Pagan roots of Valentines (Lupercalia) Day Exposed

[Book of Jeremiah]

one does not have to BELIEVE in a divine being to believe that the bible is
a document that recounts a real history-----One does not have to believe that
Zeus is married to Hera----to believe that Odysseus and pals attacked Troy

No, but one does need verifiable, accurate evidence outside of the book itself. Keep in mind, I mean evidence of the events, not the places. For instance, they have found evidence of Glastonbury Tor. Does that meant that Arthur, his knights, and the "Great Merlin" existed? Absolutely not. There is simply no corroborating evidence for the Bible.

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

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Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

 

[Czernobog]

Oh my! I'm sorry. What a scary world you live in. I do not live in a world filled with evil. I live in a world filled with beauty, and wonder. A world, granted, that is filled with people who are selfish, stupid, shortsighted, and entirely unpredictable. However, I don't need some supernatural b3eing to protect me from them. I have the law, and society for that. But an "evil world"/ No. I do not live in such a place. I am sorry that you do. I can understand why you eed your God to protect you. I hope he does so.

I'm not afraid because I am a child of God and according to Luke 10:19 God has given me authority over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means harm me. But we do live in a world that is (as you say) filled with people who are selfish, stupid, shortsighted and entirely unpredictable. Now you say that you do not need some supernatural being to protect you from them. That you have the law and society for that. But I have a question for you. What happens if a witch that is more powerful than you are comes into your territory and tries to take over and drive you out through their own warfare against you and you are losing the battle? What do you then? Move to another city? What if it happens there? Whose going to protect you when your life is in danger?

But I should be afraid? What happens if a what does who?!?! You've been playing too much D&D, my friend. What do you think witches are? Wolves that piss on the ground and stake out territory? It doesn't work that way. Not outside of a fantasy novel, anyway. LOL

I would never have anything to do with Dungeons and Dragons role playing game as it is a doorway to demonic oppression / possession and there are young people who have died while involved in that deadly game. Through their involvement with Dungeons and Dragons people can become demonically controlled without realizing what is happening to them. Sadly some schools have even permitted these games to be played as a part of extracurricular clubs. Such games are a crash course in witchcraft.

Interesting that you should bring that particular game up. I have tried to warn people on this board about that game but they do not see the danger. For those who are not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it is a game portrayed as an adventure where many battles are fought with various monsters and beings, each having certain abilities and characteristics. There are manuals available with many pictures and details about these different characters.

The players are supposed to visualize the action of the game in their minds. The better they become at "seeing" and anticipating the moves of their opponent the more advanced they become in the game. These "monsters" are actually real demons. What they are visualizing in their minds is what they are actually beginning to see in the spirit world. The spirit world is real and there are people here on this board who will readily admit to that fact. The imagination is a key stepping stone to contact with the spirit world and as the player continues in this D & D game they become infested with demons. There are more advanced manuals that detail spells, incantations and demonic writing that is used and taught to the witches and warlocks of The Brotherhood itslef. (that is an organization known to some Witches but likely not known to those who do not know about the occult). Higher level players of D & D have admitted to conversing with these beings (demons) and even inviting these demons into them for greater powers.

So if the reader can imagine that D & D would be like the crash course in witchcraft, the battles that take place over territory, disputes among witches, warlocks is very real and in some cases ends with the death of the one with the weaker powers. Satan's kingdom is highly organized. There are territories and there are people in certain positions of authority in those territories and there are on occasion battles for those territories and the power over those territories.

For an example, there is a testimony of a Doctor who worked at a hospital in the intensive care unit. She was a Christian and the Lord had permitted her to stand in the gap (she prayed daily) for the hospital and the city according to Ezekiel 22:30-31 as the city and hospital had a number of powerful witches in it.

This Doctor had encountered patients who were dying because they were under attack by a very powerful group of witches. In fact, there were high level witches working in that hospital and in the department she worked in. Their prayers against the doctor didn't work (because she was a Christian) but against those who were targeted and also against those involved in the occult who became sick and ended up in that hospital, things were taking a turn for the worse.

One by one the Doctor interceded for them and God did a great work but in one particular case a man (who was a witch although he denied this) was in great danger and was quickly fading. He had been in a battle with a more powerful witch over a territory. She had come across many patients afflicted by witchcraft attacks before so she knew what she was seeing.

