OH MY GAWD! What if Holder didn't know about ATF gunwalking?

[Lakhota]

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Key words... Found at the scene. By that logic, maybe Mary Joe Kopechne drowned in a different car than Ted Kennedy's limo...That was found at the scene... Ridiculous.

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

I think you're missing the big picture, as always, but hey you kiss liberal ass constantly, you are consistant. I'm sure you're for Jerry Sandusky too?

Just answer the question. Were only TWO of the Mexicans armed?

 

[rdean]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

And yet Holder says himself that Fast and Furious began under the Obama administration, while saying that Wide Receiver was a program begun under Bush. Listen to the video that was posted by Darkwind earlier.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

He didn't say the Obama administration started it.

Come on people. We know about Reagan and secret weapons deals. We know about Bush and all of his schemes. Remember, a covert CIA agent was "outed" on his watch and he had to use executive privilege 6 times and there were no "witchhunts".

Does "gunrunning" sound anything like something the Obama administration would do? Remember, this is the guy who worked with generals who planned out getting Bin Laden. This is what's called a "careful" thinker. "No Drama Obama". So Obama is going to be part of this harebrained scheme. Bush I can see. But Obama? Give me a break.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sounds like gunwalking was a stupid clusterfuck - under Bush and Obama. However, it is my understanding that the bullet that killed Brian Terry cannot be definitively matched ballistically to either of the two gunwalking guns found at the scene.

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Key words... Found at the scene. By that logic, maybe Mary Joe Kopechne drowned in a different car than Ted Kennedy's limo...That was found at the scene... Ridiculous.

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Do you understand that coyotes do not normally allow the people they are "escorting" to carry AK-47s?

 

[Lakhota]

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Key words... Found at the scene. By that logic, maybe Mary Joe Kopechne drowned in a different car than Ted Kennedy's limo...That was found at the scene... Ridiculous.

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Do you understand that coyotes do not normally allow the people they are "escorting" to carry AK-47s?

Yes, and I also understand how a toilet works. How many of the FIVE Mexicans were armed? Were they coyotes or drug smugglers?

 

[tjvh]

Sounds like gunwalking was a stupid clusterfuck - under Bush and Obama. However, it is my understanding that the bullet that killed Brian Terry cannot be definitively matched ballistically to either of the two gunwalking guns found at the scene.

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Key words... Found at the scene. By that logic, maybe Mary Joe Kopechne drowned in a different car than Ted Kennedy's limo...That was found at the scene... Ridiculous.

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Let me give you an example, based upon FACTS. If there are five criminals and they rob a bank, and ONE of those criminals shoots a Bank Teller and kills that teller, and all five get arrested. Guess what? ALL FIVE get charged with murder... That is how the Law works. The guns that were found at the scene were directly linked to the crime, regardless of the partisan spin you want to put on it... Those "walked" guns WERE part of the murder of Brian Terry. It doesn't matter if ONLY one had a gun, the way the Law IS written.

 

[Lakhota]

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? Key words... Found at the scene. By that logic, maybe Mary Joe Kopechne drowned in a different car than Ted Kennedy's limo...That was found at the scene... Ridiculous.

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Let me give you an example, based upon FACTS. If there are five criminals and they rob a bank, and ONE of those criminals shoots a Bank Teller and kills that teller, and all five get arrested. Guess what? ALL FIVE get charged with murder... That is how the Law works. The guns that were found at the scene were directly linked to the crime, regardless of the partisan spin you want to put on it... Those "walked" guns WERE part of the murder of Brian Terry. It doesn't matter if ONLY one had a gun, the way the Law IS written.

Your point is irrelevant to my point. How many guns were at the Brian Terry shooting? Apparently more than the TWO gunwalking AKs; otherwise, the fact that the FBI can't get a ballistics match on the TWO AKs would be irrelevant.

 

[tjvh]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

And yet Holder says himself that Fast and Furious began under the Obama administration, while saying that Wide Receiver was a program begun under Bush. Listen to the video that was posted by Darkwind earlier.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

He didn't say the Obama administration started it.

Come on people. We know about Reagan and secret weapons deals. We know about Bush and all of his schemes. Remember, a covert CIA agent was "outed" on his watch and he had to use executive privilege 6 times and there were no "witchhunts".

Does "gunrunning" sound anything like something the Obama administration would do? Remember, this is the guy who worked with generals who planned out getting Bin Laden. This is what's called a "careful" thinker. "No Drama Obama". So Obama is going to be part of this harebrained scheme. Bush I can see. But Obama? Give me a break.

Absolutely... The main premise of F&F was to provide weapons to Mexicans, then disingenuously "discover" that America was providing guns to Mexicans ,so Liberal "advancements" could be made in curtailing Americans Second Amendment Rights. Strange how the the anti gun crowd has been "conveniently" quiet since F&F was exposed, isn't it. Bush you can "see"... But Obama? I'd suggest that if you take your partisan blinders off, your vision might improve.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Do you understand that coyotes do not normally allow the people they are "escorting" to carry AK-47s?

