Optimum Minimum Wages can be calculated

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nobody earns a median wage, they earn a wage.
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would reduce your wages? Why?
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would be inflationary? Why?

and increase the incidences and extents of poverty in our nation.

If you're worth $10/hour, why would eliminating the current federal minimum wage of $7.25 harm you?

You don't seem to appreciate what competitive markets can or cannot do.

You don't seem to appreciate what government mandates can or cannot do.

ToddsterPatriot, the nation's population has both an average and a median wage. I assume you know the meaning of the mathematical term, “median”. You just want to upset me by pretending you're ignorant. I suppose you are well aware that for most applications, the “median” rather than the “average” provides us with a much more “usual” or “typical” number.

Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage, which would indicate that most employed wage earners were experiencing a loss of purchasing power.

I believe eliminating the federal minimum wage rate would more than otherwise be deflationary rather than inflationary.

Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves.
A substantial portion of those now earning $10/per hour would be unemployed, additionally, a substantial portion of those employed would also be in need of public assistance.

Respectfully, Supposn

Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage, which would indicate that most employed wage earners were experiencing a loss of purchasing power.

Thanks for clearing up your earlier, muddled claim.
Couldn't tell if you meant the median wage would be eroded by inflation (unlikely to happen), or the median would fall because lots of wages would fall (very unlikely to happen) or the median would fall because of a large increase of workers joining the workforce below the current median (most likely to happen).

I suppose you are well aware that for most applications, the “median” rather than the “average” provides us with a much more “usual” or “typical” number.

Incomes is one area where I don't believe the median to be very useful.

Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage

Unless you're talking about inflation, why do you keep using the term "purchasing power"?
You're making less sense than usual.

And again, the nation doesn't have a median wage.
Try this thought experiment. One million new workers are hired at the minimum wage.
Everyone above the current median gets a 10% raise. No one else does.
Has the "purchasing power of the nation's median wage" been reduced?
Is the nation better off than before?

Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy.

I don't believe you.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down.

Walk thru the logic behind this claim.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Nobody earns a median wage, they earn a wage.
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would reduce your wages? Why?
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would be inflationary? Why?

and increase the incidences and extents of poverty in our nation.

If you're worth $10/hour, why would eliminating the current federal minimum wage of $7.25 harm you?

You don't seem to appreciate what competitive markets can or cannot do.

You don't seem to appreciate what government mandates can or cannot do.

ToddsterPatriot, the nation's population has both an average and a median wage. I assume you know the meaning of the mathematical term, “median”. You just want to upset me by pretending you're ignorant. I suppose you are well aware that for most applications, the “median” rather than the “average” provides us with a much more “usual” or “typical” number.

Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage, which would indicate that most employed wage earners were experiencing a loss of purchasing power.

I believe eliminating the federal minimum wage rate would more than otherwise be deflationary rather than inflationary.

Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves.
A substantial portion of those now earning $10/per hour would be unemployed, additionally, a substantial portion of those employed would also be in need of public assistance.

Respectfully, Supposn

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

It's simple. People who can't currently get a job at $7.25/hr will be hired at $4/hr to
replace workers currently making $50/hr.

 

[Pilot1]

Markets should set prices for goods, and services, as well as wages. If you have government artificially setting either prices, or wages nothing good happens. Products become scarce, and businesses can not afford to hire, and retain employees.

Notice how businesses are moving out of Seattle, and San Francisco.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When you pay an employee more than his or her productivity warrants you are retarding economic growth.

What about if you pay an employee less than his or her productivity warrants, does that retard economic growth? And what determines what salary an employee's productivity warrants?

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I've seen this sentiment expressed quite a bit, yet rarely, if ever, see the opposite discussed. What are the effects of paying employees less than what their productivity warrants, which seems like what the minimum wage would be trying to prevent? By paying employees too little, do they end up with less spending money, putting less money into the economy, stifling growth?

I'm not trying to single you out for an answer, I just read your post and wanted to comment on the idea. The question is for anyone who opposes minimum wage, or minimum wage increases, because paying employees too much is bad for economic growth. What do you think about the other side of the coin, paying employees too little?

By paying employees too little, do they end up with less spending money, putting less money into the economy, stifling growth?

Good question. A friend of mine owns a building that is equipped to be a restaurant. He will rent the building and a few months later they move out. Then the building sits empty for months. This happens over and over again. Driving around town, I see whole rows of empty storefronts where there used to be businesses. All of these people have lost their jobs

The fact is that these businesses depend on a local population with a few bucks in their pockets. If the locals are squeezed down to nothing and are counting pennies to make rent, they can't afford to support these businesses.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The optimum is $0 per hour.

that's right. LOTS of people aint WORTH $8 an hour, doing anything. But many of them ARE worth $4 an hour, so they could be making something!