She did tell the man but at first what God had revealed to her about him but he denied it and said she was crazy (this is a common reaction from people in witchcraft- to accuse someone who knows what is going on of being crazy - because the occult is a hidden society and these people are very guarded about revealing what they are involved in - secrecy is a rule that is taken very seriously).

Later, when he was on the verge of dying and had become desperate he admitted to her it was true. She asked him if she could pray for him and while I am writing about this story from memory I do recall that when the doctor prayed for him he was completely healed and knew that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who had healed him!

It seems to me as I recall that this man who was healed decided not accept Jesus Christ as his savior even after God saving his life but chose to move to another city as he could not stay in the same city with the more powerful witch who had almost killed him. It is sad to say that not everyone who sees the power of God and even knows God saved their life, is willing to give up witchcraft. What they do not realize is that ultimately it will lead to their eternal destruction.

Thank you for reading. I hope to return later (God willing) and continue the discussion.

Dude...I am so not going down another rabbit hole with you. The point is that you seem to have this concept of witches, and witchcraft that belongs in a fantasy novel, not the real world. Allow me to clue you in. I am 50 years old. Do you know how many magickal battles I have been in during my life? Exactly. Zero. It just doesn't work that way in the real world.

I'm not asking you to go down any rabbit hole, Cern. I merely responded to your reply because what you said was not accurate. In response to your claim that I have a concept about witches and witchcraft that belong in a fantasy novel, I have to tell you that this isn't my concept. What I've given you is the testimonies of people who have prayed for people in witchcraft who have come under attack through spells, hexes, psychic attacks, etc. You say that you have never been in a magickal battle with anyone.

Have you ever been under a psychic attack from another witch? Have you ever been the recipient of someone trying to harm you through witchcraft? Have you ever tried to harm anyone by using a spell to retaliate in response to something that someone did to you? You need not answer those questions I am merely clarifying what I meant in my recounting the testimony of a doctor who ministered to people in a hospital where she witnessed and encountered patients who had come under such an attack.

In fact, there is a former high level Witch named Bill Schnoebelen who wrote an entire book about Wicca. It's called Wicca, Satan's little lie and is available online. Bill states that in his experience as a witch this was a constant problem. He didn't call them magickal battles. He called them psychic attacks / pyschic wars. In his book Bill writes about his coven and the trouble of Witches covens in psychic wars that plagued his city:

But we were never really at peace. We did all the right things and tried to help our people grow, but they never seemed fulfilled either. They acted happy, but their eyes were dark and hollow. They said they were fulfilled but their lives denied it. We were the ONLY married couple in Wicca that didn't get divorced!

Sadly, a majority of the people we tried to help got worse! Many of them became either so filled with their own egos that they could not relate to anyone else or they sank into the mire of drugs or liquor. To or three went quite insane!

in Milwaukee, we had psychic wars between groups. Witches were shooting at each other in the streets because of adultery. Curses were filling the air like mosquitos on a hot Wisconsin night!

Pagans like to make fun of Catholics because of all the wars they started, but the only difference between the Pagans and the Catholics is that the Pagans never ran a government and had the power to raise armies.

I used to read THE GREEN EGG, Tim Zell's Neo-Pagan magazine. Almost every issue contained a vicious feud in the letter columns.

Why? Because you are dealing with sinful, fallen human beings,that's why! God says the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9).

You may not call yourself a Satanist, but if you have not made Jesus Christ your Lord and Master,then Satan is your lord and master. We learned this the hard way! - Bill Schoenbelen Wicca Satan's little White Lie

So there you have it. One man who was the head of a coven in Wisconsin and a very powerful witch who gave his life to Jesus Christ and says that these feuds between witches /covens was a major problem.

