Oil/Gas Question

[Defiant1]

I am asking the forum members to help me out in a question I have.

What happens when gas/oil becomes too expensive for people to use? I mean, I live 20+ miles from the closest city [closest town is about 10-12] and we live on a farm in the middle of nowhere, we can't exactly bike/walk too town, even though I know I could probably bike 20 miles, I do not believe it would be a option for school lol, although who knows. Thank the lord I am getting out of here in 3 months.

I have already closed the idea of getting a truck, seeing as how the Jeep I like just as much gets 23-29mpg average, a lot better then 14-20; now I am wondering, are vehicles really all that important? I have no problem riding a horse to work, although I'd prefer a mule or donkey, less issues and have more sense. (Have raised members of all the families, horse/donkey/mule/cow/emu/llama)

I am just wondering cause I personally have no idea, I mean, the only thing I can think is riots/mobs in the streets trying to figure out how their going to survive.

It won't happen. If gas isn't being bought, companies aren't making money and inventories increase, so they lower the price.

 

[JiggsCasey]

although i am not necessarily against drilling more in some of the nationally restricted areas of the usa, i disagree with Foxfyre....increased drilling in the US will NOT lower the prices of oil and the oil drilled here, is sold on the global market and not held here in the usa....for only our use.

Your political rhetoric has been proven wrong. "Drill Here Drill Now" has & will lower oil prices. Stop regurgitating democrat fact-less lies, spin, & talking points. What drove oil prices up to $145.29? Here is a clue. This coincided with the "Peak Oil" media blitz. Similar to the Enron Power Scam. Oil traders leased most of the oil tankers tying them up to restrict the transportation of oil to markets. They stored their oil in these tankers & parked them offshore so they would not count in inventory creating the illusion of an oil shortage. This is called "Floating Storage"

Oil Stored at Sea Washes Out Rallies
More oil is being produced than recession-stricken economies need, and prices have fallen as the extra crude fills storage terminals world-wide. Crude-futures prices are down 72% from the record hit in July... The oil sitting at sea adds an extra layer of uncertainty about the supply overhang, which traders said must be whittled down for oil prices to rebound. Tankers carrying up to two million barrels each aren't counted in official statistics. Ship trackers estimate that as many as 80 million barrels may be on the water, or more than twice the amount kept in the largest commercial storage center in the U.S., in Cushing, Okla.

What Event Happened on the very day oil stopped climbing past $145.29 & began its decline all the way down to $33.87? That is a $112 drop in oil prices!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FusqAtX0OJ8"]Oil Drops $112 because of this![/ame]

Amazing I Tell You, Utterly Amazing! If you think I am lying about the cause of the $112 drop, Check the date against the oil price charts. Now you see "Drill Baby Drill" worked. Don't you just hate it when Sarah Palin is smarter than you. This stuck all those Enron type traders with ship loads of oil that they lost their ass on. Now what event happened on the very day Oil Prices started to climb again from the $33 dollar low. Hint (New Administration took office). Check The Charts! Now every time Obama threatens to stop drilling, these Enron type "Floating Storage" scum bags make their money back. How Fucking Stupid is this Obama Idiot?

Hot off the press: Bloomberg - Oil Imports Surge as Traders Unwind Floating Storage Bets: Energy Markets

Oil imports into the Gulf of Mexico region surged to a record last week as the profits from floating storage evaporated, pushing traders to unload their cargoes and forcing crude futures lower.

The price advantage for traders who buy oil and store it at sea for a month instead of delivering it immediately has shrunk 90 percent since May. Floating storage in the Gulf dropped 24 percent in the week ended July 23, Bloomberg data show.

“What was going on last week was dumping the crude,” said Tim Evans, an energy analyst at Citi Futures Perspective in New York. “The spread is putting pressure on those holding inventories on tankers to move it ashore.”

