You don't tear that down in a matter of days, or weeks, yet this President has continued with the winding down of the war in Iraq, and official combat missions have been over for a long time now.

With respect to Afghanistan, he campaigned on taking the fight to AQ/TB in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, until the Afgan government was able to stand itself up. That was always the plan, it has not changed, regardless of how many people attempt to put words in the Presidents mouth.

Largely -- like you --- he's attacked, denigrated and belittled anything to do with free market economics. No wonder you think he's wonderful..

I guess now you know a bit more about my views on Economics and why your last comment sorely misses the point entire.

There's more -- but I've got a job to do..

Whenever you find more hyperbole, this thread will be right here.

 

[naturegirl]

Let's see, 787 Billion with interest is how much again?? That 787 Billion wasn't free money.

Oh and I remember 0bama not seeing the necessity in leaving the campaign trail when McCain went back to Washington to deal with the crisis early on. He did however go back to vote for the bail out.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

In my opinion, we have a "We The People" problem. One person does not a Republic make nor destroy.

 

[Richard-H]

For nearly 30 years, the policy practice of deregulating industry has destabilized our economy and produced internal economic bubbles that provided extravagant boom/bust cycles with abnormally sharp peaks and increasingly less distribution of wealth throughout our social structure, such that the Haves' have increased wealth at a massively disproportionate rate over the have Nots'. Those are the facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, Executive compensation and Golden Parachutes are up, employee salaries are down, the American Middle Class is being destroyed by the hour and American Middle Class Jobs have been packed-up and shipped off-shore. Those are facts which are not in dispute.

For nearly 30 years, the High School drop-out rates have increased, College tuition costs have increased, College graduation rates have decreased and four year technical degree completions have been cut by more than half, while business related degree completions have increased by more than 275% over the exact same period. These are facts which are not in dispute.

$50 Trillion in global wealth was wiped-out as a direct result of the 2008 global economic implosion. Consumer debt in the U.S. since 2000, has increased geometrically and consumer credit default rates have more than tripled in the same time. Since the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, global fuel prices have driven commodity prices higher and the cost at the pump as well as the grocery store check-out stand were the resultant children and the USD tumbled in value both internally and externally against most major currencies around the world. These are facts not in dispute.

Both, political policy and U.S. corporate practice have brought us to this point. The most deployed political policy over the past 30 years has been that free market reign -aka- Trickle Down Economics. A simple minded economic theory that says: hands off the free market - allow the free market to regulate itself, monitor itself, stabilize itself, and in doing so, the free market will make all the right decisions for the broader economy. Survival of the most fit. Trickle Down has miserably failed our Republic. These are facts not in dispute.

Presidential hopefuls as well as political adversaries, are making the claim that President Obama, is a "failed President," because the economy is not producing the 2.1 million jobs necessary to replace the 8+ million jobs lost under the previous Administration over the prior eight years before Obama's term in office. These are facts not in dispute.


So, here is my question:

If the political and economic policy that helped to cause the 2008 global meltdown, comes from the exact same source that lays failure at the doorstep of President Obama, how is it logically possible for the current set of Presidential hopefuls to have sufficient economic high-ground necessary to provide the policy solutions needed to solve the current economic crisis?

In other words, if you created the problem, when did you magically obtain the credibility, know-how, desire and the will necessary to provide the solution to the problem you created more than eight years ago?

Furthermore, if you created the problem more than eight years ago, what qualifies you to lay blame at the doorstep of those who have attempted to solve the problem that you created, and why should the American People trust you to solve the problem that you could not solve more than eight years ago?

You know - as I sit here over the past 3 years and listen to irrational, illogical, unsubstantiated, unproven and massively hypocritical attacks on President Obama, for not cleaning-up the mess left behind by his political adversaries fast enough, I'm reminded of reminded of the little African American Slave boy who gets whipped by his Slave Master for not cleaning up the spilled Whiskey fast enough, left behind by the "Master" himself.

President Obama, has had to play the role of Janitor In Chief, for the past 3 years - cleaning up a global toxic waste dumping zone left behind by those seeking Iraqi PSA Oil contracts and Derivatives profits from destructive financial bubbles that were engineered and arranged by the very same people who have since turned their back on the President and now label him as "failed."

If that is not the very definition of twisted, then I don't know what qualifies.

- Create the regulatory environment for the mess
- Create the rules for how the mess turns into a bubble
- Create the trigger for the fall of the mess
- Execute the mess
- Get reimbursed for the mess you created by tax payers
- Sit back and lay blame for not cleaning up the mess fast enough
- Run for President and proclaim that YOU have the fix for the mess

What a sales job. And, what's even more disgusting is the fact that millions of Americans will buy it.

How reprobate have we become as American Citizens?

The answer to your questions is two-fold:

1. A very large percentage of the American people are dumb as shit.

2. A very large percentage of the American People are unabashed thieves and pigs.

Simple as that.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

It doesn't matter. Anyone who can seriously say that the Reagan and Bush economies did not create jobs is simply incapable of rational debate. He will excuse, evade and attack. Lost cause, that one.

It does not matter because you can't provide rebuttal to the arguments put forth and you obviously don't dare answer the two questions on the table.

Instead, you default to putting words in the mouth of the challenger, which is sure sign of weakness in your position. Republicans do this all the time, so I am not surprised. They love to lay claim to imaginary victories - much the same way that George W. Bush, called the deck of an aircraft carrier, improperly wearing a flight suit (I guess no one bothered to tell him) while claiming: "Mission Accomplished."

Recall the first tenet of successfully getting through this thread with your dignity firmly attached: "Thou shalt remain intellectually honest at all times."

There is not a solitary thing in this thread that you or anyone else can point that I've typed, that fails that test. Not one. If you can argue otherwise, please do so, for the benefit of this thread.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

I don’t know about a ‘moral high ground’ but they’re experts at crashing the economy, I’ll give them that.

I use that, because that's how they present their arguments to the American People. They approach the American People, with a demeanor that says: "We have moral solicitude about the economy and President Obama, does not."

The speak with such moral clarity on the matter, but they lack both strategic and tactical effectiveness on dealing with the matter. Winning the "debate" while losing the economy. A classic Pyrrhic victory mentality.