Well, I can only speak fro my personal experience, 20 years as a wytch. Have I ever tried to harm anyone? Nope. Not that I haven't been tempted. I have just never been in a situation in which it was worth it. Have you, in all your studies, ever heard of the Witch's Rede? There are two lines that are important, in regards to this discussion:

"Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.", and "These Eight words the Rede fulfill: 'An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will'"

Now, a lot of your bubblegum, fluffy-bununy witches will insisthat this is a warning to never hurt anyone. However, that is simply not the case. The finally line is pretty self-explanatory - if you are not hurting anyone, you do you. It's all good. Okay. However, remember when I said that humans are notoriously short-sighted? Well, that is pretty much true of all of us.n So, here is the question: How do you know? How do you know if an action you take, whether magickal, or mundane (and, no, the Rede is not restricted to only magickal actions; it is a guide for every decision that a wytch ever makes), is going to hurt someone one? The simple answer is, you can't. Oh! You can be certain about the immediate effects of any choice, but what about the longer effects, what about the effect it has on peripheral individuals that you didn't think of, or possibly know about? So, does this mean that a wytch can never do anything?

This is where the second line comes into play - the 'three-fold law". The three-fold law is pretty straight forward. Anything you do, whether for good, or for ill, will come back to you three times over. The Hindus called it Kharma. Even the Jews have a version of it, although they expand it to 7-fold. But, it's a pretty universal concept. So, now the question becomes, if what I want to do worth the consequences? If it is, go for it. Just be aware that you made a choice, and what comes next is entirely on you. If it isn't, then don't.

This brings us back to your question have I ever harmed anyone. I have, in 30 years, only intentionally harmed one person, and that was indirectly. And I paid the price for it. Willingly. Now, have I unintentionally harmed anyone? Possibly. Like I said, my ability to follow my actions to the results of every single person that those actions will ever have an effect on is limited. See, contrary to what you may believe, witchcraft isn't about power. It is about balance, and personal responsibility.

 

[Czernobog]

And this is the point at which we are done. "You are wrong. I don't know how, but you must be, because otherwise, I am, and I can't be,"

I'm sure that we will have other interesting conversations. However, you should know that nothing you have told me has been original. You, based on your posts to me, presume that I have always been a pagan, or non-Christian, and that I never considered the possibility of being a Christian. Actually the exact opposite is true. I am not some lost soul who never had the benefit of Christianity; I am a Christian who came to understand that Christianity is...flawed at best.

And here is the thing. I may be completely full of shit, and have no idea what I am talking about. When I die, I may well meet this God of yours, and learn that I got it exactly wrong. Should that happen, I will happily take my place in Hell, in the knowledge that I made my choice fully cognizant of the consequences should I be wrong about my conclusions.

God forbid. Do not say that. You will not happily take your place in Hell! It is a horrific place and you don't want to go there! How could I presume that you were always Pagan if you went to Seminary? Surely you must have been very serious about your desire to know God if you went to the trouble to go to Seminary but as you may well have found most are more like a "cemetery" and in that I mean the teachers have a head knowledge but they do not know God. As the bible says, Knowledge puffeth up.

You've taken a turn away from God but clearly that turn happened with the help of some instructor who did not benefit you in your walk with God. How can you know if what you are hearing is from God and is true, Cern? I will tell you what I have learned about it. If by listening to them I feel drawn closer to God, I know it is Him. And if by listening to them I feel further away from God, I know it is not Him and they will do me no good. I am speaking about those who are supposed to be bible teachers, Pastors, etc. I have found that not all Pastors know God and some would lead you to backslide if you stayed in their churches they are so far from God themselves! I am watching the video in its entirety before showing it to you because I have to make sure it is the right one and I am not yet certain of it. When I am certain I will post it for you. I hope to speak to you again. Goodnight.

You presume that I accept the existence of divinity (God). I do not. Enjoy your video. Good night.

This is interesting. I knew the video I was looking for showed both the altar Moses made and the rock at Horeb which Moses struck and which gushed with water and showed the evidence of the smoothness of the stones from the water flow. I could not find the original video but I found this one which appears to be a remake of the original as it has less than a hundred views! I found it this morning. Considering that the area is extremely arid we know this wear on the rock from water couldn't have occurred by rain. You can see where the water flowed from the rock down into the terrain and also shows where it pooled up which would have been enough water to refresh all the Hebrews - the whole nation of God's people whom he did deliver from Egypt! How awesome is my God that he did this for his people. I'm truly amazed by this archaelogical find. Toward the end you will find her explaining the Hebrew word for certain word in scripture to explain further what you are seeing. I mention it as you have shown an interest in the Hebrew language. Enjoy!

You get that just because someone is standing in front of a big rock somewhere, claiming it to be something from the Bible, that doesn't make it evidence, right? When I am talking about archeological evidence, I mean actual verifiable, peer-reviewed evidence.

