Pope v. Science on Condoms

[Midnight Marauder]

You can indeed have unprotected sex with a woman who has full blown AIDS and you won't catch it. Circumcision seems to be some kind of deterrent. Not sure why.

Condoms opponents have seized on the fact that condoms are not 100% perfect in preventing AIDS to further their arguments that abstinence and sex within marriage are the only ways to prevent AIDS.

I am not an opponent of condoms. I am a realist. I am an opponent of the cultural lie that indeed exists, that the condom is in fact 100% safe and effective. Well, of course it is, so song as it doesn't slip off, break, or leak. For whatever reason, kids aren't told this and none have any idea of the failure rate, and don't find out about it until they have an accident.

And condoms made of animal tissue are definitely NOT recommended for prevention of STDs!

"Accidents" should be stressed alot more, when instructing condom use. It's glossed over. Because they believe if kids knew the failure rate is 3-14% they might not use them at all, but still wouldn't abstain. Well, there's the problem. They don't want to teach abstinence at all, because they think it isn't practical, so let's arm the kids with condoms and hope for the best. And NOT inform them of the possible consequences.

Those stats are from Stanford University. That's 3-14 pregnancies resulting out of every 100 acts of sexual intercourse USING condoms! That scares me, and I'm fearless!

The only guaranteed 100% effective birth control is abstinence. I am NO fan of "abstinence only" sex education but I do think it should be an equal part of it. But the thing is, it shares the same fatal flaw all birth control methods do -- if you don't use them they for sure won't work!

As to having sex with a person who has full-blown AIDS? I'll pass and let you service those.

 

[Diuretic]

If you're gong to have sex with someone you don't know very well then you should use a condom.

Any problems with that?

 

[eots]

Benedict has never before spoken explicitly on condom use although he has stressed that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

FOXNews.com - Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Naturally, the international and scientific community were not amused, as stated in this Lancet editorial:

Whether the Pope's error was due to ignorance or a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology is unclear. But the comment still stands and the Vatican's attempts to tweak the Pope's words, further tampering with the truth, is not the way forward. When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record. Anything less from Pope Benedict would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates, including many thousands of Catholics, who work tirelessly to try and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS worldwide.

Redemption for the Pope? : The Lancet

I can see why the Pope would prefer that people abstain or be faithful instead of rely on condoms, even though merely encouraging that approach is not likely to yield results. But he thinks that condoms exacerbate the problem?!

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS, but won't protect you from other consequences of immoral behavior, whatever those might be.

aids in Africa is a man made epidemic...a eugenics program..the pope wants Africans to die on mass...just like the popes intentional gave TB to native Americans...

 

[Silver Diva]

This Pope is a dumbass! The statement about the condoms goes against all scientific and medical evidence. More people have died and will continue to die in Africa of AIDS because of the catholic church's dumb stance on condom use. The number who die because of this stance will far exceed the number of people killed on 9/11. It is indeed a sad day when German Chancellor Merkel criticizes the Pope for not being clear enough in denouncing the catholic priest who denied the Holocaust.

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjrzo_eLfZM]YouTube - AIDS Manmade: Robert Gallo, The Man That Created AIDS[/ame]

 

[Diuretic]

I thought it was a disease endemic to monkeys which was ingested by humans when they ate the monkeys.

 

[eots]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3tzw6gKRz4&feature=PlayList&p=0A27A7990CB64FDE&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2]YouTube - UNREPENTANT -- Kevin Annett and Canada's Genocide 1of11[/ame]

 

[eots]

what better way of stealing the land and resources of indigenous people..than for them all to get sick and die....[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNsAK7jS0WY]YouTube - Native Americans Secretly Sterilized - George H.W. Bush[/ame]

 

[garyd]

Most people who argue for condom use add the caveat 'when properly used'. When done properly you won't kill yourself playing Russian roulette either and the chance of a bad outcome is nearly identical.

That caveat is just a bit lame when the users are in the heat of passion in the back seat of a car somewhere groping in the dark don't you think?

 

[DavidS]

This is nuts. I can't believe there are people stupid enough out there that think using condoms won't protect you against STDs. This is shit I learned in the 4th grade.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Obviously you did not read the articles to understand what the Pope is saying about condom use and AIDS.

 

[garyd]

eots take your unleavened conspiracy bs to the appropriate web site.

The statistics indicate a failure rate for pregnancy of somewhere around 14%, sperm are considerably larger than germs and the latter don't need testicles to propagate. Further genital warts, and two or three other STDS of varying degrees of commonality and danger are not significantly impacted by condom use. It is also possible though unlikely that some STDs can be spread simply by kissing your partner provided both of you have gingivitis or some other gum disease that cause bleeding of the gums.