The non sequitur is a classic conservative tactic of deflection employed when he is losing the argument.

To the T.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Really? The economy crashed as a result of Bill Clinton's policies and Bush got the country moving again within 18 months.

a) When, exactly, did the "economy crash" as a result of Bill Clinton's policies (be specific)?

b) Provide the economic data and/or economic indicator report names that lead-in to the coming crash, spawned by Clinton policy (please provide the previous six months data and/or economic reports you use to pinpoint the crash).

c) Provide the economic data and/or economic indicator reports names that lead-in to the Bush recovery (please provide the previous six months data and/or economic reports you use to pinpoint the recovery).

This is a policy thread. You should be able assert with full confidence and for the record, the data you use to make your claim. If you don't know what an economic indicator looks like, then I'd say you are in a lot of trouble explaining yourself.

Carter crashed the economy...

How did Carter, crash the economy? What did he do to crash the economy? Words have meaning.

...and Reagan got it moving again in 24 months.

How did Reagan, get it the economy moving again in 24 months? What policies did he implement to accomplish that task and what economic data and/or economic report(s) did you use to draw that conclusion?

Obama inherited a recession reaching rock bottom as he took the oath...

Millions of people losing their home; countless numbers of new unemployment claims on the rise; mass company lay-off notices; an IPO market virtually strangled to death; gas prices going through the rough; billions of dollars a day being spent in Iraq and Afghanistan; GDP on the decline; Tic Data on the decline; Housing starts reduced to a trickle; CPI on the rise; Manufacturing Index on the decline; Managers Purchasing Index on the decline and Consumer Confidence at near record lows, yet somehow, the economy that President Obama inherited was "bottoming out?"

Try again.

...and in 36 months has managed to produce the weakest recovery on record, the highest sustained unemployment post WW2, the first downgrade of US sovereign debt, the highest poverty level in 30 years, the highest percentage of people out of work for over a year, and a bunch of other dubious firsts.

A bunch of other dubious facts that no economist worth their weight in salt will support. Ironically, everything, you stated was true and correct. However, you neglected to mention the causality behind the dubious details, which makes your reporting of them even more dubious.

This is despite teh fact that he had a Democratic Congress who were his lapdogs.

And, the Republican Congress that Bush had when he spent the country into oblivion, were his political adversaries? Is that the point you are attempting to make? When Bush, pushes the economy and the country, including our reputation abroad, over a steep cliff, its is "OK?" Is that what you are implying? Ok, for Bush, not "OK" for Obama? I think they call that a serous double standard in judgement. Or, maybe, just a complete lapse of judgment.

So in 3 years Obama has utterly failed to do what Republicans have done in far less with far worse.

Can you prove that? What set of economic data can you point to that bolsters your claim? Aside from being one of the worst and most warped (twisted) conclusions about recent (contemporary) history, I'd say that such glaringly obvious contractions with fact, goes a long way in proving an ulterior motive in the reply itself.

No one can conclude with a straight face and a sober mind, that somehow, either Bush 41 and/or Bush 43, did with "far less and far worse" conditions.

This is the issue, the only issue. Everything else is deflection.

Yes - your post was deflection, indeed. You have not provided one single fact that you can support. You've added nothing more than ad hoc claims, plucked from air and thrown against the wall, in an attempt to see what sticks - and clearly, nothing did.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

I'm curious, how do you spin his shutting down of the oil and gas exploration and drilling in the gulf and the resulting unemployment and hardship of the gulf comunities?

That's like saying, an alcoholic will be an alcoholic regardless of the help given to him to get off the bottle - ergo - lets load him up with as many bottles as we can give him.

How about we at least get honest enough with ourselves long enough to admit that we can no longer continue the prolonged use of petroleum based fuels and that a new primary energy source is not only good for the ecology, but necessary to sustain our way of life into the 21st century and well beyond. If you can't start at that level honesty, no further explanation will do.

What would you prefer anyway? Do you suggest that we execute yet another Deep Water Horizon type oil spill? Wasn't Katrina, enough terror for the people living on the Gulf Coast? Didn't we already let them down once by delaying our emergency response to their needs after they were swept up by a hurricane? Why extend the potential probability for even more devastation being unleashed in that region? Why not give the people of the Gulf Coast a break?

More importantly, why not get on-board with doing your part in trying to help bring about the new green economy based infrastructure, that can help to employ the people of the Gulf Coast in a new architecture, predicated on things that won't destroy their livelihood, such as their deep water fishing industries?

Why not just get real?

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Cessna::

Oh Pleazze -- stop it. Before I laugh up my expensive lunch..

Gitmo, is not open today because of President Obama's failure to deliver on a pledge.
<SNIP>
Those are the facts on Gitmo.

Your self-esteem is GREATLY over-estimated..

??? I have no idea what you just typed and why. But, whatever you just typed, let me be crystal clear about one thing - Gitmo is open today because of law suits. If you don't understand that, then you simply have not been paying attention.

Furthermore, I find it abhorrent and disgusting, that Republicans would on the one hand, do everything in their power to keep Gitmo open, while one the other hand, sit in front of a television camera and blame the President for not closing Gitmo. I mean, seriously, folks. That has got to be the height of total, unbridled hypocrisy.

He signed the Executive Order. He tried to get Gitmo shut down and the detainees transferred somewhere else. Of course, part of the problem is the "somewhere else" part. Republicans fear public trials and did everything in their power to keep the lawsuits flowing, so the matter would remain an open ended book.

Gitmo, sends the wrong message to the world. It also denigrates our own integrity as a people and a nation claiming to hold dearly to the values expressed by the 14th Amendment. We violate our own Constitution, by allowing a place like Gitmo to remain open indefinitely. Gitmo, must be shut down eventually - for our own Constitutional sanity.

Get on-board with that message and you'd really be doing something worthwhile. Gitmo, makes us ALL look bad.

 

[Poli_Sigh]

If as you post this destabilization has been going on for 30 years, how is it Obama's fault? More like 30-years of Presidents are at fault. Besides nothing, especially the government, can be changed in one Presidential term and I don't care who promised it could or would.

