Poll For Conservatives:

[thereisnospoon]

court system is fine, but i don't believe the government should award tax bonuses / increases to married folks which, lets be honest, is what its really about.

OK. Let's say you have a man who is living with three women. He has children with two of them. One of them moved in 12 months ago but she appears to be his favorite. They are all married. He dies intestate.
Is a court really going to figure out what goes to whom in a situation like that? Yet courts will be expected to do more than say "you created this mess, you deal with it."
And there is more to marriage benefit than taxes.

2/3 for the kids 1/3 for the spouses

there's a real challenge

If it were only that simple.

 

[Dr Grump]

so, you post a biased poll to attempt to prove your fallacy true?

how is asking conservatives to state whether they are for or against gay marriage biased?

Because many don't care.

"Don't care" is irrelevant to the poll...as is "I don't believe in marriage licences" as is "the poll doesn't cover my answer because I want gays to have the same rights but not actually get marriage".

The poll is straight forward. I'm not going to explain a third time the reasons for, or the purposes of, the OP...

 

[DiveCon]

how is asking conservatives to state whether they are for or against gay marriage biased?

Because many don't care.

"Don't care" is irrelevant to the poll...as is "I don't believe in marriage licences" as is "the poll doesn't cover my answer because I want gays to have the same rights but not actually get marriage".

The poll is straight forward. I'm not going to explain a third time the reasons for, or the purposes of, the OP...

your reasons are invalid
and you made a biased poll

or are you that fucking ignorant of the facts that you dont know that some churches do perform gay weddings?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Not surprising at all...As Most Americans find out that they have gay friends and relatives...it's very hard to think of us as deserving of 2nd class citizenship.

Except you don't want first class citizenship. You want rights no one else has.

OK, name one of those rights I want that no one else has.

I will......Some gays wish minority status even though "homsosexual" is a behavior group.
Reconition as a minority groups assured gays of becoming a protected class. In other words, gays are then recognized as victims. And havoing victim status has it's priveledges.
Special rights..
My thinking is this. If gays wish only to be treated equally in the eyes of the law, I am fine with that. In fact I fully support it.
If gays want to gain the full acceptance of everyday society and demand the government pass laws to prohibit people from thinking a certain way or even simply rejecting the gay lifestyle( which is what the more militant gay community wants to happen) , forget it. The government cannot legislate thought or beliefs. That happened in Orwell's book. It is a novel.

 

[The Rabbi]

OK, name one of those rights I want that no one else has.

The extension of marital rights to people of the same sex. I don't have that right. Why should you?

You DO realize that if I get that right, you will have that right too. Whether you choose to exercise that right or not would be up to you.


Surely you can do better than that. Try again.

Remind me why you should get that right again?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh...Now you're going to retort wiht "behavior group"?!!!!
The only distinction of sexuality is defined by which gender to which one is sexually attracted. The final deciding factor is sexual acts. That attraction and act are defined as "behavior". I consider it behavior because people can choose "to" or "not to" act in a certain way. Humans are at the top of the food chain. God gave us "self control".
Now, if anyone wishes to challenge that by saying, "gays can no more change their sexual preference than a white person can change the color of his skin", is true but not accurate.
Sex is an sct. Period. Skin pigmentation and heritage is permanent. Opps...Forgot about the late Michael Jackson..But he was a freak.

 

[DiveCon]

The extension of marital rights to people of the same sex. I don't have that right. Why should you?

You DO realize that if I get that right, you will have that right too. Whether you choose to exercise that right or not would be up to you.


Surely you can do better than that. Try again.

Remind me why you should get that right again?

shes a citizen of the US of A
and she served in the navy
need any better reasons?

 

[The Rabbi]

You DO realize that if I get that right, you will have that right too. Whether you choose to exercise that right or not would be up to you.


Surely you can do better than that. Try again.

Remind me why you should get that right again?

shes a citizen of the US of A
and she served in the navy
need any better reasons?

Lots of people are citizens. Lots of people served in the Navy. That isn't a reason to give people special rights.

 

[DiveCon]

Remind me why you should get that right again?

shes a citizen of the US of A
and she served in the navy
need any better reasons?

Lots of people are citizens. Lots of people served in the Navy. That isn't a reason to give people special rights.

how would it be a "special right" if you have the exact same right?

 

[bodecea]

Remind me why you should get that right again?

shes a citizen of the US of A
and she served in the navy
need any better reasons?

Lots of people are citizens. Lots of people served in the Navy. That isn't a reason to give people special rights.

Once again, I ask you to name some special rights we will get. Your first attempt was a Fail....isn't "special" if we BOTH get it.

 

[The Rabbi]

shes a citizen of the US of A
and she served in the navy
need any better reasons?

Lots of people are citizens. Lots of people served in the Navy. That isn't a reason to give people special rights.

how would it be a "special right" if you have the exact same right?

About like if I suddenly had the right to ride a horse.