Abrere and Toddsterpatriot, if there was no definite legally set and enforced minimum wage and no shortage of job applicants that would accept the indefinite theoretical minimum wage, that minimum rate would be driven down to the lowest feasible extent.

The minimum wage rate more or less relates to other wage scales in an inverse manner. The minimum rate has a lesser effect upon higher, and a greater effect upon lower wage scales; but due to the concept of wage differentials, it more or less affects all labor compensation in the USA.

Reducing the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate increases USA's rate of poverty and drags upon our median wage more than otherwise. There's no doubt that elimination of the federal minimum wage would increase our employment rate and slightly increase our domestic production, but due to the detrimental effects of increased poverty, it would be economically and socially net detrimental to our nation.

Respectfully, Supposn

that minimum rate would be driven down to the lowest feasible extent.

Yes, people with no skills and no experience would accept less than the current federal minimum.
As it stands now, they accept $0.

Reducing the purchasing power of the federal minimum wage rate increases USA's rate of poverty and drags upon our median wage more than otherwise.

Raising it too far above the value that the least skilled can produce increases youth unemployment rates and increases poverty and welfare dependency.

There's no doubt that elimination of the federal minimum wage would increase our employment rate and slightly increase our domestic production,

Hmmmmmm…..sounds like your IC "plan".

but due to the detrimental effects of increased poverty, it would be economically and socially net detrimental to our nation.

Even more like the IC plan. Spooky!​

If you are going to automate all the low level jobs the only option left is death or governmental handouts.

Generic Graduates

Diploma Dumbo jobs will be automated, too. They merely "learn how to" do a job, just like the average American boy "learns how to" play baseball but can't even make his high school team.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

To end any debate on what the minimum wage should be, first we must agree that we can optimize a minimum wage, meaning that the minimum wage will increase employment and economic consumption in the same way that a starving person once re-hydrated and re-fed can finally heal and get out of bed.

The US economy is retarded by too-low (artificially low) minimum wages, where the wage is artificially depressed by illegal immigration but allowed by law which allows lower than optimal wages.

http://www.princeton.edu/~davidlee/wp/lee-saez11optminwage_jpubeR2.pdf

WTF????

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

ToddsterPatriot, although the elimination of the federal minimum wage would greatly reduce our unemployment rate, and significantly reduce the purchasing power of our median wage and increase the incidences and extents of poverty in our nation.

Your proposal to prohibit the importation of bananas is much less detrimental to our nation. It would not reduce our trade deficit by any perceivable extent and would have little effect upon our numbers of jobs or our median family incomes, but to the extents that it affects could be perceived, the proposal's net effects are more likely to be detrimental than beneficial to our nation.

You don't seem to appreciate what competitive markets can or cannot do. You're not (to the extent that you believe), a conservative.

Respectfully, Supposn

and significantly reduce the purchasing power of our median wage

Nobody earns a median wage, they earn a wage.
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would reduce your wages? Why?
Do you feel eliminating the minimum wage would be inflationary? Why?

and increase the incidences and extents of poverty in our nation.

If you're worth $10/hour, why would eliminating the current federal minimum wage of $7.25 harm you?

You don't seem to appreciate what competitive markets can or cannot do.

You don't seem to appreciate what government mandates can or cannot do.

Do some research proof in the pudding is UBER rates. They are contractors and thus don't have to pay the minimum wage. Rates used to be $1.60 a mile but now drop below 0.70 cents per mile. The government estimates that 0.70 per mile is what it cost to run your car so they are operating in the negative income. When I reported my income, doing Uber back at $1.60 a mile I would report negative income on my yearly income. Foreign immigration, not just illegals, get drivers licenses and work 20 hours a day in their cars for pennies on the dollar, doing their own mechanical work (no way they can afford someone else to do it) and drove the prices down to the point I couldn't even make enough money to make the car payment in an 8 hour day. When I started I sometimes made $300 in a single day. Now I'm lucky to make $25.00 in an 8 hour day. Now someone pings you from 15 minutes away, you drive to them and they pay a 5 minute minimum fare of 4 bucks which cost you close to 30 minutes of total driving time and you only get to keep $1.70 of that $4 after paying Ubers share, insurance, etc. which has to go to vehicle upkeep. One mistake, one single problem, and your homeless without a car working those conditions. And it's because of immigrants both legal and illegal.

Just Like Socialism, Capitalism Needs to Be Decapitated

Cheap foreign labor, legal or illegal, falls right in with Plutocratic egotistic ideology. If the self-styled Atlases can pay Americans whatever they feel like, making up out of thin air how much of a profit margin they deserve, then it follows that they have the right to hire the cheapest labor globally.

 

[Supposn]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

 

[Supposn]

That's ridiculous.