In my estimation our downfall started long before 30 years ago, but was helped along considerably by Reagan who threw us into the World Market and supported trickle down economics.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

In fact, the boom-bust pattern of the business cycle was significantly leveled during they preceding 30 years. The 20 year period between 1985 and 2005 shows the smoothest business cycle in American history. Economic fact is virtually 180° from what the OP claimed.

The combination of ignorance and brash dishonesty from the left is startling.

This post makes no sense, because it fails to reference that portion of the OPs thread that you disagree with. You throughout a random, generic time-frame, claim that things were better during that time-frame, but never specify which portion of the OPs claim you disagree with.

You then follow that up by claiming a combination of both "ignorance and brash dishonesty," which you have clearly put on display with this kind of empty hooded post.

Get specific and then debate me. Otherwise, sit back and watch.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Are you giving my answers an extra turn on the spin machine? I notice it's taking awhile, it hard to deal with shutting down an entire industry (domestic oil and gas) and then watch gas prices go up.

Let's see here

That directly influanced UE
That directly influanced gas prices
By allowing the moritorium to continue through today through hardships (arab spring), Obama has kept the gas prices elevated.

I wonder if having to pay an extra $2 a gallon for gas effects the economy ...

Should I close this thread now?

Your pretense is a sign of weakness. Should close this thread now? Only if you don't have the intellectual staying power to remain relevant within it.

Got it? Good. Now, try replying to my rebuttal of your nonsense - if you can, please.

 

[flacaltenn]

Cessna:

That's a CJ4, by the way! (I'm just poking some fun on that one)

Here's why Obama is failing..

1) He fails to address the fundamental realities of our shift to a service economy wherein the "old school" medicine of "stimuli" and other voodoo work much differently now than during FDR. Economics models are stuck in the 19th/20th century..

Oh, my dear, dear friend. I'm sorry - but did you just say a $14 trillion "service based economy?" And, how exactly do you plan to sustain that hat trick into the 21st century and beyond?

Oh, my goodness! Did you really just say that??? I'll give you a chance to type it over, because that was a fatal strategic debate blunder if I've ever seen one.

I'm sorry - you want to sustain what exactly? Oh, I get it - you think we can sustain a $14 trillion Dental Office??? Are you serious? Come on, guy. You can do much better than - we will reclaim our economic place in the world by making not 5 billion, but 5 trillion McDonalds Hamburgers! Come on, folks! If you are going to participate in this thread, at least post something worth of a serious reply.

Obama, fails, because he refuses to recognize our new position in the world as top insurance sales region of the world??? Really? Try again, please.




Where have you been for the past 5.3 years! This is precisely what the President talked about out on the campaign trail, and precisely what the President has been talking about ever since he came into office. I mean, come one, folks! Clean the wax out of your ears and turn off Fox News. That stuff will decay your brain, if you watch it too long.

This President, has been out there talking to people all over the country and potential trading partners around the world, about moving the U.S. economy to a new model that engages technology, expressly new energy technologies, so that we can not only manufacture the products that Americans use here at home, but so that we can also patent the technology and the processes, for the express purpose of exporting and selling it to our trading partners abroad!

He's been talking about this since long before he became President - where on earth have you been, sir?





Look, you will never get anywhere with distortions like this. This is called hyperbolic distortion. You call it "a weapon against the free market," when in reality the President is taking a stance with (not against) the American People, when the American People are the ones who keep having to foot all the decade long bailout packages that keep rising to the surface ever few years.

President Obama, is simply telling people that it is high time that corporate leaders who CAUSE crises, be held accountable and remain intellectually honest enough to admit their culpability and start engaging in more common sense policy that helps the nation to AVOID these catastrophes before they happen.

But, if all you do is filter out these actual statements by the President, in favor of some warmed over Rush Limbaugh, re-interpretation of what the President actually says, then you will never reach a level of understanding about what the President is actually trying to accomplish with the trust the American People placed in him on November 8th, 2008.

I caution you, to stop politicizing everything in sight! It is not health for our Democratic Republic.



Ok, so we finally found some common ground, here. Finally!

First, as a Trader - I am sick and tired of hearing the market complain about needing clarity from the White House. Look, Traders! It is NOT the President's responsibility to grow your account balances. That is YOUR duty as a Trader, Fund Manager and/or one who places their capital at risk in the markets each day.

You are supposed to be making investment and trading decisions based on either the Fundamentals of the market, or the Technicals of the market, not what Congress, or the President, may or may not say in a press conference. I'm so sick of hearing that each day of the week, that I hardly know what to do with my ears when I hear that nonsense. Your loss of capital is NOT the President's fault. You need to be aware of your market positions at ALL times and you need to simply stay out of markets that you do not understand.

When I trade the markets, I cannot lay blame for my losses on the head of the President. The buck stops with me - period. I control my accounts, I control my mouse and I control the decisions I make each and every day in the markets, not Polosi, not Reid and not Obama. Me. I'm the man when it comes to my market entry/exit decisions and no one else.

Now, with respect to the budget, I'm in total agreement. As an Independent, I think it is ridiculous that we can't get a not just a budget, but a balanced budget from this Congress and this President - for that matter, from ANY Congress and from ANY President. Not because it is good for Wall Street - Wall Street can take care of itself. But, because it is quite simply the proper way to run your business and the United States of America is the biggest business on the planet, save China, which is a serious nation on the move with a very serious economic advantage over the U.S. right now.

Third, I agree. There needs to be a LOT more clarity brought forth on Dodd/Frank. Some of the aspects of FinReg simply don't make any sense - especially some of the new regulations that deal with U.S. Citizens not being aloud to engage in certain types business relationships with foreign banks. If I feel like I want to establish a relationship with a foreign bank, and engage in specific types international transactions from U.S. soil, then I should be allowed to do with my money as I see fit, not a some politician decides for me.

At the same time, people need to take it upon themselves to go READ the legislation as it stands, so that they can be aware of what it proposes. Having said all of that, this does not mean that all of Dodd/Frank is draconian, hurtful to the economy or somehow a usurpation of the rights of the People.