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This isn't the only video about these archaelogical discoveries. There are quite a few people online that discuss these two discoveries, Moses altar and the rock Moses struck where water gushed out. Many people have found these discoveries to be very significant, Cern. Many people believe that the discovery aligns perfectly with the Scriptures in the bible that give the account of the water which flowed out of the rock at Horeb. Could it be that you are looking for reasons not to believe that God delivered the Hebrews who were in Egypt, that Moses was chosen by God to lead them to the promised land (Israel) and that the Hebrews did wander in the wilderness for 40 years? Could it be that there is a reason you don't want to believe that the Hebrews were held captive in Egypt? God caused the water to come out of the rock of Horeb for his people because they were thirsty. They were 3 days in the desert with no water. They were very thirsty and God performed this miracle for them. God's miracles demonstrate His great power but truly if you look at creation, the moon,the stars, the earth, the universe, all of this was created by God. My God is the creator of heaven and earth. Nothing is too difficult for My God.

It is your choice to not believe it because you couldn't see a peer review but I do not recall anyone else ever asking for one. It simply wouldn't have any bearing in this case. The evidence is right before your very eyes in the video and it is confirmed in Scripture. To a "T"!

There are. You're right. I looked. And all of them have one thing in common. They all proceed from a religious institution, with an agenda of confirming the bias of the Bible as a legitimate source. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that not one single secular archeologist has confirmed the "findings" of all of these religious scholars?

 

[Czernobog]

one does not have to BELIEVE in a divine being to believe that the bible is
a document that recounts a real history-----One does not have to believe that
Zeus is married to Hera----to believe that Odysseus and pals attacked Troy

No, but one does need verifiable, accurate evidence outside of the book itself. Keep in mind, I mean evidence of the events, not the places. For instance, they have found evidence of Glastonbury Tor. Does that meant that Arthur, his knights, and the "Great Merlin" existed? Absolutely not. There is simply no corroborating evidence for the Bible.

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

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Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

 

[Czernobog]

Tell me something, Jeremiah. After reading your posts, are you a Biblical literalist?

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[irosie91]

one does not have to BELIEVE in a divine being to believe that the bible is
a document that recounts a real history-----One does not have to believe that
Zeus is married to Hera----to believe that Odysseus and pals attacked Troy

No, but one does need verifiable, accurate evidence outside of the book itself. Keep in mind, I mean evidence of the events, not the places. For instance, they have found evidence of Glastonbury Tor. Does that meant that Arthur, his knights, and the "Great Merlin" existed? Absolutely not. There is simply no corroborating evidence for the Bible.

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

 

[Czernobog]

No, but one does need verifiable, accurate evidence outside of the book itself. Keep in mind, I mean evidence of the events, not the places. For instance, they have found evidence of Glastonbury Tor. Does that meant that Arthur, his knights, and the "Great Merlin" existed? Absolutely not. There is simply no corroborating evidence for the Bible.

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

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[Book of Jeremiah]

I'm not afraid because I am a child of God and according to Luke 10:19 God has given me authority over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means harm me. But we do live in a world that is (as you say) filled with people who are selfish, stupid, shortsighted and entirely unpredictable. Now you say that you do not need some supernatural being to protect you from them. That you have the law and society for that. But I have a question for you. What happens if a witch that is more powerful than you are comes into your territory and tries to take over and drive you out through their own warfare against you and you are losing the battle? What do you then? Move to another city? What if it happens there? Whose going to protect you when your life is in danger?

But I should be afraid? What happens if a what does who?!?! You've been playing too much D&D, my friend. What do you think witches are? Wolves that piss on the ground and stake out territory? It doesn't work that way. Not outside of a fantasy novel, anyway. LOL

I would never have anything to do with Dungeons and Dragons role playing game as it is a doorway to demonic oppression / possession and there are young people who have died while involved in that deadly game. Through their involvement with Dungeons and Dragons people can become demonically controlled without realizing what is happening to them. Sadly some schools have even permitted these games to be played as a part of extracurricular clubs. Such games are a crash course in witchcraft.

Interesting that you should bring that particular game up. I have tried to warn people on this board about that game but they do not see the danger. For those who are not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, it is a game portrayed as an adventure where many battles are fought with various monsters and beings, each having certain abilities and characteristics. There are manuals available with many pictures and details about these different characters.