 

[tigerbob]

Benedict has never before spoken explicitly on condom use although he has stressed that the Roman Catholic Church is in the forefront of the battle against AIDS. The Vatican encourages sexual abstinence to fight the spread of the disease.

"You can't resolve it with the distribution of condoms," the pope told reporters aboard the Alitalia plane headed to Yaounde, Cameroon. "On the contrary, it increases the problem."

FOXNews.com - Pope: Condoms 'Increase' AIDS Epidemic in Africa - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Naturally, the international and scientific community were not amused, as stated in this Lancet editorial:

Whether the Pope's error was due to ignorance or a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology is unclear. But the comment still stands and the Vatican's attempts to tweak the Pope's words, further tampering with the truth, is not the way forward. When any influential person, be it a religious or political leader, makes a false scientific statement that could be devastating to the health of millions of people, they should retract or correct the public record. Anything less from Pope Benedict would be an immense disservice to the public and health advocates, including many thousands of Catholics, who work tirelessly to try and prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS worldwide.

Redemption for the Pope? : The Lancet

I can see why the Pope would prefer that people abstain or be faithful instead of rely on condoms, even though merely encouraging that approach is not likely to yield results. But he thinks that condoms exacerbate the problem?!

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS, but won't protect you from other consequences of immoral behavior, whatever those might be.

I suspect the view in the Lancet...

a deliberate attempt to manipulate science to support Catholic ideology

...is pretty much spot on.

 

[garyd]

I suspect the view in the Lancet disagrees sharply with several UN studies...

 

[tigerbob]

I suspect the view in the Lancet disagrees sharply with several UN studies...

I didn't know the UN had conducted studies on Catholic ideology.

 

[garyd]

Um we aren't discussing Catholic ideology which frankly sucks in my opinion we are discussing the impact of condom use on the spread of AIDs in Africa which to date seems to be effectively nil according to at least one UN study on population in Africa. Previously referenced by another poster in this thread.

 

[Missourian]

Are you serious?

That's like saying that sometimes car brakes fail, so we should buy a car without brakes and just hope for the best. Why use airbags if they sometimes fail, right? Oh and bullet proof vests - they don't work 100% of the time, either - so let's just send our cops out there without them.

David, your analogy is totally flawed.

An airbag and a bullet proof vest are used to limit the damage caused by actions that are beyond the control of the user.

To make your analogy accurate, the driver of the vehicle must intentional wreck their car at high speed, for personal pleasure, trusting this isn't the 4% on the time the airbag will fail.

Or the policeman volunteers to be shot in the chest, because is feels fantastic, hoping this isn't on of the 2 times in 100 that the bullet proof vest will not stop the lethal projectile.

Who in their right mind would intentially take those risks?

People who choose a condom over abstinence...that's who.

 

[tigerbob]

Um we aren't discussing Catholic ideology which frankly sucks in my opinion we are discussing the impact of condom use on the spread of AIDs in Africa which to date seems to be effectively nil according to at least one UN study on population in Africa. Previously referenced by another poster in this thread.

I hadn't read the other post, and my post about the UN was facetious. I also hadn't realized that condoms had no affect in curtailing the spread of AIDS. Interesting, and thanks for clarifying. I'll probably do a bit of reading up about it now.

 

[Yukon]

This Pope is a Nazi, a formed soldier in the German Army. It is for this reason that I refuse to return as a Priest. I will not bow to a Nazi.

 

[auditor0007]

He really needs to offer a clarification that condoms do help protect against HIV/AIDS, but won't protect you from other consequences of immoral behavior, whatever those might be.

Immoral behavior?

What's the purpose of speaking out against immoral behavior if you can rectify your sins through believing in Jesus Christ and achieve eternal salvation in paradise for doing so?

Let's say some freak goes out and rapes women and children and then kills them. The hour before his execution he all of a sudden believes in Christ then he's saved vs. a normal human being who doesn't believe in Christ but is a good person and he's damned to eternal hell?

The entire idea behind Christianity is completely illogical. And Catholicism is just another version.

There is a huge difference between accepting Christ as your Saviour and truly asking forgiveness while understanding the scope of your sins. While I am Christian, I have issue with many of Christianity's teachings. However, true forgiveness is not one of them. I believe anyone can be forgiven, but it's not quite as simple as saying "Oh yea, I'm a bad person, so I'm asking for forgiveness now". Showing sorrow to save your own ass does not qualify. Feeling true sorrow for the pain you have caused others is what it is about.