If I had my way, the core tenets of Glass-Steagall would be re-enacted and retail banks would be requires to behave like retail banks, while commercial banks would be required to behave like commercial banks, and private banks would be responsible for their own losses and responsible to their trusting depositors. Derivatives would come from private banks and financial institutions designed expressly for such purposes as are related to such investments and there would be no undue counter-party risk adversely affecting the core investor, stockholders and none that would enable catastrophic systemic failure of the entire financial system.

The fact that we allowed that to happen in the past, is repulsive to common sense.

Regarding Green Jobs. The issue is not that the President failed at anything, but that you don't (cannot) rebuild an entire economy overnight, predicated on a completely different paradigm. This is again, one of those convoluted lies that constantly get told about this President's performance. Common sense should tell us that we won't be able to replace a predominantly fossil fuel based economy, with a pure green economy, over night. However, that has not stopped this President from constantly using the bully pulpit to discussion the need for transformation in the future AND his ideas on how we get there - which is precisely what I hear this President saying, whenever he talks about the future of Americas Economy and the role we should play in the world when it comes to green technologies.

Real science comes from real investment and you are not going to get the petroleum companies in this world to start investing in such technology and science, until they have no choice but to do so and right now, they have the options, which is to continue to pollute our environment with oil spills and carbon based emissions.

In the meantime, this is a place where Government can start to make a real difference by investing in such technological development, both in government and in the private sector. Government should be working closely, like in China, to help bring online new consumer based technologies that help to move our nation from our dependence on oil.

Right now, China, is developing a new kind of Nuclear power plant technology, that will revolutionize the entire Civil Nuclear Industry. They have figured out a way to produce clean nuclear energy, without the risks associated with core reactor meltdowns, even if the reactor is shut down rapidly. We don't have such technological research being conducted and supported by our government, here in the United States. So, when China, finishes with its proof of concept/pilot program, it will become the defacto leader in Civil Nuclear Energy production. That is a massive shame and a serious blight on our ability to keep up with whats going on in the world and to stay on top of the technology curve. We are about to lose Civil Nuclear - did you realize that?




Make some sense out of this by actually explaining HOW the President did that, please?




Now virtually indistinguishable from his predecessor, is another hyperbolic instantiation of a lie told by the Right. You cannot and should not pack-up your military from a war zone and go home. That's dangerous and un-supportive of the Troops still on the ground. We literally built a new city in Iraq. You don't tear that down in a matter of days, or weeks, yet this President has continued with the winding down of the war in Iraq, and official combat missions have been over for a long time now.

With respect to Afghanistan, he campaigned on taking the fight to AQ/TB in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, until the Afgan government was able to stand itself up. That was always the plan, it has not changed, regardless of how many people attempt to put words in the Presidents mouth.

Largely -- like you --- he's attacked, denigrated and belittled anything to do with free market economics. No wonder you think he's wonderful..

I guess now you know a bit more about my views on Economics and why your last comment sorely misses the point entire.

There's more -- but I've got a job to do..

Whenever you find more hyperbole, this thread will be right here.

The way you come charging out of the gate with all your volunteered wisdom makes it appear that cocaine might be involved here. Before you even understand who you're dealing with or WHAT I've said in the 1300 posts on USMB.. As in...

All that belittlement about using obsolete models to predict how a SHIFT to a service economy would affect various kinds of economic stimulus.. I was RIDICULING the expectations that "demand stimulus" still have the same effect as they USED to. Because evidently -- all the economic advisors he's selected still think it's 1933. Because I've been preaching the dangers of a service economy for about 10 years now. And how NO LEADERSHIP towards restoring hi tech startups has been displayed or encouraged. We were ALL TOLD decades ago - that when the economy converted to flat global, that WE would have to shift skill sets. Instead we get the leftists wanting to cannibalize the carcass of what's left. And your feckless leader is on top of that because he doesn't have a clue what industry really should be doing..

Which also brings me to his selection of advisors -- starting with Tax Cheat Geitner who couldn't follow simple instructions on filing his FICA taxes even when he was given a CHECK to pay them with.. And now he's our Treas. Secy? Great judgement.. Or the drama of trapping the top bankers in a room and extorting them to sign the TARP applications when they clearly didn't want the money. Or delaying repayment requests so that Obama could keep them hooked up to the taser.

And I've not heard Obama talking about increasing the skill set of American workers. Or the fact that our science/engineering colleges are filled with foreign students instead of American kids. Or talking about making it easier for capital to CHALLENGE the huge multinationals. EVERYTHING TO DO with increased GOVT regulation favors the huge Jeff Immelts and imposes barriers to the REAL innovators and industry creators.

The Green Jobs myth is WAAAY overplayed. Dismal predictable failure since the list of "alternatives" doesn't include anything concrete. Wind is 20 minutes on --- 2 hours off. It's utilitity as well as solar is as a "peaking source" --- not by definition an "alternative". He's managed to turn this into the same cronie capitalism pissing match as every other GOVT sponsored "Great leap forward" like the "internet superhiway".. To the exclusion of developing REAL new industries in robotics, artificial intellience, biotech, nanotech, and materials. China understands that their cheap labor advantage is fleeting and that 21st manufacturing is NOT gonna get leverage on cheap labor. THEY are already looking to automation and intelligient fabrication. We better get there first.

Just like you pointed out that the nuclear industry hasn't been allowed to demonstrate 21st century technology in this country. As much as it pains me to admit. You seem to actually get that. Scary that we might actually agree on shit that matters -- instead of this inane quest you have to defend an obviously incompetent administration. However you're short-sighted on nuclear. WE have PLENTY of innovative nuclear designs to try. We just can't develop here in the USA. We can't even get the FEDS to live up to their agreement to finish Yucca Mtn.. 7/10ths of an ounce of waste per year to power a home. We can't HANDLE THAT?

Only the Obama administration could make Cash for Clunkers largely WORSE than how California did it back in the 1990s. They STOLE that idea and ruined it even more than it's fundamental flaws back then. At least in California, the result was to get REAL polluting clunkers off the road. These clowns wrecked perfectly good cars so that yahoos could buy a new pickup truck..