The players are supposed to visualize the action of the game in their minds. The better they become at "seeing" and anticipating the moves of their opponent the more advanced they become in the game. These "monsters" are actually real demons. What they are visualizing in their minds is what they are actually beginning to see in the spirit world. The spirit world is real and there are people here on this board who will readily admit to that fact. The imagination is a key stepping stone to contact with the spirit world and as the player continues in this D & D game they become infested with demons. There are more advanced manuals that detail spells, incantations and demonic writing that is used and taught to the witches and warlocks of The Brotherhood itslef. (that is an organization known to some Witches but likely not known to those who do not know about the occult). Higher level players of D & D have admitted to conversing with these beings (demons) and even inviting these demons into them for greater powers.

So if the reader can imagine that D & D would be like the crash course in witchcraft, the battles that take place over territory, disputes among witches, warlocks is very real and in some cases ends with the death of the one with the weaker powers. Satan's kingdom is highly organized. There are territories and there are people in certain positions of authority in those territories and there are on occasion battles for those territories and the power over those territories.

For an example, there is a testimony of a Doctor who worked at a hospital in the intensive care unit. She was a Christian and the Lord had permitted her to stand in the gap (she prayed daily) for the hospital and the city according to Ezekiel 22:30-31 as the city and hospital had a number of powerful witches in it.

This Doctor had encountered patients who were dying because they were under attack by a very powerful group of witches. In fact, there were high level witches working in that hospital and in the department she worked in. Their prayers against the doctor didn't work (because she was a Christian) but against those who were targeted and also against those involved in the occult who became sick and ended up in that hospital, things were taking a turn for the worse.

One by one the Doctor interceded for them and God did a great work but in one particular case a man (who was a witch although he denied this) was in great danger and was quickly fading. He had been in a battle with a more powerful witch over a territory. She had come across many patients afflicted by witchcraft attacks before so she knew what she was seeing.

She did tell the man but at first what God had revealed to her about him but he denied it and said she was crazy (this is a common reaction from people in witchcraft- to accuse someone who knows what is going on of being crazy - because the occult is a hidden society and these people are very guarded about revealing what they are involved in - secrecy is a rule that is taken very seriously).

Later, when he was on the verge of dying and had become desperate he admitted to her it was true. She asked him if she could pray for him and while I am writing about this story from memory I do recall that when the doctor prayed for him he was completely healed and knew that it was the Lord Jesus Christ who had healed him!

It seems to me as I recall that this man who was healed decided not accept Jesus Christ as his savior even after God saving his life but chose to move to another city as he could not stay in the same city with the more powerful witch who had almost killed him. It is sad to say that not everyone who sees the power of God and even knows God saved their life, is willing to give up witchcraft. What they do not realize is that ultimately it will lead to their eternal destruction.

Thank you for reading. I hope to return later (God willing) and continue the discussion.

Dude...I am so not going down another rabbit hole with you. The point is that you seem to have this concept of witches, and witchcraft that belongs in a fantasy novel, not the real world. Allow me to clue you in. I am 50 years old. Do you know how many magickal battles I have been in during my life? Exactly. Zero. It just doesn't work that way in the real world.

I'm not asking you to go down any rabbit hole, Cern. I merely responded to your reply because what you said was not accurate. In response to your claim that I have a concept about witches and witchcraft that belong in a fantasy novel, I have to tell you that this isn't my concept. What I've given you is the testimonies of people who have prayed for people in witchcraft who have come under attack through spells, hexes, psychic attacks, etc. You say that you have never been in a magickal battle with anyone.

Have you ever been under a psychic attack from another witch? Have you ever been the recipient of someone trying to harm you through witchcraft? Have you ever tried to harm anyone by using a spell to retaliate in response to something that someone did to you? You need not answer those questions I am merely clarifying what I meant in my recounting the testimony of a doctor who ministered to people in a hospital where she witnessed and encountered patients who had come under such an attack.

In fact, there is a former high level Witch named Bill Schnoebelen who wrote an entire book about Wicca. It's called Wicca, Satan's little lie and is available online. Bill states that in his experience as a witch this was a constant problem. He didn't call them magickal battles. He called them psychic attacks / pyschic wars. In his book Bill writes about his coven and the trouble of Witches covens in psychic wars that plagued his city:

But we were never really at peace. We did all the right things and tried to help our people grow, but they never seemed fulfilled either. They acted happy, but their eyes were dark and hollow. They said they were fulfilled but their lives denied it. We were the ONLY married couple in Wicca that didn't get divorced!

