Plan to ban automatic deduction of public employee union dues clears House panel

[danielpalos]

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

They aren't, in the Federal government. There are people graded GS-15 (highest GS grade) who are in the bargaining unit. There is no compensation difference.

The Senior Executive Service had a different system established by the Carter Administration. None of those positions could be in the bargaining unit because by definition they are management.

Here is something more along the lines of what i am referring to:

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions. By using one or two of the programs, many members save as much as their annual dues. Source: https://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=MemberBenefits&FuseAction=Info&BenefitID=12

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Federal employee unions are prohibited by law from bargaining for compensation and benefits.

Why do you say that? Is that why the post office has to has fund compensation liabilities, decades in advance?

Because it's true, for regular Feds in the competitive service in appropriated agencies.

The Post Office is different as they are an independent corporation.

My retirement program was established by Congress in the 1920s. Federal employee unions were given limited bargaining rights for the first time (and not for salaries and benefits) in the JFK Administration.

What Federal employee unions do is protect the slackers and manage office space moves and allocation.

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Because it's true, for regular Feds in the competitive service in appropriated agencies.

The Post Office is different as they are an independent corporation.

My retirement program was established by Congress in the 1920s. Federal employee unions were given limited bargaining rights for the first time (and not for salaries and benefits) in the JFK Administration.

What Federal employee unions do is protect the slackers and manage office space moves and allocation.

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

 

[danielpalos]

Why do you say that? Is that why the post office has to has fund compensation liabilities, decades in advance?

Because it's true, for regular Feds in the competitive service in appropriated agencies.

The Post Office is different as they are an independent corporation.

My retirement program was established by Congress in the 1920s. Federal employee unions were given limited bargaining rights for the first time (and not for salaries and benefits) in the JFK Administration.

What Federal employee unions do is protect the slackers and manage office space moves and allocation.

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

They aren't, in the Federal government. There are people graded GS-15 (highest GS grade) who are in the bargaining unit. There is no compensation difference.

The Senior Executive Service had a different system established by the Carter Administration. None of those positions could be in the bargaining unit because by definition they are management.

Here is something more along the lines of what i am referring to:

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions. By using one or two of the programs, many members save as much as their annual dues. Source: https://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=MemberBenefits&FuseAction=Info&BenefitID=12

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

 

[danielpalos]

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

no non-union jobs have ever paid the same as regular union jobs i have ever had; without it also being a prevailing wage job.

Why not get out of the village more often.

 

[danielpalos]

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

They aren't, in the Federal government. There are people graded GS-15 (highest GS grade) who are in the bargaining unit. There is no compensation difference.

The Senior Executive Service had a different system established by the Carter Administration. None of those positions could be in the bargaining unit because by definition they are management.

Here is something more along the lines of what i am referring to:

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions. By using one or two of the programs, many members save as much as their annual dues. Source: https://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=MemberBenefits&FuseAction=Info&BenefitID=12

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

Unions have lobbyists and lobby as well.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Because it's true, for regular Feds in the competitive service in appropriated agencies.

The Post Office is different as they are an independent corporation.

My retirement program was established by Congress in the 1920s. Federal employee unions were given limited bargaining rights for the first time (and not for salaries and benefits) in the JFK Administration.

What Federal employee unions do is protect the slackers and manage office space moves and allocation.

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

What benefits? They have a mortgage program available to their members? So what?

Retirement, health benefits, leave policies, due process, let alone pay, all set by Congress and available to all.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

no non-union jobs have ever paid the same as regular union jobs i have ever had; without it also being a prevailing wage job.

Why not get out of the village more often.

We are talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That IS the village we are talking about.

And, yes, the wages are the same. Exactly the same. The GS scale holds for union and non-union jobs.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

They aren't, in the Federal government. There are people graded GS-15 (highest GS grade) who are in the bargaining unit. There is no compensation difference.

The Senior Executive Service had a different system established by the Carter Administration. None of those positions could be in the bargaining unit because by definition they are management.

Here is something more along the lines of what i am referring to:

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions. By using one or two of the programs, many members save as much as their annual dues. Source: https://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=MemberBenefits&FuseAction=Info&BenefitID=12

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

Unions have lobbyists and lobby as well.

Yeah, well, they aren't very effective if you ask me.

 

[danielpalos]

If Congress can do what you claim; why any need for unions at all? shouldn't our federal Congress be able to merely legislate a capitalist Utopia from the federal district?

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

What benefits? They have a mortgage program available to their members? So what?

Retirement, health benefits, leave policies, due process, let alone pay, all set by Congress and available to all.

This page shows more than what you claim;

http://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=memberbenefits

There are even pet benefits available through that union. Are you sure you are not just a shill?

 

[danielpalos]

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

no non-union jobs have ever paid the same as regular union jobs i have ever had; without it also being a prevailing wage job.

Why not get out of the village more often.

We are talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That IS the village we are talking about.

And, yes, the wages are the same. Exactly the same. The GS scale holds for union and non-union jobs.

The federal government does not operate in the vacuum of the village special pleading.