Clarity versus uncertainty. EVERYTHING about Pelosi/Reid/Obama has been uncertainty. No permanent tax policy. No real budgets. No meaningful energy policy, a healthcare behemoth that Pelosi said we had to pass to "see what's in it". Blank legislation that gets to be filled out at bureaucratic leisure. Go ahead, call us wimps -- but venture capital ain't moving in this country under those conditions. And I know a bit about the V.C. guys. The DEM economic team has held every major sector of this economy hostage while they bitch and moan about the 80 Billionaires in this country. Can't even get the leftists on this board to understand the diff between 39% income brackets and cap gains rates. Because their leaders LOVE to smear all those details together to make the class war propaganda work.

So we'll see how your arrogance holds up on USMB.. My guess is --- you're gonna have to actually harder than just bloviating.. Who knows -- we could actually agree on a lot of stuff. But NOT on idealogues who have no idea what America does for a living and wants to wreck the creativity and innovation required to fix this country.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

I don't know if consumer debt has dropped dramatically. there's no link for your assertions and i can't respond to you in a vacuum.

Who said anything about consumer debt dropping? Look, I'm only one guy in this thread against several of you at one time and even I can keep up with the reading, so I expect all of you to be able to do the same. You've got it wrong, so you are going to have to go back and re-read what I actually posted, because you made the mistake, not me. That ball is now in your court.

...i do, however, know that you're wrong about the wealth gap. over the last 30 years, the middle class flatlined econiomically while the top 1% exploded. we have two separate economies operating in this country.

Again, you are not reading what I actually wrote. This is another homework assignment for you. Where did I declare that the Middle Class was not having their hat handed to them at the door of Wealth Generation in this country? I specifically said, that the Middle Class was being hammered, but I also drew attention to the fact that the response given to my rebuttal, was a total nonsequitur, as injecting the so-called "Wealth Gap" into the foray, had nada to do with the price of tea in Shanksville, PA. Again, ball is in your court.

...also, you're only partially correct about re-fi's.

What???? Refi??? What the heck are you folks talking about??? Refi???

I'm sorry, but where are we talking this discussion because I have no idea what this has to do with how Republicans grew an economic brain between 2000 and 2011, sufficient to be trusted with the Executive branch of government and responsible for determining national fiscal policy, given the train wreck they engineered from 2000 through 2008.

That's what this is all about - not some Red Herring Refi hologram.

...i can't even count the number of re-fi's i did during the early to mid 2000's... home values were over-inflated. people were told by their banks and mortgage brokers that if they re-fi'd and improved the house, the value would go up even more. at that time, during the bubble, no one expected that would not remain the case.

Ok, I think I see where you are trying to take this. Gee, you are all over the place.

Look, I'm trying to explain to you that Refi or no Refi, the problem was not born of mortgage structures, but of Job Loss in America from 2000 through 2008. As a key note on the source of the funds, I including China's willingness to continue providing the liquidity that our greedy government wanted to fuel its spending binge. That "Refi" loan you keep talking about, came as a direct result of Chinese Savings used to purchase U.S. debt.

China, fueled our economic real estate bubble. But, that in no way relieves us from the responsibility of not indulging ourselves in the easy credit game. When you couple China's influx of capital into the U.S. through our treasury department, with Allen Greenspan and his destructive War On The USD by dropping rates too fast and too low, you ended up with a U.S. banking industry that saw free money on the table and no moral or ethical restraint to keep it in check. That's how somebody with barely a pulse was able to get that $700k home loan that they were only one mortgage payment away from blowing.

Understanding the mechanics of how we got into this mess, will tell you a lot about WHY we are still not out of this mess. None of it (absolutely zero) had or has anything to do with President Obama.

Our entire economy was predicated on a lie. $0.80 of every consumer dollar in principle, was fronted with $1.60 of DEBT! We cannot live like that and survive as a viable economic concern going forward. It won't work and this is what pure, under-regulated Capitalism has brought to our door-steep. It was GREED and a lust for money that killed our economy and the banks got off absolute free - none of the crooks who engineered this mess went to jail - none of them.

Now, if I have a problem with Obama, it would be for not going getting a conviction on somebody involved in the creation of Toxic Debt and the financial weapons of mass destruction that Warren Buffett, talked about. I also have a serious problem with the Obama Administration for not going after those truly responsible for the illegal wars that we've prosecuted on behalf of oil, PSA contracts and Bush family cronies.

But, most importantly, given the total lack of common sense anywhere inside the 911 Commission Report and the NIST Report, I am really unhappy with the Obama Administration for not re-opening and conducting a serious bottom-up investigation of the events of 911.

So, don't sit here and think that I'm some kind of Obama apologist - you'd be massively wrong about that. I just don't like all the ridiculous piling-on that silly people are doing with respect to this President - merely because of the color of his skin AND because he happens to be a Democrat.

I warned you that I was an Independents, Independent - to the core. I stand on my own two feat and I do not pledge allegiance to any Political Party, Political Ideology and Political Dogma. I pledge my allegiance to the American Flag and I suggest that all genuine Americans do the same.

Our way of life was radically altered as Americans on November 7th, 2000. To the core. September 11th, 2001, is our litmus test and how we ultimately solve that problem will either be the undoing of our Republic, or it will mark time for the renewing of our nation and the saving of our Democratic Republic.

You can believe this: Our Republic has changed. Whether people know it or not, accept it or not, understand it or not. We either pull our country back from the brink of destruction, or we will end as Rome ended.

Mark my words. Things are NOT what they appear to be on the surface of our nation. Transformation towards tyranny, is already well underway and it has been for the past 11 years.

I pray that this country opens its eyes, so it can see what clearly sits right underneath its nose. It is time to accept reality for what it is, as hard to deal with as that might be.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

Let's see, 787 Billion with interest is how much again?? That 787 Billion wasn't free money.

Oh and I remember 0bama not seeing the necessity in leaving the campaign trail when McCain went back to Washington to deal with the crisis early on. He did however go back to vote for the bail out.

A) Who gets paid the interest?

B) They both went back in due time - splitting hairs over who got on-board an aircraft first, is less than useful here.

 

[flacaltenn]

Cessna::

Oh Pleazze -- stop it. Before I laugh up my expensive lunch..