Yes, and I also understand how a toilet works. How many of the FIVE Mexicans were armed? Were they coyotes or drug smugglers?

There were 5 people in the group that fired upon Terry, 4 were arrested, the last one ran off with the magic disappearing gun that actually killed him.

 

[tjvh]

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Let me give you an example, based upon FACTS. If there are five criminals and they rob a bank, and ONE of those criminals shoots a Bank Teller and kills that teller, and all five get arrested. Guess what? ALL FIVE get charged with murder... That is how the Law works. The guns that were found at the scene were directly linked to the crime, regardless of the partisan spin you want to put on it... Those "walked" guns WERE part of the murder of Brian Terry. It doesn't matter if ONLY one had a gun, the way the Law IS written.

Your point is irrelevant to my point. How many guns were at the Brian Terry shooting? Apparently more than the TWO gunwalking AKs; otherwise, the fact that the FBI can't get a ballistics match on the TWO AKs would be irrelevant.

No it wouldn't. Those two guns were involved in the death of Brian Terry. whether their ballistics matched, or not... It was the SAME crime.

 

[Lakhota]

And yet Holder says himself that Fast and Furious began under the Obama administration, while saying that Wide Receiver was a program begun under Bush. Listen to the video that was posted by Darkwind earlier.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

He didn't say the Obama administration started it.

Come on people. We know about Reagan and secret weapons deals. We know about Bush and all of his schemes. Remember, a covert CIA agent was "outed" on his watch and he had to use executive privilege 6 times and there were no "witchhunts".

Does "gunrunning" sound anything like something the Obama administration would do? Remember, this is the guy who worked with generals who planned out getting Bin Laden. This is what's called a "careful" thinker. "No Drama Obama". So Obama is going to be part of this harebrained scheme. Bush I can see. But Obama? Give me a break.

Absolutely... The main premise of F&F was to provide weapons to Mexicans, then disingenuously "discover" that America was providing guns to Mexicans ,so Liberal "advancements" could be made in curtailing Americans Second Amendment Rights. Strange how the the anti gun crowd has been "conveniently" quiet since F&F was exposed, isn't it. Bush you can "see"... But Obama? I'd suggest that if you take your partisan blinders off, your vision might improve.

It's loons like you that caused me to cancel my NRA membership after about 30 years. When gunwalking was taking place under Bush, what were his motives? A secret plot to ban guns?

 

[tjvh]

He didn't say the Obama administration started it.

Come on people. We know about Reagan and secret weapons deals. We know about Bush and all of his schemes. Remember, a covert CIA agent was "outed" on his watch and he had to use executive privilege 6 times and there were no "witchhunts".

Does "gunrunning" sound anything like something the Obama administration would do? Remember, this is the guy who worked with generals who planned out getting Bin Laden. This is what's called a "careful" thinker. "No Drama Obama". So Obama is going to be part of this harebrained scheme. Bush I can see. But Obama? Give me a break.

Absolutely... The main premise of F&F was to provide weapons to Mexicans, then disingenuously "discover" that America was providing guns to Mexicans ,so Liberal "advancements" could be made in curtailing Americans Second Amendment Rights. Strange how the the anti gun crowd has been "conveniently" quiet since F&F was exposed, isn't it. Bush you can "see"... But Obama? I'd suggest that if you take your partisan blinders off, your vision might improve.

It's loons like you that caused me to cancel my NRA membership after about 30 years. When gunwalking was taking place under Bush, what were his motives? A secret plot to ban guns?

Loons like me? That is the cue you have completely lost the ability to respond with any sort of rational thinking, now predictably you deflect to BOOOOOSH. I've based my responses on Criminal Law and objective reasoning, and you cannot accept facts in your vain attempt to defend the indefensible. It's the Leftist mantra... Lose an argument, then resort to cowardly name calling... What's next? Profanity. You "loons" are so predictable.

 

[Lakhota]

Loons should read this...

The Wild Conspiracy Theory Driving The Fast And Furious Investigation | ThinkProgress

 

[bripat9643]

If Holder didn't know, then he is incompetent and should immediately be shitcanned.

Come on. You think Republicans haven't tried to keep secret from Obama all the things they do? They kept the cost of the war secret from the American people.

No they didn't, you stupid turd. Bush had to get Congressional approval every year for all spending on the war. How could that possibly have been kept a secret?

 

[bripat9643]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.

Piffle.

If we're gonna have that as the standard, how about when Ronnie Ray-Gun got away with Iran Contra by repeating, over and over again, "I don't know, I don't recall, I can't remember"?

Which is worse - the the commander in chief didn't know wtf was going on or couldn't remember?

How about we have the same standards for both left and right?