Stockpiles unexpectedly rose 7.31 million barrels, or 2.1 percent, to 360.8 million in the week ended July 23, confounding analysts who predicted inventories would fall 1.73 million barrels, or 0.5 percent, to their lowest level in four months. A surge in imports to Gulf states contributed to the glut, Energy Department figures showed July 28.

You should study correlation vs. causation. The price spike of 2008 doesn't mean what you think it means.

Also, there was no "peak oil media blitz," drama queen. Almost no one is talking about peak oil. They don't dare cover it (and please don't pretend the Discovery channel is the media we're talking about here). You're lying for effect... again.

Those events you assign do not follow the partisan equation you are trying to spin.

$33 global oil had ZERO to do with your favorite president's decree about kiddie pools under our ocean bed.

Needless to say, you ARE as dumb as Palin.

 

[Cain]

Didn't want to have to make a mess quoting everyone so here ya go lol:

Well, my grandma lived on a cotton farm with 13 brothers and sisters, the only person that ever went to town was her father, and I think she said once a month to stock up, but I can't remember what they stocked up on, they raised their own food I think.

Yea, well, I know my parents will NEVER move into the city, I think they'd rather die in the country, their terrified of huge populated areas, and they just like the quite life. I don't blame them to be honest.

My vehicle of choice is the Jeep Patriot, and I believe 23-29 will be good for me, seeing as how I won't be paying for anything else, I don't plan to take a cell phone with me, or anything I can't just buy outright. If it gets bad enough, I could get a motorcycle, I have heard of some that get 50+, but if I get stationed in North Dakota, I'm investing in some serious winter gear.

I love living on a farm, but I'd hate to see the cities burn, and my worry would be the roads near my farm turning into Road Warrior lol.

Thanks for all the information and comments/suggestions, I thank you all, and I hope for more, I really worry about this, and I try to find a logical reason before giving into panic as best as I can, although I fail at times.

Also, I do not believe it would effect our output much, we have all the gear to use animals for agriculture (not much of a option for large farms, but we are a small farm) and I know a lot of the local Amish, and they wouldn't mind showing us the ropes to do it old-style lol. I remember complaining one time about setting tobbaco (planting) and our boss talked about how he had bought this setter like 30 years ago and it was old then, then I was told in Mexico they still do it by hand, I was inclined to like the setter haha.

 

[Foxfyre]

Didn't want to have to make a mess quoting everyone so here ya go lol:

Well, my grandma lived on a cotton farm with 13 brothers and sisters, the only person that ever went to town was her father, and I think she said once a month to stock up, but I can't remember what they stocked up on, they raised their own food I think.

Yea, well, I know my parents will NEVER move into the city, I think they'd rather die in the country, their terrified of huge populated areas, and they just like the quite life. I don't blame them to be honest.

My vehicle of choice is the Jeep Patriot, and I believe 23-29 will be good for me, seeing as how I won't be paying for anything else, I don't plan to take a cell phone with me, or anything I can't just buy outright. If it gets bad enough, I could get a motorcycle, I have heard of some that get 50+, but if I get stationed in North Dakota, I'm investing in some serious winter gear.

I love living on a farm, but I'd hate to see the cities burn, and my worry would be the roads near my farm turning into Road Warrior lol.

Thanks for all the information and comments/suggestions, I thank you all, and I hope for more, I really worry about this, and I try to find a logical reason before giving into panic as best as I can, although I fail at times.

Also, I do not believe it would effect our output much, we have all the gear to use animals for agriculture (not much of a option for large farms, but we are a small farm) and I know a lot of the local Amish, and they wouldn't mind showing us the ropes to do it old-style lol. I remember complaining one time about setting tobbaco (planting) and our boss talked about how he had bought this setter like 30 years ago and it was old then, then I was told in Mexico they still do it by hand, I was inclined to like the setter haha.

You're still very young darlin', despite a demonstrated wisdom beyond your years. You haven't experienced what your grandparents have experienced--your parents probably some less so because their generation have enjoyed far more good times than hard times.

My parents endured a depression the likes of which America had never seen and has never seen since. But folks took care of folks, nobody we knew starved whether they had work or not even though the government didn't take care of anybody in their part of the world, and all survived.