Gitmo, is not open today because of President Obama's failure to deliver on a pledge.
<SNIP>
Those are the facts on Gitmo.

Your self-esteem is GREATLY over-estimated..

??? I have no idea what you just typed and why. But, whatever you just typed, let me be crystal clear about one thing - Gitmo is open today because of law suits. If you don't understand that, then you simply have not been paying attention.

Furthermore, I find it abhorrent and disgusting, that Republicans would on the one hand, do everything in their power to keep Gitmo open, while one the other hand, sit in front of a television camera and blame the President for not closing Gitmo. I mean, seriously, folks. That has got to be the height of total, unbridled hypocrisy.

He signed the Executive Order. He tried to get Gitmo shut down and the detainees transferred somewhere else. Of course, part of the problem is the "somewhere else" part. Republicans fear public trials and did everything in their power to keep the lawsuits flowing, so the matter would remain an open ended book.

Gitmo, sends the wrong message to the world. It also denigrates our own integrity as a people and a nation claiming to hold dearly to the values expressed by the 14th Amendment. We violate our own Constitution, by allowing a place like Gitmo to remain open indefinitely. Gitmo, must be shut down eventually - for our own Constitutional sanity.

Get on-board with that message and you'd really be doing something worthwhile. Gitmo, makes us ALL look bad.

Wasn't just lawsuits. It was lawsuits to block bringing Al Queada terrorists into NYC for trial or housing them in Illinois.. Made him and Holder like completely naive when even NY legislators opposed having a K.S. Mohammed circus in NYC. Amatuers make promises like that before they are briefed into the real issues and problems. It IS amatuer hour for this country..

There WAS NO VIABLE PLAN.. And to quote that brilliant analyst CessnaCX4 --

THOSE are the facts on Gitmo... Good night and God Bless..

 

[Avatar4321]

Nope. Obama is just the latest symptom.

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't know if consumer debt has dropped dramatically. there's no link for your assertions and i can't respond to you in a vacuum.

Who said anything about consumer debt dropping? Look, I'm only one guy in this thread against several of you at one time and even I can keep up with the reading, so I expect all of you to be able to do the same. You've got it wrong, so you are going to have to go back and re-read what I actually posted, because you made the mistake, not me. That ball is now in your court.

...i do, however, know that you're wrong about the wealth gap. over the last 30 years, the middle class flatlined econiomically while the top 1% exploded. we have two separate economies operating in this country.

Again, you are not reading what I actually wrote. This is another homework assignment for you. Where did I declare that the Middle Class was not having their hat handed to them at the door of Wealth Generation in this country? I specifically said, that the Middle Class was being hammered, but I also drew attention to the fact that the response given to my rebuttal, was a total nonsequitur, as injecting the so-called "Wealth Gap" into the foray, had nada to do with the price of tea in Shanksville, PA. Again, ball is in your court.

...also, you're only partially correct about re-fi's.

What???? Refi??? What the heck are you folks talking about??? Refi???

I'm sorry, but where are we talking this discussion because I have no idea what this has to do with how Republicans grew an economic brain between 2000 and 2011, sufficient to be trusted with the Executive branch of government and responsible for determining national fiscal policy, given the train wreck they engineered from 2000 through 2008.

That's what this is all about - not some Red Herring Refi hologram.

...i can't even count the number of re-fi's i did during the early to mid 2000's... home values were over-inflated. people were told by their banks and mortgage brokers that if they re-fi'd and improved the house, the value would go up even more. at that time, during the bubble, no one expected that would not remain the case.

Ok, I think I see where you are trying to take this. Gee, you are all over the place.

Look, I'm trying to explain to you that Refi or no Refi, the problem was not born of mortgage structures, but of Job Loss in America from 2000 through 2008. As a key note on the source of the funds, I including China's willingness to continue providing the liquidity that our greedy government wanted to fuel its spending binge. That "Refi" loan you keep talking about, came as a direct result of Chinese Savings used to purchase U.S. debt.

China, fueled our economic real estate bubble. But, that in no way relieves us from the responsibility of not indulging ourselves in the easy credit game. When you couple China's influx of capital into the U.S. through our treasury department, with Allen Greenspan and his destructive War On The USD by dropping rates too fast and too low, you ended up with a U.S. banking industry that saw free money on the table and no moral or ethical restraint to keep it in check. That's how somebody with barely a pulse was able to get that $700k home loan that they were only one mortgage payment away from blowing.

Understanding the mechanics of how we got into this mess, will tell you a lot about WHY we are still not out of this mess. None of it (absolutely zero) had or has anything to do with President Obama.

Our entire economy was predicated on a lie. $0.80 of every consumer dollar in principle, was fronted with $1.60 of DEBT! We cannot live like that and survive as a viable economic concern going forward. It won't work and this is what pure, under-regulated Capitalism has brought to our door-steep. It was GREED and a lust for money that killed our economy and the banks got off absolute free - none of the crooks who engineered this mess went to jail - none of them.

Now, if I have a problem with Obama, it would be for not going getting a conviction on somebody involved in the creation of Toxic Debt and the financial weapons of mass destruction that Warren Buffett, talked about. I also have a serious problem with the Obama Administration for not going after those truly responsible for the illegal wars that we've prosecuted on behalf of oil, PSA contracts and Bush family cronies.

But, most importantly, given the total lack of common sense anywhere inside the 911 Commission Report and the NIST Report, I am really unhappy with the Obama Administration for not re-opening and conducting a serious bottom-up investigation of the events of 911.

So, don't sit here and think that I'm some kind of Obama apologist - you'd be massively wrong about that. I just don't like all the ridiculous piling-on that silly people are doing with respect to this President - merely because of the color of his skin AND because he happens to be a Democrat.

I warned you that I was an Independents, Independent - to the core. I stand on my own two feat and I do not pledge allegiance to any Political Party, Political Ideology and Political Dogma. I pledge my allegiance to the American Flag and I suggest that all genuine Americans do the same.

Our way of life was radically altered as Americans on November 7th, 2000. To the core. September 11th, 2001, is our litmus test and how we ultimately solve that problem will either be the undoing of our Republic, or it will mark time for the renewing of our nation and the saving of our Democratic Republic.