Sadly, a majority of the people we tried to help got worse! Many of them became either so filled with their own egos that they could not relate to anyone else or they sank into the mire of drugs or liquor. To or three went quite insane!

in Milwaukee, we had psychic wars between groups. Witches were shooting at each other in the streets because of adultery. Curses were filling the air like mosquitos on a hot Wisconsin night!

Pagans like to make fun of Catholics because of all the wars they started, but the only difference between the Pagans and the Catholics is that the Pagans never ran a government and had the power to raise armies.

I used to read THE GREEN EGG, Tim Zell's Neo-Pagan magazine. Almost every issue contained a vicious feud in the letter columns.

Why? Because you are dealing with sinful, fallen human beings,that's why! God says the human heart is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9).

You may not call yourself a Satanist, but if you have not made Jesus Christ your Lord and Master,then Satan is your lord and master. We learned this the hard way! - Bill Schoenbelen Wicca Satan's little White Lie

So there you have it. One man who was the head of a coven in Wisconsin and a very powerful witch who gave his life to Jesus Christ and says that these feuds between witches /covens was a major problem.

Well, I can only speak fro my personal experience, 20 years as a wytch. Have I ever tried to harm anyone? Nope. Not that I haven't been tempted. I have just never been in a situation in which it was worth it. Have you, in all your studies, ever heard of the Witch's Rede? There are two lines that are important, in regards to this discussion:

"Mind the Three-fold Laws you should three times bad and three times good.", and "These Eight words the Rede fulfill: 'An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will'"

Now, a lot of your bubblegum, fluffy-bununy witches will insisthat this is a warning to never hurt anyone. However, that is simply not the case. The finally line is pretty self-explanatory - if you are not hurting anyone, you do you. It's all good. Okay. However, remember when I said that humans are notoriously short-sighted? Well, that is pretty much true of all of us.n So, here is the question: How do you know? How do you know if an action you take, whether magickal, or mundane (and, no, the Rede is not restricted to only magickal actions; it is a guide for every decision that a wytch ever makes), is going to hurt someone one? The simple answer is, you can't. Oh! You can be certain about the immediate effects of any choice, but what about the longer effects, what about the effect it has on peripheral individuals that you didn't think of, or possibly know about? So, does this mean that a wytch can never do anything?

This is where the second line comes into play - the 'three-fold law". The three-fold law is pretty straight forward. Anything you do, whether for good, or for ill, will come back to you three times over. The Hindus called it Kharma. Even the Jews have a version of it, although they expand it to 7-fold. But, it's a pretty universal concept. So, now the question becomes, if what I want to do worth the consequences? If it is, go for it. Just be aware that you made a choice, and what comes next is entirely on you. If it isn't, then don't.

This brings us back to your question have I ever harmed anyone. I have, in 30 years, only intentionally harmed one person, and that was indirectly. And I paid the price for it. Willingly. Now, have I unintentionally harmed anyone? Possibly. Like I said, my ability to follow my actions to the results of every single person that those actions will ever have an effect on is limited. See, contrary to what you may believe, witchcraft isn't about power. It is about balance, and personal responsibility.

I have read about the three fold law and the Witch's Rede from reading the books of a former Witch who is now a Christian. I am glad to hear that in 20 years you never tried to harm anyone. Surely the Lord has noticed that about you and of the one time you intentionally harmed a person, who of us can say we have never harmed a single person in our life? I don't think that is possible, Cern.

Also for harming others without realizing it. This may be of interest.. I do not know if you have perhaps ever heard of this but there are Christians who have prayed soulish prayers out of the latent power of their souls and caused harm to others. Their prayers were not for God's will to be done or to bless someone but rather specific prayers for THEIR will to be done and this too is witchcraft although you'd be hard pressed to get them to realize this. Watchman Nee writes about it in his book, Latent Power of the Soul.