Every single country that has ever lowered it's minimum wage, has seen employment go up. Greece lowered their minimum wage, and employment immediately went up.
And shockingly, if more people are working and producing, the economy recovers.

This is bonkers. you are economically illiterate.​

... Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage, which would indicate that most employed wage earners were experiencing a loss of purchasing power.
I believe eliminating the federal minimum wage rate would more than otherwise be deflationary rather than inflationary.
Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves.
A substantial portion of those now earning $10/per hour would be unemployed, additionally, a substantial portion of those employed would also be in need of public assistance.

Andylusion, more people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down and poverty will be greatly increasing.
Respectfully, Supposn

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's ridiculous.

Every single country that has ever lowered it's minimum wage, has seen employment go up. Greece lowered their minimum wage, and employment immediately went up.
And shockingly, if more people are working and producing, the economy recovers.

This is bonkers. you are economically illiterate.​

... Eliminating or reducing the purchasing power of the legally mandated minimum wage would reduce the purchasing power of the nation's median wage, which would indicate that most employed wage earners were experiencing a loss of purchasing power.
I believe eliminating the federal minimum wage rate would more than otherwise be deflationary rather than inflationary.
Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves.
A substantial portion of those now earning $10/per hour would be unemployed, additionally, a substantial portion of those employed would also be in need of public assistance.

Andylusion, more people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down and poverty will be greatly increasing.
Respectfully, Supposn

​

Andylusion, more people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down and poverty will be greatly increasing.

If only you had proof.

 

[Supposn]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

Uhm because it's not 1935????

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

Uhm because it's not 1935????

We need the federal minimum wage or we'll fall into a depression.
It all makes sense now.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Your post is insane.. how would wages go down?

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

Uhm because it's not 1935????

We need the federal minimum wage or we'll fall into a depression.
It all makes sense now.

He is insane, look at the job boards across the country starting wage in industry is way over the states minimum wage, the states that have a high minimum wage , the starting wage is not much higher in industry

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Bear513, you obviously know nothing about our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

Uhm because it's not 1935????

We need the federal minimum wage or we'll fall into a depression.
It all makes sense now.

He is insane, look at the job boards across the country starting wage in industry is way over the states minimum wage, the states that have a high minimum wage , the starting wage is not much higher in industry

He has an unnatural faith in the power of government over markets.

 

[Supposn]

That's ridiculous.
Every single country that has ever lowered it's minimum wage, has seen employment go up. Greece lowered their minimum wage, and employment immediately went up.
And shockingly, if more people are working and producing, the economy recovers.…

... Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves. …

… Andylusion, more people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down and poverty will be greatly increasing.

If only you had proof.

ToddsterPatriot, I refer you to our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Wyatt earp]

Try me, I am a huge history buff, and I know our reality today.

Bear513, it seems you tested yourself and failed your own test.
Why would anyone aware of the economic depression prior to World War Two doubt that wages may be decreased? Why would anyone with some acquaintance with USA's economy doubt that the purchasing powers of existing jobs' wages can be reduced?
Respectfully, Supposn

Uhm because it's not 1935????

We need the federal minimum wage or we'll fall into a depression.
It all makes sense now.

He is insane, look at the job boards across the country starting wage in industry is way over the states minimum wage, the states that have a high minimum wage , the starting wage is not much higher in industry

He has an unnatural faith in the power of government over markets.

Speaking of this , just eating at the cook out in North Carolina. 40 hours a week plus overtime at a fast food place, the industry around here my be kicking..


A sign on the guys John.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's ridiculous.
Every single country that has ever lowered it's minimum wage, has seen employment go up. Greece lowered their minimum wage, and employment immediately went up.
And shockingly, if more people are working and producing, the economy recovers.…

... Eliminating our current minimum wage of $7.25 while there was no shortage of unskilled labor, would have a devastating effect upon USA's economy. States would attempt, but couldn't save their own economies.

More people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down. The state's public assistance programs would be unable to handle their increased numbers of employed people's families that would be unable to financially sustain themselves. …

… Andylusion, more people would be employed but wage's purchasing powers would be spiraling down and poverty will be greatly increasing.

If only you had proof.

ToddsterPatriot, I refer you to our nation's history between 1929 and the Second World War.
Respectfully, Supposn

Thanks.
Let me know when you have proof that eliminating the MW would trigger a deflationary depression.

 

[Supposn]

Uhm because it's not 1935????

Bear513, yes, you're right, it's not now 1935. I also remember my mother being asked, 'Do you remember when steak was less than a quarter per pound"? She replied, “Yes, and no one had the quarter”.

The Staten Island ferry ride was a nickel and grade school desks had special inkwell bottle compartment.

So what's your point? Respectfully, Supposn