You can believe this: Our Republic has changed. Whether people know it or not, accept it or not, understand it or not. We either pull our country back from the brink of destruction, or we will end as Rome ended.

Mark my words. Things are NOT what they appear to be on the surface of our nation. Transformation towards tyranny, is already well underway and it has been for the past 11 years.

I pray that this country opens its eyes, so it can see what clearly sits right underneath its nose. It is time to accept reality for what it is, as hard to deal with as that might be.

You must be the center of attention at those hi class Trader cocktail parties.. She was responding to ME cross-eyes..

But you managed to bloviate just fine anyway..

 

[CessnaCJ4]

The way you come charging out of the gate with all your volunteered wisdom makes it appear that cocaine might be involved here. Before you even understand who you're dealing with or WHAT I've said in the 1300 posts on USMB.. As in...

Ok, so you inject something that demonstrates that you did not read correctly what was actually written, and that is somehow my fault? I would suggest that instead of dangling your 1,300 USMB posts in my face, why not instead simply attempt to actually read what was typed. That might help you to stop responding to things that have not been stated.

All that belittlement about using obsolete models to predict how a SHIFT to a service economy would affect various kinds of economic stimulus.. I was RIDICULING the expectations that "demand stimulus" still have the same effect as they USED to. Because evidently -- all the economic advisors he's selected still think it's 1933.

I've heard that argument before and I keep coming back to the same question: Is spending, still spending? Is revenue still revenue? Is hiring still hiring and do companies need the economy to spend, so they can make revenues, so in turn they can hire?

Demand stimulus; Supply stimulus; Currency stimulus; Credit stimulus, or Psychological stimulus - I still end up with the same questions: Does actual hiring take place when money is spent, inventories are moved and delivery trucks get on the highway? Or, does hiring take place when merely the prospect of spending money looms on the horizon? I think the former generates more jobs and more stability for the economy. However, on this issue, I am flexible. All I want, is our economy working again, but I know that our former economic model is never going to serve is long-term.

We are not only in a desperate race to create jobs. We are in a desperate race to re-design and economic model that is capable of sustaining the growth of our population and capable of staking out advantage in an increasingly globalized economic paradigm. That's the broader point I'm trying to make here.

Because I've been preaching the dangers of a service economy for about 10 years now. And how NO LEADERSHIP towards restoring hi tech startups has been displayed or encouraged.

Well, I support that notion. Bill Clinton, to his credit, did go to Silicone Valley and provided Tax Credits for Jobs and the creation of New Technology. I am almost 100% certain that Obama will need to do something similar. But, you have to understand that the Middle Class had significant participation in the previous Technology boom and there were a lot of bread and butter enterprise technologies that had not yet come to the surface, which also helped to fuel growth in that industry.

It is also important to note that as enterprise technology grew, it ignited growth in other industries as a direct result which also contributed to systemic job growth nationally. So, I agree - we need more focus on reviving a 'new' enterprise technology pillar, only this time, there needs to be a strong Clean Energy Technology component to the mix of baseline enterprise technology development. Lets not kid ourselves - like it or not, the future is Clean or Cleaner Energy consumption, as well as sustainable Clean Energy production.

That is where the next big economic foundation resides. China, gets this notion and they have staked a claim in the automotive, aeronautical and civilian nuclear industries to prove that they get it. We need to get it too and we can get it, with the right leadership. President Obama's initial campaign agenda was all about this kind of new economic foundation, but that was severely interrupted by the 2008 economic implosion.

We were ALL TOLD decades ago - that when the economy converted to flat global, that WE would have to shift skill sets. Instead we get the leftists wanting to cannibalize the carcass of what's left. And your feckless leader is on top of that because he doesn't have a clue what industry really should be doing..

You should go back and listen to his campaign speeches before the economic meltdown. He talked about this very thing as he weaved his message with important highlights regarding the need to shift our educational focus back to science, technology and engineering. We all sat there and listened to him make these speeches across the country BEFORE the 2008 implosion, so I have no idea how anyone can now claim that the President does not understand what's going on.

He demonstrated that he understood this, when nobody on the Right during the campaign was talking about making our Economic model extensible to a broader reaching energy technology foundation. He gets its it. He talked a lot about it. And, that's precisely where he was headed, until the recession changed his focus - and for good reason.

Which also brings me to his selection of advisors -- starting with Tax Cheat Geitner who couldn't follow simple instructions on filing his FICA taxes even when he was given a CHECK to pay them with.. And now he's our Treas. Secy?

Was Henry Paulson, a better pick for the other side? I mean, was he not on the inside of the banking and finance industry, up to his eyeballs? Did he not come waltzing into the halls of Congress, with his hand out asking for a multi-hundred billion dollar check, backed by the American Taxpayer? Did he not have a stake in the outcome, before Bush, sent him to Congress with his hand out?

Come on, now. Using Timothy, is not an edge, here. It was actually a handicap - I'm surprised you pulled him from the rubble.

To answer your question, no. I would have liked to see Obama, reach further outside of the current mainstream for a Treasury Secty. But, at the very same time, who do you pick for such a role when you need people who actually understand how the banking and finance system works from the inside out and you've got a mission critical crisis on your hands?

I mean, think long and hard before you answer. What would have happened if Obama, went completely outside the loop, brought in a total neophyte and proceeded to *really* make things worse? I'm not talking about this fake, phony claim that his political adversaries put forth now, claiming that he made things worse, when he did not and there is zero evidence to support it.

They would have literally hung Obama by his shoelaces, had he gone outside the establishment to pick someone who knew absolutely nothing about Banking and/or Finance from the inside - when such a mission critical crisis was underway. People would have claimed that Obama was incompetent and clearly not able to pick the right person for the job.

So, he picks an insider and STILL gets hammered for it from the Right. The Right refuses to give the man credit for anything he does correctly - regardless of what that might be and that's the problem with politics in Washington today. It is too darn partisan an environment.

Great judgement.. Or the drama of trapping the top bankers in a room and extorting them to sign the TARP applications when they clearly didn't want the money. Or delaying repayment requests so that Obama could keep them hooked up to the taser.

Extorting the Bankers! Hello?