Heh - never happen. If we did that, we'd have to fire about one third of the Republican congress.

He said he couldn't remember years afterwards when he was no longer president at the trial of Poindexter and Ollie North. How many times did that dingbat Hillary claim she couldn't remember when she testified before a grand jury? I think it was a total of 157 times.

 

[Charles_Main]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

And yet Holder says himself that Fast and Furious began under the Obama administration, while saying that Wide Receiver was a program begun under Bush. Listen to the video that was posted by Darkwind earlier.

Holder contradicts Bush did it too.wmv - YouTube

He didn't say the Obama administration started it.

Come on people. We know about Reagan and secret weapons deals. We know about Bush and all of his schemes. Remember, a covert CIA agent was "outed" on his watch and he had to use executive privilege 6 times and there were no "witchhunts".

Does "gunrunning" sound anything like something the Obama administration would do? Remember, this is the guy who worked with generals who planned out getting Bin Laden. This is what's called a "careful" thinker. "No Drama Obama". So Obama is going to be part of this harebrained scheme. Bush I can see. But Obama? Give me a break.

I don't think Obama knew about it until it Blew up Myself, But I think Holder did, and at some point Told Obama. How Early who knows, But now Obama is Covering for Holder which IMO Pretty fucking bad too. lol

 

[bripat9643]

It's loons like you that caused me to cancel my NRA membership after about 30 years. When gunwalking was taking place under Bush, what were his motives? A secret plot to ban guns?

A major left-wing loon like you was in the NRA?

Yeah, we believe that.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If Holder didn't know, then he is incompetent and should immediately be shitcanned.

That is bullshit.

 

[salem.hills]

It's loons like you that caused me to cancel my NRA membership after about 30 years. When gunwalking was taking place under Bush, what were his motives? A secret plot to ban guns?

A major left-wing loon like you was in the NRA?

Yeah, we believe that.

No Bush's administration had tracking devices on the weapons and once the cartel figured that out the Bush administration ended the program saying to dangerous never again. See the Bush had tracking measures. I shouldn't have to explain any further but liberals need a picture paintedfor them. Obviously the Obamabots found out about this and immediately renamed and opened it with ZERO tracking devices as insurance. They never arrested anyone and some ATF agents blew the whistle. Now if your honest or smart enough you'd know your liberal masters hate guns. Enough to manufacture crimes? Seems so ........I think libs just hate, period. That's what's up Obama and Holder are 95% likely to be responsible for this murderous treason. Not surprising to knowledgeable followers of the American liberals (repubs) and Communists (Dems).

 

[Too Tall]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.


I have a hard fucking time believing that Holder had no clue about an operation that delivered a shitload of guns from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels and resulted in hundreds of murders including that of a Border Patrol agent.

If he didn't, he needs to go, along with the people who did this behind his back.

Why do you say that? Bush kept the cost of the two wars from the American people for years. The way these Republicans hate both Obama and Holder, I'm sure there are lots of things they weren't told. Hell, Republicans have publicly stated they want this president to fail. Information is power. So is keeping it secret. We know Republicans hate Obama more than they love America. That's a given.

You are a lying shithead, and I very seldom use profanity. The cost of the wars was paid for with supplemental appropriations that were publicly voted on by the US Congress. And they were passed with an overwhelming majority

The Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009 (Pub.L. 111-32, H.R. 2346, enacted June 24, 2009) is a United States federal law appropriating public funds for spending in the Iraq War and Afghanistan War during the 2009 fiscal year.

The bill passed the U.S. House of Representatives, 368-60, on May 14, then passed the U.S. Senate with an amendment on May 21, 86-3.

Bush couldn't keep a program secret that didn't exist during his Administration.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives launched Fast and Furious in 2009 as part of a program to track guns sold in the United States to Mexican drug cartels.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives: ATF and Congress under the gun - latimes.com

The only hatred I see is your hatred of Bush. You are either ignorant of the facts or a damned liar.

The only hatred I have is saved for the incompetence in our government that is destroying the America that I love.

 

[Too Tall]

There were FIVE Mexicans involved in that shootout. Did only TWO of them have guns?

Let me give you an example, based upon FACTS. If there are five criminals and they rob a bank, and ONE of those criminals shoots a Bank Teller and kills that teller, and all five get arrested. Guess what? ALL FIVE get charged with murder... That is how the Law works. The guns that were found at the scene were directly linked to the crime, regardless of the partisan spin you want to put on it... Those "walked" guns WERE part of the murder of Brian Terry. It doesn't matter if ONLY one had a gun, the way the Law IS written.

Your point is irrelevant to my point. How many guns were at the Brian Terry shooting? Apparently more than the TWO gunwalking AKs; otherwise, the fact that the FBI can't get a ballistics match on the TWO AKs would be irrelevant.

The ballistics could not be determined to match ANY AK because the bullet was so badly damaged.