Then came WWII and a time when gasoline, tires, meat, and numerous other necessities were severely rationed and butter was non existant unless you could make your own on the farm. World War II sucked almost all products out of the economy but people back then, unless they were extremely wealthy, learned to improvise, make do, wear things out, use things up, and make things last because they knew there might not be any more in the foreseeable future. Many were supporting a family on a dollar a day. My great aunt ran a general store in a small eastern New Mexico town and made sure folks got a scoop of flour or a bit of sugar even if they couldn't pay. Years later she was still trying to collect some of the debts she carried during that time but everybody survived the hardships.

Then there was my generation dealing with the Cold War, duck and cover drills and the Viet Nam War that affected us all and dragged on for a decade. Then there were more gasoline shortages with long gas lines hoping for just a gallon or two of fuel to be left when they got to the pump, watching double digit inflation erode our buying power and consume our savings as bread crept above an unimaginable $1/loaf, dealing with high unemployment and double digit interest rates. And there were also the brutal droughts creating terrifying water shortages, brown outs, Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, devastating hurricanes, killer tornadoes, killer earthquakes, unbelievable wild fires, and every other challenge imaginable.

And we survived it all.

We've had really good times for a long time now so we're softer and more dependent on government and less confident in our own ability to cope. But we're still Americans and the old spirit is there. We just have to resurrect it and hitch up our overalls and we'll weather the current storms and challenges too.

We have to. There simply is no option to fail.

 

[RGR]

You should study correlation vs. causation. The price spike of 2008 doesn't mean what you think it means.

The parrot shouldn't be calling the kettle black.

You obviously confused correlation with causation not 5 posts back by pretending that increased food costs are because of fuel costs. Without a mention in the world of all the other things which effect food costs...just letting your mouth run away with you.

Stop. Apply single neuron firing. Then post.

Also, there was no "peak oil media blitz," drama queen. Almost no one is talking about peak oil.

Not NOW. But in 2005 it was making the front page of USA Today, above the fold. Of course, peak happened, no one noticed, and certainly it isn't even WORTH talking about now except by backwoods intellectuals who just won't shut up about their religious beliefs.

They don't dare cover it (and please don't pretend the Discovery channel is the media we're talking about here). You're lying for effect... again.

They were covering it before you were skimming the Cliff Notes version of the peak oil Bible. And were predicting it before you were born, so of COURSE they were covering it (and Jimmy Carter was pretending it was real in the 70's).

Jiggsy, why don't you tell use which Peak Priest or congregation member you are on the religious sites so we can investigate your bad predictions, ridiculous assertions, and sophomoric logic there rather than cluttering up the joint here trying to recruit new members to your religion?

 

[RGR]

Modify your behavior, and your expectations, and you won't notice rising gas prices in the least.

Yup. (On another board) the last time gas prices skyrocketed, we had this same disussion and there were those who saw the practical side of it as you do. When prices rise, those of us with finite resources make do with less, conserve more, become more careful, plan better. When things are cheap they are far more expendable and we are far more careless in using them.

Yeah, the basic behavior dictated by economics works pretty well. People bash them for not being a science but they have some quite reasonable and valid points to make..usually ignored by others in a rush to advocate a political or religious position.

This thread started with the concern of one who lives far outside the city. But where we live is a choice for most and there will always be tradeoffs when we decide what is more important.

It was not cheap fuel that drove people to the suburbs but crime and deterioration of other qualify of life factors.

Thats how I see it. However, these boards are obviously infested with some peaker-lite religious agendas and they tend to cast everything as a "things only happen because of oil!" argument.

 

[Samson]

In the 50s and 60s gas was cheap and people with jobs moved to the burbs and the poor remained behind.

As gas gets dear, people are moving back into the cities, and the poor are getting displaced.

People will adapt to changing condition if the changes aren't so rapid that they cannot change in time.