We are talking about the very same people who crashed our economy and you are claiming that they were extorted to take money that they did not want? That's rich.

The issue was not to force money down the throats of the banks, LOL. That's hilarious. The issue was to make certain that they had enough backbone capital so as to not go under and catalyze an even bigger downfall for the economy. So, yes! That part was good thinking on behalf of the Administration, as it shows an understanding of the acute nature of the economy at the time and how fragile it was during a period when depression was on deck with a bat in its hand.

LOL, extorting the bankers! I've never heard that one before. The bankers enticed the American People with easy credit, not the other way around. LOL! Amazing!

And I've not heard Obama talking about increasing the skill set of American workers. Or the fact that our science/engineering colleges are filled with foreign students instead of American kids.

Then were have you been? This is precisely what he's been talking about for YEARS. How could you have missed all those talks, speeches, town halls, etc.?

Or talking about making it easier for capital to CHALLENGE the huge multinationals. EVERYTHING TO DO with increased GOVT regulation favors the huge Jeff Immelts and imposes barriers to the REAL innovators and industry creators.

You are not being intellectually honest when you say that all Obama, has done, was talk about regulation. He would be pinned to he tail, after the 2008 banking and finance industry created economic bust, if he did not talk to the American People about how to create an environment where such things could never happen again. And, that requires that the President speak strongly about targeted regulation in industries that can put the American economy in jeopardy. That's what he did. Discussions about regulation have primarily been about Banking and Finance, exactly where they need to be.

Now, I am not happy about the Administrations failure to deal with the Credit Reporting Agencies, because they were just as much to blame for the economic crisis as any U.S. Bank ever could be. So, I'd like to see much more emphasis on CRA Reform, unless I already missed it in Dodd/Frank.

The Green Jobs myth is WAAAY overplayed. Dismal predictable failure since the list of "alternatives" doesn't include anything concrete. Wind is 20 minutes on --- 2 hours off. It's utilitity as well as solar is as a "peaking source" --- not by definition an "alternative". He's managed to turn this into the same cronie capitalism pissing match as every other GOVT sponsored "Great leap forward" like the "internet superhiway".. To the exclusion of developing REAL new industries in robotics, artificial intellience, biotech, nanotech, and materials. China understands that their cheap labor advantage is fleeting and that 21st manufacturing is NOT gonna get leverage on cheap labor. THEY are already looking to automation and intelligient fabrication. We better get there first.

Then why is China building an all Electric Car Company? Why is China proofing a pilot facility that will produce civilian nuclear power without the possibility of core reactor meltdown? Why has China, invested billions of Yuan, in its Aerospace facilities, to include at least two campuses that I know about, that will train and educate China's future Aerospace Scientists? China, is gearing up to invest in advanced battery powered cars and aircraft power-plants, yet we have nothing on the same scale as China, when it comes to Government sponsored research and technology development.

China, is investing in its Clean Energy future. Maybe we should think about doing the same - with the same degree of enthusiasm.

Just like you pointed out that the nuclear industry hasn't been allowed to demonstrate 21st century technology in this country. As much as it pains me to admit. You seem to actually get that. Scary that we might actually agree on shit that matters -- instead of this inane quest you have to defend an obviously incompetent administration.

Look, I told you I was an Independent's, Independent. I want to see this country succeed more than any one political party. If it were up to me, I'd ban political parties from the face of American Culture, but they won't give me that power, lest I use it.

I want to see biotech finally live up to its promise. I want to see advancements in Nanotech, though I also want to see that segment heavily regulated and monitored for some obvious and some not so obvious reasons. And, I want to see advanced civilian nuclear technologies brought online and used responsibly in this country. But, most of all, I want to see the American Middle Class Revival. However, none of that is going to happen inside our old model, where profits are put ahead of common sense and better judgement.

Only the Obama administration could make Cash for Clunkers largely WORSE than how California did it back in the 1990s. They STOLE that idea and ruined it even more than it's fundamental flaws back then. At least in California, the result was to get REAL polluting clunkers off the road. These clowns wrecked perfectly good cars so that yahoos could buy a new pickup truck..

The goal was to stimulate the economy. When your back is against the wall and you are hemorrhaging jobs to the tune of hundreds of thousands of jobs per month and your homeowners are being kicked out into the streets by bankers who put padlocks and bars on their doors, when the unemployment rate is skyrocketing right before your eyes in real time and when the entire nation is looking for some kind of relieve - any relief; you will go to the Cash For Clunkers and any damn thing else you can get your hands on to provide The People with some margin of sanity in their lives.

I don't for one minute, blame Obama for the Cash for Clunkers attempt. It was not supposed to be the be-all-end-all of economic stimulus. It was one small part in a larger attempt at solving a crisis situation that was created long before Obama came into office.

The rest of your post I did indeed read, but found it lacking the need of a response. Had I seen something there worth responded to, I would have as most of my writings here indicate, I hope.

 

[CessnaCJ4]

It has been a blast dialoging with you guys today! I can't do this everyday, I've got work to do and I need to be up at 0500 hrs. So, until next time America and remember: We are all in this boat together!

I've tried to shoot straight with people and I've tried to keep things on the merits - which is hard to do in political forum such as this. But, underneath it all, I care deeply about my country for reasons that I need to leave off-line. But, rest assured, I love my country and my countrymen. And, I hate to see her being ripped apart the way she is, by ultra-partisan and hyper-political hacking.

This boat must sail in one direction at a time. We cannot split the hull and parade into a myriad different directions. That's not what the United States of America stands for, nor will the United States of American stand for it. A country divided will never stand, is a theme we have all heard once before. However, a country unaware of its true position in history, is worse than a country divided.

We face many challenges, but we've faced challenges before and managed to come out on top. And, as we faced those challenges, we also managed to come together to deal with what hinders us. My suggestion to America is that you once again live up to THAT standard, to THAT calling and to THAT claim on your future.

Let it be known for generations to come, that when challenged; when oppressed; when afflicted; when all seems like defeat and loss are but a stones throw away, that it was our generation that stood tall and breached the night of travail and turmoil, so that our nations flag could fly another day.

May God bless our entire planet and may He see fit to grace a special blessing upon the United States of America.

So say one. So say us all.