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Presbyterians 'Receive' Policy on Worship
Monday June 19, 2006 8:46 PM
AP Photo ALRE103
By RICHARD N. OSTLING
AP Religion Writer
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (AP) - The divine Trinity - ``Father, Son and Holy Spirit'' - could also be known as ``Mother, Child and Womb'' or ``Rock, Redeemer, Friend'' at some Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) services under an action Monday by the church's national assembly.
Delegates to the meeting voted to ``receive'' a policy paper on gender-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it. That means church officials can propose experimental liturgies with alternative phrasings for the Trinity, but congregations won't be required to use them.
``This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership,'' legislative committee chair Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during Monday's debate on the Trinity.
The assembly narrowly defeated a conservative bid to refer the paper back for further study.
A panel that worked on the issue since 2000 said the classical language for the Trinity should still be used, but added that Presbyterians also should seek ``fresh ways to speak of the mystery of the triune God'' to ``expand the church's vocabulary of praise and wonder.''
One reason is that language limited to the Father and Son ``has been used to support the idea that God is male and that men are superior to women,'' the panel said.
Conservatives responded that the church should stick close to the way God is named in the Bible and noted that Jesus' most famous prayer was addressed to ``Our Father.''
Besides ``Mother, Child and Womb'' and ``Rock, Redeemer, Friend,'' proposed Trinity options drawn from biblical material include:
- ``Lover, Beloved, Love''
- ``Creator, Savior, Sanctifier''
- ``King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love.''
Early in Monday's business session, the Presbyterian assembly sang a revised version of a familiar doxology, ``Praise God from whom all blessings flow'' that avoided male nouns and pronouns for God.
Youth delegate Dorothy Hill, a student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Massachusetts, was uncomfortable with changing the Trinity wording. She said the paper ``suggests viewpoints that seem to be in tension with what our church has always held to be true about our Trinitarian God.''
Hill reminded delegates that the Ten Commandments say ``the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.''
The Rev. Deborah Funke of Montana warned that the paper would be ``theologically confusing and divisive'' at a time when the denomination of 2.3 million members faces other troublesome issues.
On Tuesday, the assembly will vote on a proposal to give local congregations and regional ``presbyteries'' some leeway on ordaining clergy and lay officers living in gay relationships.
Ten conservative Presbyterian groups have warned jointly that approval of what they call ``local option'' would ``promote schism by permitting the disregard of clear standards of Scripture.''
5stringJeff said:If God had wanted us to refer to Him in the feminine, He would have revealed Himself in the feminine. Since He revealed Himself to mankind in the masculine, we should conclude that He wants us to refer to Him in the masculine. Therefore, such formulas as "Mother, Child and Womb" or "Our Mother in Heaven" should be firmly rejected.
Why not get to know God, and ask Him?Bullypulpit said:How do you know God isn't feminine? Scriptural authority? How did they know God wasn't feminine?
Bullypulpit said:How do you know God isn't feminine? Scriptural authority? How did they know God wasn't feminine?
Bullypulpit said:How do you know God isn't feminine? Scriptural authority? How did they know God wasn't feminine?
Bullypulpit said:How do you know God isn't feminine? Scriptural authority? How did they know God wasn't feminine?
Bullypulpit said:How do you know God isn't feminine? Scriptural authority? How did they know God wasn't feminine?
Pssst, might want to read the words of Jesus sometime.
Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
Luke10:21At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
God revealed Himself in the masculine sense throughout the Old Testament (which was not the norm in the Ancient Middle East; many of the chief gods of the region's religions were female). Jesus referred to God as His Father numerous times throughout His earthly ministry, and the apostles continued this usage.
It would be absurd to claim that God is either male or female; as pure Spirit, God has no sex or gender in the same sense that we do. However, it is still incorrect to refer to God in a contrary sense than that in which He revealed Himself.
Any revealed religion is going to reflect the preconceptions and prejudices of the revelator...Don'cha think?
I have often wondered about Jesus saying "Father," given that his mother was Mary. I do not though believe it is as black and white as we make it, for example:
Genesis:
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
How can both be His image?
I mean, we know the Holy Spirit came over Mary, not God himself had sex with Mary. Unless I am mistaken.
Thus, by saying "father," does this mean that male and female in his image are "father?"
I don't know. Just thoughts.
You are going to take moral guidance from a guy you claim to be a massive LIAR?I have. Nice allegory and some good moral guidance.
I have. Nice allegory and some good moral guidance.
Well, you darn well know the anti Christian gang that he belongs to will simply deny that Jesus ever claimed he was God.So when Jesus claimed to be God, was that allegory or moral guidance?
Interesting how the left flip flops about requiring absolute evidence about something (WMD's) when lack of evidence doesnt really prove anything, but other times when it fits their agenda, an allegory or non direct method of proof isnt good enough (Jesus claiming to be God).
