Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem

[MikeK]

Now if the GOP will act accordingly on raising taxes on the rich. They need to listen to the people who elected them.

But how much do you want to bet they give the American people a big "FUCK YOU" and protect the wealthy at the expense of the people who can least afford it?

[...]

In the pre-computerized past the conventional wisdom in Washington held that tampering with Medicare and/or Social Security was political suicide. So the obvious question is why are so many elected Republicans so eager to tempt fate?

It occurs to me that this is no longer the pre-computerized past and the Republicans have gotten the word that the fix is in. Aside from foreknowledge of corrupted voting machines I can't think of any reason why the Republicans are so willing to piss off the biggest and most reliable voting block of all. Seniors.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

SS is easy to fix. Medicare not so easy.
Socialized medicine stands the best shot.

Sure, if you want to suffer and die

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Americans don't want their taxes raised either.

IOW they don't want their benefits cut, they don't want their taxes raised, and they want the deficit to go down.

In the meantime, gold hits a new high every day.

That's exactly the problem. The American people are incredibly ignorant. They want what they can't have because they don't understand what is making up the whole pie. That is why we need politicians who are going to be leaders and make the tough choices that will probably piss off a lot of people and may cost some of them reelection even though it's the right thing to do.

I'm waiting to see what the Gang of 6 up with in the Senate.

 

[Political Junky]

SS is easy to fix. Medicare not so easy.
Socialized medicine stands the best shot.

Sure, if you want to suffer and die

Tommy Douglas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canadians love the memory of Tommy Douglas who is responsible for their Medicare for all.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Why do we assume the elderly paid their dues? They may have paid some of their dues, but certainly not all, given that medicare is grossly underfunded.

is that their fault?.....if you have worked 30-40 years and have paid whatever it is you have paid into the system.....you did it in good faith and when its your time you should get what you were led to believe you would get.....

And that differs from state employee pension plans how?

What?....i thought we were talking about the Elderly paying their dues.......your going to have to explain what you are asking.....what i said up there refers to Federal,State County, City,General Moters,GE,Boing.....wherever.....you worked the time,paid whatever into it IN GOOD FAITH.....you deserve what you were led to believe you would get when you Retire....if you feel it has to be changed....then change it with the new hires....not the people who have worked half their lives there.....

 

[MikeK]

That's exactly the problem. The American people are incredibly ignorant. They want what they can't have because they don't understand what is making up the whole pie. That is why we need politicians who are going to be leaders and make the tough choices that will probably piss off a lot of people and may cost some of them reelection even though it's the right thing to do.

I'm waiting to see what the Gang of 6 up with in the Senate.

It's really a simple choice: Terminate Medicare or raise taxes on the rich. So opposition to the latter choice will come from the rich and those who hate their parents and grandparents.

Where do you stand on this issue?

 

[DaGoose]

Now if the GOP will act accordingly on raising taxes on the rich. They need to listen to the people who elected them.

But how much do you want to bet they give the American people a big "FUCK YOU" and protect the wealthy at the expense of the people who can least afford it?

[...]

In the pre-computerized past the conventional wisdom in Washington held that tampering with Medicare and/or Social Security was political suicide. So the obvious question is why are so many elected Republicans so eager to tempt fate?

It occurs to me that this is no longer the pre-computerized past and the Republicans have gotten the word that the fix is in. Aside from foreknowledge of corrupted voting machines I can't think of any reason why the Republicans are so willing to piss off the biggest and most reliable voting block of all. Seniors.

Does anyone have a suggestion?

Exactly. If you want Dems in complete control of all three branches of government for the next 50 years then go ahead and mess with SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

Americans don't want their taxes raised either.

IOW they don't want their benefits cut, they don't want their taxes raised, and they want the deficit to go down.

In the meantime, gold hits a new high every day.

It's why we, as a people, need some leadership. But until we, as individuals, step up to the leadership the people need, we will continue to see this ridiculousness.

 

[Avatar4321]

SS is easy to fix. Medicare not so easy.
Socialized medicine stands the best shot.

Sure, if you want to suffer and die

I've got a feeling he plans to be long gone before any of that actually gets implimented.

 

[RadiomanATL]

90% want the winning lottery numbers too. So?

Doesn't mean that the country needs to be governed that way. Stupid argument.

 

[Steve Hanson]

Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem - The Washington Post

<excerpts>
The Post-ABC poll finds that 78 percent oppose cutting spending on Medicare as a way to chip away at the debt. On Medicaid — the government insurance program for the poor — 69 percent disapprove of cuts.