 

[danielpalos]

Here is something more along the lines of what i am referring to:

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

Unions have lobbyists and lobby as well.

Yeah, well, they aren't very effective if you ask me.

why not; they got union members collective bargaining pay and benefits without the effort or cost, if what you claim is true.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

I'm talking about Federal employee unions, not private sector unions, which I agree that in many cases are needed.

Federal employee unions are worthless. Congress sets pay and benefits and the unions support loser employees and deal with stupid issues.

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

What benefits? They have a mortgage program available to their members? So what?

Retirement, health benefits, leave policies, due process, let alone pay, all set by Congress and available to all.

This page shows more than what you claim;

http://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=memberbenefits

There are even pet benefits available through that union. Are you sure you are not just a shill?

Pet insurance? Yeah, I have pet insurance.

It's not my gold-plated retirement, courtesy of the US Congress.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

As I said, the retirement system under which I am paid was established in the 1920s. The salary system, the GS system, was established in the 40s. The minimal changes made to it were to the management and executive ranks in the 70s and 80s.

So unions had nothing to do with either.

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

no non-union jobs have ever paid the same as regular union jobs i have ever had; without it also being a prevailing wage job.

Why not get out of the village more often.

We are talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That IS the village we are talking about.

And, yes, the wages are the same. Exactly the same. The GS scale holds for union and non-union jobs.

The federal government does not operate in the vacuum of the village special pleading.

Given its volume, it kinda does when it comes to personnel policy.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

So? That's not pay and benefits.

And AFGE is the WORST. Totally useless organization. Does nothing but degrade productivity and protect the worthless.

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

Unions have lobbyists and lobby as well.

Yeah, well, they aren't very effective if you ask me.

why not; they got union members collective bargaining pay and benefits without the effort or cost, if what you claim is true.

But they didn't, bozo.

The GS scale was established long before Federal employee unions. The GS scale was established in the 1940s.

Federal unions were granted limited collective bargaining rights in the Kennedy administration.

 

[danielpalos]

Are those pay and benefits fixed in a political a vacuum or in a market where other unions have established some metrics in our market based political-economy regarding compensation. And, you receive that compensation instead of non collectively bargained compensation.

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

What benefits? They have a mortgage program available to their members? So what?

Retirement, health benefits, leave policies, due process, let alone pay, all set by Congress and available to all.

This page shows more than what you claim;

http://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=memberbenefits

There are even pet benefits available through that union. Are you sure you are not just a shill?

Pet insurance? Yeah, I have pet insurance.

It's not my gold-plated retirement, courtesy of the US Congress.

Where does Congress get its metrics for compensation information?

did you check this section:

Retiree Benefits

 

[danielpalos]

why are wage scales usually different for union labor than for non union labor?

No. Exactly the same.

no non-union jobs have ever paid the same as regular union jobs i have ever had; without it also being a prevailing wage job.

Why not get out of the village more often.

We are talking about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. That IS the village we are talking about.

And, yes, the wages are the same. Exactly the same. The GS scale holds for union and non-union jobs.

The federal government does not operate in the vacuum of the village special pleading.

Given its volume, it kinda does when it comes to personnel policy.

No, it doesn't since it is not a private sector generating private sector market based metrics under our form of Capitalism, even if Only for Eminent Domain purposes.

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, it is about benefits if not pay.

Congress also authorized the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program, established the retirement systems (CSRS, effective from the 1920s till 1984 and FERS, its successor), and also sets by law, annual and sick leave policies. Also, due process in adverse actions.

All of these are the same whether you are a lowly GS-2 clerk typist or Lois Lerner, Senior Executive.

Unions had nothing to do with it.

Unions have lobbyists and lobby as well.

Yeah, well, they aren't very effective if you ask me.

why not; they got union members collective bargaining pay and benefits without the effort or cost, if what you claim is true.

But they didn't, bozo.

The GS scale was established long before Federal employee unions. The GS scale was established in the 1940s.

Federal unions were granted limited collective bargaining rights in the Kennedy administration.

Granting rights and exercising rights are two different things; shill.

 

[AmericanGirl05]

The Federal Government employs 2 million people. Job announcements for Federal jobs generate literally, thousands of applicants. If you think that any other entity can compete with that, you are a fool.

I am not the one resorting to fallacies while claiming I am for the "gospel Truth".

When you join the union, you have access to these AFGE benefits. These benefits are backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members of AFL-CIO unions.

What benefits? They have a mortgage program available to their members? So what?

Retirement, health benefits, leave policies, due process, let alone pay, all set by Congress and available to all.

This page shows more than what you claim;

http://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=memberbenefits

There are even pet benefits available through that union. Are you sure you are not just a shill?

Pet insurance? Yeah, I have pet insurance.

It's not my gold-plated retirement, courtesy of the US Congress.

Where does Congress get its metrics for compensation information?

did you check this section:

Retiree Benefits

I can get insurance and investment advice from any number of sources. I don't need a union.

Secondly, every Federal retiree can participate in FEHBP for their Medicare supplement (actually, it replaces Parts B and D). You don't need AFGE for that.