You got a link that shows more poor people are getting displaced? Or one that shows people to moving into cities? Where it is far more expensive to live.

he's saying that IF more people from the suburbs move back in to the city, then the poor will be displaced...

HOW?

Because land is limited and housing with it....and due to the limited product...housing....and the higher demand for housing, the price of housing and rent in the city will rise rise and rise....this will eventually displace the poor, who can not afford the higher rents that those from the suburbs moving in to the city can pay.

This is why God made Public Transportation.

 

[Samson]

Modify your behavior, and your expectations, and you won't notice rising gas prices in the least.

Yup. (On another board) the last time gas prices skyrocketed, we had this same disussion and there were those who saw the practical side of it as you do. When prices rise, those of us with finite resources make do with less, conserve more, become more careful, plan better. When things are cheap they are far more expendable and we are far more careless in using them.

Yeah, the basic behavior dictated by economics works pretty well. People bash them for not being a science but they have some quite reasonable and valid points to make..usually ignored by others in a rush to advocate a political or religious position.

This thread started with the concern of one who lives far outside the city. But where we live is a choice for most and there will always be tradeoffs when we decide what is more important.

It was not cheap fuel that drove people to the suburbs but crime and deterioration of other qualify of life factors.

Thats how I see it. However, these boards are obviously infested with some peaker-lite religious agendas and they tend to cast everything as a "things only happen because of oil!" argument.

Meh...it isn't necessarily an argument against fossil fuel use as much as it is a partisan argument to tie every potential "evul" to a Republican Agenda. Most of the "peaker-lites" have finally figured out that 3 years after Bush left office, he's no longer an effective boggie-man, so they've found another, less capricious target: The Oil and Gas Industry.

 

[zzzz]

We have alternative fuels to power vehicles. The cost and applicability of them are why they are not being used to their full extent. But it is not powering our vehicles that we must worry about. Oil is used to make all of the following:
Solvents
Diesel fuel
Motor Oil
Bearing Grease
Ink
Floor Wax
Ballpoint Pens
Football Cleats
Upholstery
Sweaters
Boats
Insecticides
Bicycle Tires
Sports Car Bodies
Nail Polish
Fishing lures
Dresses
Tires
Golf Bags
Perfumes
Cassettes
Dishwasher parts
Tool Boxes
Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet
Caulking
Petroleum Jelly
Transparent Tape
CD Player
Faucet Washers
Antiseptics
Clothesline
Curtains
Food Preservatives
Basketballs
Soap
Vitamin Capsules
Antihistamines
Purses
Shoes
Dashboards
Cortisone
Deodorant
Footballs
Putty
Dyes
Panty Hose
Refrigerant
Percolators
Life Jackets
Rubbing Alcohol
Linings
Skis
TV Cabinets
Shag Rugs
Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks
Car Battery Cases
Epoxy
Paint
Mops
Slacks
Insect Repellent
Oil Filters
Umbrellas
Yarn
Fertilizers
Hair Coloring
Roofing
Toilet Seats
Fishing Rods
Lipstick
Denture Adhesive
Linoleum
Ice Cube Trays
Synthetic Rubber
Speakers
Plastic Wood
Electric Blankets
Glycerin
Tennis Rackets
Rubber Cement
Fishing Boots
Dice
Nylon Rope
Candles
Trash Bags
House Paint
Water Pipes
Hand Lotion
Roller Skates
Surf Boards
Shampoo
Wheels
Paint Rolers
Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings
Luggage
Aspirin
Safety Glasses
Antifreeze
Football Helmets
Awnings
Eyeglasses
Clothes
Toothbrushes
Ice Chests
Footballs
Combs
CD's & DVD's
Paint Brushes
Detergents
Vaporizers
Balloons
Sun Glasses
Tents
Heart Valves
Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Enamel
Pillows
Dishes
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial Turf
Artificial limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Model Cars
Folding Doors
Hair Curlers
Cold cream
Movie film
Soft Contact lenses
Drinking Cups
Fan Belts
Car Enamel
Shaving Cream
Ammonia
Refrigerators
Golf Balls
Toothpaste
Gasoline

And that's only 144 of the over 6000 items that are created form oil.