In his speech last week, the president renewed his call to raise tax rates on family income over $250,000, and he appears to hold the high ground politically, according to the poll. At this point, 72 percent support raising taxes along those lines, with 54 percent strongly backing this approach. The proposal enjoys the support of majorities of Democrats (91 percent), independents (68 percent) and Republicans (54 percent). Only among people with annual incomes greater than $100,000 does less than a majority “strongly support” such tax increases.

Well half of America is on entitlements so what would you expect. But being real, I'd hardly call Medicare and entitelment.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Here is the US budget for this year.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy12/pdf/BUDGET-2012-BUD.pdf

Total expected spending: $3.8 trillion.
Total expected tax revenue: $2.2 trillion.

Deficit: $1.6 trillion.

Social security, $800 billion.
Cut to $0
Medicare and medicaid, $800 billion.
Cot to $0
Defense, $800 billion
Interest, $200 billion. (Can't cut that though.)
Everything else, $1.2 trillion.

Budget balanced.

OK. So you're OK with fucking over the people who paid for it their whole lives; But are you also OK with continuing to tax for FICA even as you've eliminated all the benefits?
If not, you're really about $900B off your mark.

Yes, and yes.
If you believe that SS was an investment and not just another form of welfare, you were duped.
If you believe that your FICA deductioin was some sort os special tax that did not wind up in the general fund, you were duped.

 

[M14 Shooter]

With all of the technlogy we have available today, we do not need to be "over there" to protect the citizens "over here".

Your statement doesn't in any way speak to what I said, or make your premise any less false.

But, you do offer another false premise, in that the only legitimate function of national defense is to protect only that which exists, literally, within the borders of the US. The national interests of the US extend far beyond her borders.

Please be specific on the "national interests" far beyond our borders. And no, I do not wish to engage in another discussion about us being bound by treaties and such.

It is in the National Interest to maintain open Sea Lines of Communication, both in terms of our economic interests, but our immediate security interests as well. Doing this is a mult-faceted task, and requires the ability to support the assets maintaining these lines all around the globe.

Other than that - your post doesn't in any way speak to what I previously said, or make your premises any less false -- that's THREE of them so far.

I'm sure you will again ignore this fact.

 

[Toro]

Americans don't want their taxes raised either.

IOW they don't want their benefits cut, they don't want their taxes raised, and they want the deficit to go down.

In the meantime, gold hits a new high every day.

It's why we, as a people, need some leadership. But until we, as individuals, step up to the leadership the people need, we will continue to see this ridiculousness.

We don't have any from anyone, though I give Paul Ryan credit for putting it out there.

We need another Ross Perot, a third party candidate who has no chance of winning but can galvanize an issue, forcing the traditional parties to take action. That's what happened in the 90s. It's also what happened in Canada when a third party came out of nowhere to make the deficit the number one issue.

 

[Avatar4321]

Americans don't want their taxes raised either.

IOW they don't want their benefits cut, they don't want their taxes raised, and they want the deficit to go down.

In the meantime, gold hits a new high every day.

It's why we, as a people, need some leadership. But until we, as individuals, step up to the leadership the people need, we will continue to see this ridiculousness.

We don't have any from anyone, though I give Paul Ryan credit for putting it out there.

We need another Ross Perot, a third party candidate who has no chance of winning but can galvanize an issue, forcing the traditional parties to take action. That's what happened in the 90s. It's also what happened in Canada when a third party came out of nowhere to make the deficit the number one issue.

Yeah, because another Obama term is really what we need...

 

[Toro]

is that their fault?.....if you have worked 30-40 years and have paid whatever it is you have paid into the system.....you did it in good faith and when its your time you should get what you were led to believe you would get.....

And that differs from state employee pension plans how?

What?....i thought we were talking about the Elderly paying their dues.......your going to have to explain what you are asking.....what i said up there refers to Federal,State County, City,General Moters,GE,Boing.....wherever.....you worked the time,paid whatever into it IN GOOD FAITH.....you deserve what you were led to believe you would get when you Retire....if you feel it has to be changed....then change it with the new hires....not the people who have worked half their lives there.....

What I'm saying is that the two are comparable.

Seniors have not put enough aside to pay for their medicare. The unfunded liability of Medicare may be as high as $50 trillion.

Likewise, state employees have not set aside enough for their retirement, except by the most extreme forecasts, the unfunded liability is about $3 trillion.

Yet, the Tea Party focuses on the unfunded liabilities of the state employees. They don't focus as much on the unfunded liabilities of medicare. Why? Because the Tea Party skews older, many of whom are recipients of medicare. Instead, the chant platitudes such as "We paid into it," or "We paid our dues." Well, how's that any different from state employees? State employees paid into the pension plans as well, either directly or indirectly through deferred compensation. But the Tea Party wants state employees to pay more into their pension plans - or get less. They aren't as vocal about seniors paying more or getting less. They are applying a double standard because it affects them. Yet the unfunded liabilities of state employees pales compared to that of medicare.