This is why Christians should never pray their own will be done, it is a form of control which is witchcraft. I have also experienced attacks in the spirit realm from people who were hating me and in one specific case it was from a person who said they were a Christian but I never saw any evidence of it. I knew that what I was experiencing (similar to a psychic attack) was coming from that person because of their hatred towards me and their evil words which the Bible describes evil words as swords or arrows.

As I am a Christian who has met quite a few Christians in my life, I can tell you that many do not realize that the words they are speaking are life or death. Christians should bless with their tongues and not curse.

 

[irosie91]

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

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Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

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It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

 

[Czernobog]

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

No. However, it does appear in contemporary records - particularly Roman - describing the area. However, those records do not refer to what modern maps label as Saudi Arabia.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

one does not have to BELIEVE in a divine being to believe that the bible is
a document that recounts a real history-----One does not have to believe that
Zeus is married to Hera----to believe that Odysseus and pals attacked Troy

No, but one does need verifiable, accurate evidence outside of the book itself. Keep in mind, I mean evidence of the events, not the places. For instance, they have found evidence of Glastonbury Tor. Does that meant that Arthur, his knights, and the "Great Merlin" existed? Absolutely not. There is simply no corroborating evidence for the Bible.

I did not suggest that the events PROVE a deity-----I am fascinated with ancient
writings and their VALUE because they are the TRUE WORKINGS of the human
mind-------not just gibberish (like your output)

Unless by "value" you mean their literary value, then these ancient writings have no value if their veracity cannot be confirmed.

I have no problem with the Bible as a literary work, not unlike the Etta, the writings of Homer, or any other ancient mythology. I have a problem with anyone suggesting that the Bible is a valid archeological tool.

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

This is what I know, Cern. I know that the Word of God is true and that Moses struck that rock and that because he struck it in anger he wasn't able to enter the promise land. What a huge lesson that should be and keep in mind that God gave Moses the highest of compliments (in my belief) by recording in Scripture that Moses was the meekest man upon the earth. Can you imagine God saying that about you? I'm sure Moses wept when he first heard about it. If Moses could get angry? Anyone could and that is why people should not get too tired, too hungry, too lonely or too angry. It's good to take a break and rest and think on things of good report that lift the spirit.

I believe the Word of God not only for what it says and what I see but for what God has put on the inside of me. There is nothing that could ever deter me from believing that the Jews are God's chosen people, his natural children. There is nothing that could ever deter me from believing that Israel is their land and that God did give it to them (through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). There is nothing that could ever dissuade me from believing the testimony of Moses. Every word is true. My spirit bears witness with this.

I hope to return later this evening. This has been a very interesting discussion and of course Rosie is a blessing to have here as she is Jewish and knows quite a lot about the history of her people, the middle east and the Holy Scriptures!

 

[irosie91]

Do you believe that a map is a valid archeological tool? Do you believe that written, authenticated documents are a valid archaelogical tool? Because in the case of the Rock at Horeb and Moses altar the Bible is an outstanding map as are the Scriptures documented to tell the story of what happened.

Would you consider engraved stones telling a story inside some ancient finding to be of importance? Than truly you cannot discount the Bible which is the most accurate, intact book of antiquity in the world.

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

No. However, it does appear in contemporary records - particularly Roman - describing the area. However, those records do not refer to what modern maps label as Saudi Arabia.

rome had a word which is "Arabia"? I did not know The word ARABIA---as
far as I know it is very vague. ------it seems to me to refer to some places off in the
distance------like the HORIZON in semitic languages. In very recent times it somehow got to be the SOUTHERN part of a big patch of land that was at one time called "ARABIA". Yemen used to be part of "ARABIA"

 

[Divine Wind]

Where did Valentines Day come from? Do you know the history of it? Did you know that it has nothing to do with a saint named Valentine and is really based on the worship of Nimrod and is celebrating a feast called Lupercalia? Should Christians celebrate Valentines Day when it is clearly a pagan holiday that is an abomination before God? God warns us in His Word to have nothing to do with Pagan rituals, feasts and the worship of false gods. Many do not know the pagan roots of Valentines.

​

Watch this informative video and look up the bible scriptures provided that will prove that Lupercalia (Valentine's day) is a day Christians should have nothing to do with.

Awesome! Now do Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny.