 

[RGR]

We have alternative fuels to power vehicles. The cost and applicability of them are why they are not being used to their full extent. But it is not powering our vehicles that we must worry about. Oil is used to make all of the following:

And that's only 144 of the over 6000 items that are created form oil.

That's some list!

Good thing we can make oil from natural gas....so not only do we have a century or more of oil laying around, but then we can start converting all of that natural gas to oil and use that too!

Abundance! What a concept!

 

[Samson]

I am just wondering cause I personally have no idea, I mean, the only thing I can think is riots/mobs in the streets trying to figure out how their going to survive.

Crude oil is such a wonderful chemical feedstock that burning it to move ourselves from here to there for cigarettes, beer and fast food is perhaps one of the most ignorant misallocation of resources since the dawn of man.

But there is just so much of the stuff around..."Why not use it!" seems more like the operative attitude.

Modify your behavior, and your expectations, and you won't notice rising gas prices in the least.

My personal example. When gas was $1.50/gal I drove a V8 powered pickup at 13 mpg. At $3/gal I'll drive an Escape Hybrid at 26 mpg. At $4/gal I'll switch to a Camry hybrid at 39mpg. At $5/gal I buy a Prius.

Under all these scenario's I spend the exact same amount for fuel, even though the price has gone up by 300%+.

Correspondingly, you can drive less. Drive half as much for each doubling in price and you'll still pay the same money for fuel. And can keep your Jeep, if that is really want to drive.

So pick your price point, and make your capital investment accordingly.

Unfortunately, rising fuel prices effects every aspect of the global economy, not just our Sunday driving habits.

*The price of corn has doubled over the last six months.
*The price of wheat has more than doubled over the past year.
*The price of soybeans is up about 50% since last June.
*The price of cotton has more than doubled over the past year.
*The commodity price of orange juice has doubled since 2009.
*The price of sugar is the highest it has been in 30 years.

Then of course, there's the small business, and it's capacity to hire/maintain employees.

The real mystery is why academic quackery has risen in price: How does regurgitating the same pathetic predictions for the past 60 years rise in value?

 

[RGR]

Meh...it isn't necessarily an argument against fossil fuel use as much as it is a partisan argument to tie every potential "evul" to a Republican Agenda. Most of the "peaker-lites" have finally figured out that 3 years after Bush left office, he's no longer an effective boggie-man, so they've found another, less capricious target: The Oil and Gas Industry.

Ah, they've been after that industry nearly forever. The peak-rapturists to a large extent are human-haters, and really want lawyers, yuppies, and humvee drivers to die, for many reasons (not the least of which is jealousy I suppose).

 

[Samson]

Meh...it isn't necessarily an argument against fossil fuel use as much as it is a partisan argument to tie every potential "evul" to a Republican Agenda. Most of the "peaker-lites" have finally figured out that 3 years after Bush left office, he's no longer an effective boggie-man, so they've found another, less capricious target: The Oil and Gas Industry.

Ah, they've been after that industry nearly forever. The peak-rapturists to a large extent are human-haters, and really want lawyers, yuppies, and humvee drivers to die, for many reasons (not the least of which is jealousy I suppose).

"lawyers, yuppies, and humvee drivers?".....you just described Boulder County.

 

[Cuyo]

I am asking the forum members to help me out in a question I have.

What happens when gas/oil becomes too expensive for people to use? I mean, I live 20+ miles from the closest city [closest town is about 10-12] and we live on a farm in the middle of nowhere, we can't exactly bike/walk too town, even though I know I could probably bike 20 miles, I do not believe it would be a option for school lol, although who knows. Thank the lord I am getting out of here in 3 months.