I'm not passing a moral judgment. I'm just pointing out the contradiction which is rife throughout American politics at the moment. People want others to pay, but they don't want to pay themselves for the benefits they are receiving. It's not only Tea Party supporters doing that. Most Americans are. It's just that on this issue, its pretty blatant.

 

[kyzr]

Now if the GOP will act accordingly on raising taxes on the rich. They need to listen to the people who elected them.

But how much do you want to bet they give the American people a big "FUCK YOU" and protect the wealthy at the expense of the people who can least afford it?[...]

In the pre-computerized past the conventional wisdom in Washington held that tampering with Medicare and/or Social Security was political suicide. So the obvious question is why are so many elected Republicans so eager to tempt fate?

It occurs to me that this is no longer the pre-computerized past and the Republicans have gotten the word that the fix is in. Aside from foreknowledge of corrupted voting machines I can't think of any reason why the Republicans are so willing to piss off the biggest and most reliable voting block of all. Seniors. Does anyone have a suggestion?

Exactly. If you want Dems in complete control of all three branches of government for the next 50 years then go ahead and mess with SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

You missed the point entirely. The old slogans don't work. The dems need to put up their plan to save SS & Medicare, as agreed to by the CBO and the rest of us. Something along the line of the Debt Commission recommendations. Ryan's Plan is DOA, doing nothing is DOA, we want the Budget fixed now, if not heads will roll.
The Debt Ceiling and the 2012 Budget fight should be a classic.

 

[rdean]

I would presume that's because they don't know how bad the problem is or to the extent that the entitlements are causing the problems.

Looks like we need to keep educating people.

Exactly. How do we cover the $51-trillion dollar ponzi scheme we call Medicare?
I have not heard the dems' plan to save SS & Medicare over the long-term. What is it?

That is because they have none. Their Plan amounts to Demonize the Opposition and Rape 500 Billion from Medicare to help fund the Next Big Government Health plan that is sure to fail.

That's not quite true. Democrats have long pushed the plan for buying medical supplies "in bulk", but Republicans have not only blocked that, they codified it into law in the Medicare Part D. It's one of the reasons that plan is so expensive.

It works like this. Say France, Great Britain and Spain need insulin. They consolidate their order and because it's in bulk, the cost is pennies.

Now say all the HMOs in Texas want to buy insulin in bulk because their cost would drop, NO CAN DO. Every HMO has to place their orders separately. Every state separately. Every organization separately. NO BULK ORDERS! This can raise the cost by a factor of a hundred. This happened because the drug companies lobbied Republicans who were in power to include that in their Drug bill. Anyone who followed this bill which, by the way, was, "passed through reconciliation" knows this was a major part of the debate.

$Republicans are for the drug companies. They know it hurts America, but just like those in the base who say, "We don't care about anyone else", the leadership also "doesn't care".

 

[Avatar4321]

Exactly. How do we cover the $51-trillion dollar ponzi scheme we call Medicare?
I have not heard the dems' plan to save SS & Medicare over the long-term. What is it?

That is because they have none. Their Plan amounts to Demonize the Opposition and Rape 500 Billion from Medicare to help fund the Next Big Government Health plan that is sure to fail.

That's not quite true. Democrats have long pushed the plan for buying medical supplies "in bulk", but Republicans have not only blocked that, they codified it into law in the Medicare Part D. It's one of the reasons that plan is so expensive.

It works like this. Say France, Great Britain and Spain need insulin. They consolidate their order and because it's in bulk, the cost is pennies.

Now say all the HMOs in Texas want to buy insulin in bulk because their cost would drop, NO CAN DO. Every HMO has to place their orders separately. Every state separately. Every organization separately. NO BULK ORDERS! This can raise the cost by a factor of a hundred. This happened because the drug companies lobbied Republicans who were in power to include that in their Drug bill. Anyone who followed this bill which, by the way, was, "passed through reconciliation" knows this was a major part of the debate.

$Republicans are for the drug companies. They know it hurts America, but just like those in the base who say, "We don't care about anyone else", the leadership also "doesn't care".

Of course we are for drug companies. We like the fact that they do research and develop treatments and cures for diseases.

Why on earth would any sane person be opposed to that?

 

[Mr Liberty]

It doesn't matter what the polls say. If we don't cut Medicare and other things necessary the balance our budget, the economy shall collapse. We are debasing the dollar at an alarming rate. Hyperinflation is going to happen in the near future.

A few links: Dollar Collapse, One Scenario--China, Oil, Rationing | Gerald Celente Trends Blog

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOFGWJI1ZL4"][/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcBRr7Yd9iQ&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcBRr7Yd9iQ&feature=related[/ame]