 

[Divine Wind]

Except it's not. In fact, I can show you evidence that the place where modern religious archeologists place Mt. Sinai is inaccurate, and thus the rock thatey claim is Horeb can't be:

Arabia in Jesus' time means the Nabatean Kingdom, NOT Saudi Arabia

In other words, the site in Saudi Arabia that is accepted by religious archeologists as Mt. Sinai, isn't. And that is just one example of the errors made, trying to use the Bible as your guide to archeology, particularly when trying to match them with modern places.

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

No. However, it does appear in contemporary records - particularly Roman - describing the area. However, those records do not refer to what modern maps label as Saudi Arabia.

rome had a word which is "Arabia"? I did not know The word ARABIA---as
far as I know it is very vague. ------it seems to me to refer to some places off in the
distance------like the HORIZON in semitic languages. In very recent times it somehow got to be the SOUTHERN part of a big patch of land that was at one time called "ARABIA". Yemen used to be part of "ARABIA"

The Moorish Empire.

 

[Vastator]

A lot of work for someone bitter because they never got a Valentines card or flowers or candy in their life.

Nonsense. I do not have anything to do with Satanic feast days. I do not celebrate October 31st either. If you do, you are ignoring the word of God which warns you that those who celebrate such things have put themselves under a curse.

If you celebrate December 25... You're celebrating a pagan holiday. Lock, stock, and barrel.

 

[Czernobog]

can you show me where in the bible "ARABIA" is mentioned?

Did I say that it was?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

No. However, it does appear in contemporary records - particularly Roman - describing the area. However, those records do not refer to what modern maps label as Saudi Arabia.

rome had a word which is "Arabia"? I did not know The word ARABIA---as
far as I know it is very vague. ------it seems to me to refer to some places off in the
distance------like the HORIZON in semitic languages. In very recent times it somehow got to be the SOUTHERN part of a big patch of land that was at one time called "ARABIA". Yemen used to be part of "ARABIA"

The Moorish Empire.

Well, to be fair, the Moors were about 600 years later...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[Divine Wind]

Did I say that it was?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

It is not at all clear to me why you mentioned "ARABIA" in the time
of Jesus-------the term "Arabia" does not appear in the NT----or the OT

No. However, it does appear in contemporary records - particularly Roman - describing the area. However, those records do not refer to what modern maps label as Saudi Arabia.

rome had a word which is "Arabia"? I did not know The word ARABIA---as
far as I know it is very vague. ------it seems to me to refer to some places off in the
distance------like the HORIZON in semitic languages. In very recent times it somehow got to be the SOUTHERN part of a big patch of land that was at one time called "ARABIA". Yemen used to be part of "ARABIA"

The Moorish Empire.

Well, to be fair, the Moors were about 600 years later...

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

True just as the Romans followed Alexander the Great.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Tell me something, Jeremiah. After reading your posts, are you a Biblical literalist?

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

Yes, I am although I must tell you that I find it strange that people (quite a few) are using this term as if a Believer taking the Bible literally were an abberation. A believer is someone who believes. I believe what I read in the Word of God. If I didn't there would be no point at all to prayer. How can one be a believer in God and not take His Word literally? Is there any other way to take it but literally? How would you feel if I told others not to take you literally? I find the question must be an offense to God because He says what he means and means what he says. I have always taken God's Holy Bible literally. There is no other way to take it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

A lot of work for someone bitter because they never got a Valentines card or flowers or candy in their life.

Nonsense. I do not have anything to do with Satanic feast days. I do not celebrate October 31st either. If you do, you are ignoring the word of God which warns you that those who celebrate such things have put themselves under a curse.

If you celebrate December 25... You're celebrating a pagan holiday. Lock, stock, and barrel.

I agree with you. I don't celebrate it anymore. I try to be gracious to those who do but I want no part of it for myself.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Where did Valentines Day come from? Do you know the history of it? Did you know that it has nothing to do with a saint named Valentine and is really based on the worship of Nimrod and is celebrating a feast called Lupercalia? Should Christians celebrate Valentines Day when it is clearly a pagan holiday that is an abomination before God? God warns us in His Word to have nothing to do with Pagan rituals, feasts and the worship of false gods. Many do not know the pagan roots of Valentines.

​

Watch this informative video and look up the bible scriptures provided that will prove that Lupercalia (Valentine's day) is a day Christians should have nothing to do with.

Awesome! Now do Christmas trees and the Easter Bunny.

We should do that. I agree.