I have already closed the idea of getting a truck, seeing as how the Jeep I like just as much gets 23-29mpg average, a lot better then 14-20; now I am wondering, are vehicles really all that important? I have no problem riding a horse to work, although I'd prefer a mule or donkey, less issues and have more sense. (Have raised members of all the families, horse/donkey/mule/cow/emu/llama)

I am just wondering cause I personally have no idea, I mean, the only thing I can think is riots/mobs in the streets trying to figure out how their going to survive.

Do you mean eg today's (still relatively cheap) temporary price increases? Or when such a time arrives that it's up way higher... And for good... And assuming an alternative has not replaced it?

 

[RGR]

"lawyers, yuppies, and humvee drivers?".....you just described Boulder County.

Oh...I bet there are more Priuses in Boulder County than Humvee's.

 

[RGR]

... And assuming an alternative has not replaced it?

Alternatives already are. Which is why the peak-rapturists are running so scared as of late.

 

[JiggsCasey]

Not NOW. But in 2005 it was making the front page of USA Today, above the fold. Of course, peak happened, no one noticed, and certainly it isn't even WORTH talking about now except by backwoods intellectuals who just won't shut up about their religious beliefs.

You are truly the champion of unfalsifiable claim. It's like a defense mechanism for you. LOL

To you morons, because we can't specify a particular hour of when it happened, we're somehow "wrong." Global liquids production peaked this past decade, and has been relatively flatlined since late 2004. Grow up, and attempt to be intellectually honest for once in your short agenda-driven history here.

Along those lines, pointing to one publication from six years ago does NOT support his claim, regardless of how desperately you try to spin, liar. Sure, there has been a spattering of reports over the past 30 years questioning world oil reserves. But OBVIOUSLY, dick, the assertion made by your loyal follower there was that it's all some ongoing "media blitz" on the topic of peak oil, ..... when it most certainly has NOT been.

If the media actually "blitzed" the topic of global resource depletion, it would be above the fold on A1 every day of every month. The FACT of the matter is, the mainstream media barely ever mentions it. And NEVER mentions the IEA's latest assessments.

My gawd, do you ever suck at this.

 

[JiggsCasey]

The real mystery is why academic quackery has risen in price: How does regurgitating the same pathetic predictions for the past 60 years rise in value?

Oh, hey there slow poster. Guess what? They're not the same predictions at all. Different conditions, different paradigm, and obviously, very different outcome already unfolding.

Remove your head from your rectum, and think about doing more reading, and less baseless pontificating.

 

[editec]

In the 50s and 60s gas was cheap and people with jobs moved to the burbs and the poor remained behind.

As gas gets dear, people are moving back into the cities, and the poor are getting displaced.

People will adapt to changing condition if the changes aren't so rapid that they cannot change in time.

You got a link that shows more poor people are getting displaced? Or one that shows people to moving into cities? Where it is far more expensive to live.

Not really, no.

But having been part of the revitalization of Boston in the 70s and 80s, where upwardly mobile Yuppies took back the neighborhoods that had once been nice neighborhoods, and then had turned into slums as White FLIGHT happened in the 50s and 60s, I think what I wrote above is a rather well understood phemonema.

The revitalization of the EAST COAST's cities isn't really something that one can debate.

It's way too obvious for that.

 

[editec]

In the 50s and 60s gas was cheap and people with jobs moved to the burbs and the poor remained behind.

As gas gets dear, people are moving back into the cities, and the poor are getting displaced.

People will adapt to changing condition if the changes aren't so rapid that they cannot change in time.

You got a link that shows more poor people are getting displaced? Or one that shows people to moving into cities? Where it is far more expensive to live.

he's saying that IF more people from the suburbs move back in to the city, then the poor will be displaced...

HOW?

Because land is limited and housing with it....and due to the limited product...housing....and the higher demand for housing, the price of housing and rent in the city will rise rise and rise....this will eventually displace the poor, who can not afford the higher rents that those from the suburbs moving in to the city can pay.

Actually what I am saying is that this process has been happening since the 1970s.

Pick almost every East coast city and study what's been happening for the last 40 years.

You'll see what I'm talking about.