 

[Dr Grump]

and you made a biased poll

or are you that fucking ignorant of the facts that you dont know that some churches do perform gay weddings?

(Bangs head against the wall) God, you are so stupid.

Ok, I'll say it slowly...

I DON"T CARE ABOUT CHURCHES AND GAY WEDDINGS. THIS IS THE PRINCIPLE OF: "AS A CONCEPT, DO YOU BELIEVE IN GAYS BEING ALLOWED TO BE MARRIED?" THAT IS ALL IT IS ABOUT. NO RIDERS. NO CAVEATS. NOTHING. ALL THE PERIPHERAL ISSUES HAVE BEEN PUT TO BED OR DISCUSSED AD INFINITUM. THIS POLL WAS THE DIRECT RESULT OF A SPECIFIC QUESTION IN ANOTHER THREAD. IF THE POLL QUESTION DOES NOT MEET WITH YOUR APPROVAL OR CRITERA DON'T FUCKING ANSWER.

SWEET JAYSUS....LAST TIME I EXPLAIN....

IF YOU WISH TO GET INTO THE INTRICASIES OF THE DEBATE, START ANOTHER THREAD.

AT THE END OF THE DAY IF I GO UP TO SOMEBODY AND SAY 'DO YOU BELIEVE IN GAY MARRIAGE', MOST WILL SAY YES OR NO, AND THEN GIVE AN EXPLANATION. I DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE EXPLANATION, JUST WHETHER THEIR GUT FEEL IS A YES OR NO, AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION IN THAT WAY...

Thank you...rant over...

 

[Dr Grump]

Oh...Now you're going to retort wiht "behavior group"?!!!!
The only distinction of sexuality is defined by which gender to which one is sexually attracted. The final deciding factor is sexual acts. That attraction and act are defined as "behavior". I consider it behavior because people can choose "to" or "not to" act in a certain way. Humans are at the top of the food chain. God gave us "self control".
Now, if anyone wishes to challenge that by saying, "gays can no more change their sexual preference than a white person can change the color of his skin", is true but not accurate.
Sex is an sct. Period. Skin pigmentation and heritage is permanent. Opps...Forgot about the late Michael Jackson..But he was a freak.

But where you argument falls apart is that would you deem it acceptable and reasonable for a hetrosexual to change their sexual behaviour? If not, then ditto a homosexual. I can choose not to eat, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.

Personally? I see the above as a strawman...

 

[bodecea]

Lots of people are citizens. Lots of people served in the Navy. That isn't a reason to give people special rights.

how would it be a "special right" if you have the exact same right?

About like if I suddenly had the right to ride a horse.

You do have the right to ride a horse...as do I, as does anyone else...ergo, it's not a "special" right.

Try again.

 

[DiveCon]

and you made a biased poll

or are you that fucking ignorant of the facts that you dont know that some churches do perform gay weddings?

(Bangs head against the wall) God, you are so stupid.

<stupidity removed>

no, your rant was what was stupid

 

[Dr Grump]

and you made a biased poll

or are you that fucking ignorant of the facts that you dont know that some churches do perform gay weddings?

(Bangs head against the wall) God, you are so stupid.

<stupidity removed>

no, your rant was what was stupid

No, you just have a comprehension problem....nothing new there...

 

[DiveCon]

(Bangs head against the wall) God, you are so stupid.

<stupidity removed>

no, your rant was what was stupid

No, you just have a comprehension problem....nothing new there...

if the government gets out oif the marriage business and only issues civil union contracts to everyone, how is that unfair?
and then churches(religious orgs of any kind) can set their own rules for "marriages" that contain no civil rights or benefits

and then the states wont be "vesting" any powers upon religious leaders in any way shape or form

 

[Dr Grump]

if the government gets out oif the marriage business and only issues civil union contracts to everyone, how is that unfair?
and then churches(religious orgs of any kind) can set their own rules for "marriages" that contain no civil rights or benefits

and then the states wont be "vesting" any powers upon religious leaders in any way shape or form

Your point is a valid one...but not for this poll....

 

[The Rabbi]

how would it be a "special right" if you have the exact same right?

About like if I suddenly had the right to ride a horse.

You do have the right to ride a horse...as do I, as does anyone else...ergo, it's not a "special" right.

Try again.

Actually I don't. There is no right to ride a horse. But if I did it would be pretty meaningless since I don't ride horses and am allergic to them. It would only benefit horse riders.
Ditto here.
Remind me why giving homosexuals special rights will benefit anyone, including society again?

 

[DiveCon]

if the government gets out oif the marriage business and only issues civil union contracts to everyone, how is that unfair?
and then churches(religious orgs of any kind) can set their own rules for "marriages" that contain no civil rights or benefits

and then the states wont be "vesting" any powers upon religious leaders in any way shape or form

Your point is a valid one...but not for this poll....

and that is why your poll is dishonest
it doesnt allow for those that share my opinion