OH MY GAWD! What if Holder didn't know about ATF gunwalking?

[rdean]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

 

[hjmick]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.


I have a hard fucking time believing that Holder had no clue about an operation that delivered a shitload of guns from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels and resulted in hundreds of murders including that of a Border Patrol agent.

If he didn't, he needs to go, along with the people who did this behind his back.

 

[rdean]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.


I have a hard fucking time believing that Holder had no clue about an operation that delivered a shitload of guns from the U.S. to Mexican drug cartels and resulted in hundreds of murders including that of a Border Patrol agent.

If he didn't, he needs to go, along with the people who did this behind his back.

Why do you say that? Bush kept the cost of the two wars from the American people for years. The way these Republicans hate both Obama and Holder, I'm sure there are lots of things they weren't told. Hell, Republicans have publicly stated they want this president to fail. Information is power. So is keeping it secret. We know Republicans hate Obama more than they love America. That's a given.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[whitehall]

Fine, why doesn't he just produce the documents congress subpoenaed and be done with it? We learned from Watergate that the cover up is worse than the crime. Holder is no legal genius, he is a lock-step left wing zombie like the rest of the cabinet including a treasury secretary who didn't pay income tax because he didn't know how to fill out the forms so maybe he is unaware that he is creating the image of corruption.

 

[Charles_Main]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

And yet the WH Press Secretary Credits Holder with Personally Ending F&F months before he admits to knowing about it. lol

I mean wow a Former Aide Says he didn't know, it must be true. Call off the Investigation.

lol

Either He knew, and is a Criminal, Or he didn't know and is incompetent. Take your pick.

 

[Charles_Main]

Fine, why doesn't he just produce the documents congress subpoenaed and be done with it? We learned from Watergate that the cover up is worse than the crime. Holder is no legal genius, he is a lock-step left wing zombie like the rest of the cabinet including a treasury secretary who didn't pay income tax because he didn't know how to fill out the forms so maybe he is unaware that he is creating the image of corruption.

Automatic, Computer Software Forms at that. He Actually had to check a box that said no, I do not have this type of Income to Report, when he in fact did. lol

 

[francoHFW]

I am shocked, shocked, that Pubs, the PPM, and the dupes are FOS as always...They should be investigating the ATF but that wouldn't follow their BS story line.

Strangely, Obama and Holder believe in facts and the law. A) Issa et al want stuff they haven't shown they need, since they're totally FOS propagandists, and B) they've asked for Grand jury and wiretap transcripts, which it would be ILLEGAL to hand over.

Lying Pubs and brainwashed dupes= the modern world's worst party...

 

[rdean]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet the very same memo you posted says the operation started in September of 2009. That means this entire operation with started WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE of Eric Holder. The second memo has no mention of Holder in any of the addresses listed.
The third memo is completely blacked out.

Further on in the story:

Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.

ATF named the case "Fast and Furious."

See? AFT named the case. Not the Justice Department.

And at the end of the article, it says, "The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General."

You see what I mean? We aren't going to know what the truth is. But how did Holder put together such an enormous operation so soon after he became Attorney General, and in a "pro-Bush, pro-Republican" area where all Republicans want to do is block the Obama administration?

It doesn't pass the "smell" test. Even you have to admit that. And next time, read your links.

 

[whitehall]

The french might not understand but the death of a US Border Patrol officer shot in the back in the line of duty is no B.S. The facts are that the Attorney General might be the top law-enforcement officer in the Country but he is not above the law. He cannot refuse a congressional subpoena even if he has a little army of ignorant lefties who support his decision.

 

[Lakhota]

Sounds like gunwalking was a stupid clusterfuck - under Bush and Obama. However, it is my understanding that the bullet that killed Brian Terry cannot be definitively matched ballistically to either of the two gunwalking guns found at the scene.

 

[Si modo]

If Holder didn't know, then he is incompetent and should immediately be shitcanned.

 

[rdean]

Fine, why doesn't he just produce the documents congress subpoenaed and be done with it? We learned from Watergate that the cover up is worse than the crime. Holder is no legal genius, he is a lock-step left wing zombie like the rest of the cabinet including a treasury secretary who didn't pay income tax because he didn't know how to fill out the forms so maybe he is unaware that he is creating the image of corruption.

The same reason many of the documents couldn't be produced when the Bush administration outed a covert CIA agent. We know it's treason, but documents couldn't be produced because it jeopardized ongoing operations.

If Issa really wanted to get to the bottom of this, he would have subpoenaed the people who actually started the program. This is a political attack on Holder. If Holder proves he knew nothing about this program and moved to stop it when he found out, and coming from a Republican area, it will be a disaster for Republicans.

The question is, what could Holder possibly gain from such a ridiculous operation? Republicans I understand because they do so many really dumb things.

 

[rdean]

If Holder didn't know, then he is incompetent and should immediately be shitcanned.

Come on. You think Republicans haven't tried to keep secret from Obama all the things they do? They kept the cost of the war secret from the American people.

 

[francoHFW]

This will end up as nothing but Pub lies and propaganda, over in a week, yet the Pubs and dupes will refer to it as a true scandal forever- like ACORN, NBPP, you name it. Luckily that's only 40% 0f the voters. A disgrace.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet the very same memo you posted says the operation started in September of 2009. That means this entire operation with started WITHOUT THE KNOWLEDGE of Eric Holder. The second memo has no mention of Holder in any of the addresses listed.
The third memo is completely blacked out.

Further on in the story:

Agent Dodson and other sources say the gun walking strategy was approved all the way up to the Justice Department. The idea was to see where the guns ended up, build a big case and take down a cartel. And it was all kept secret from Mexico.

ATF named the case "Fast and Furious."

See? AFT named the case. Not the Justice Department.

And at the end of the article, it says, "The Justice Department told CBS News that the officials in those emails were talking about a different case started before Eric Holder became Attorney General."

You see what I mean? We aren't going to know what the truth is. But how did Holder put together such an enormous operation so soon after he became Attorney General, and in a "pro-Bush, pro-Republican" area where all Republicans want to do is block the Obama administration?

It doesn't pass the "smell" test. Even you have to admit that. And next time, read your links.

Um, you realize that the WH won't release further corrospondence so we have NO clue when Holder knew, those memo's show he did know before he said he did. Not to mention the FACT the he did know months and months before someone was killed because of the operation. I would not be surprised if further documents did not show the WH knew of innocent civilians being murdered with the weapons in Mexico.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That means Holder is shit as a leader of the DOJ and should resign his position.

Piffle.

If we're gonna have that as the standard, how about when Ronnie Ray-Gun got away with Iran Contra by repeating, over and over again, "I don't know, I don't recall, I can't remember"?

Which is worse - the the commander in chief didn't know wtf was going on or couldn't remember?

How about we have the same standards for both left and right?

Heh - never happen. If we did that, we'd have to fire about one third of the Republican congress.

 

[HUGGY]

Matthew Miller. formerly a top aide to Eric Holder was just interviewed on TV.

Top Aide to Holder Is Leaving Justice Dept. - Washington Wire - WSJ

The Ed Schultz Show

Mr. Miller said all of these operations were started under Bush and they continued at a low level without the knowledge of Obama Administration officials. In fact, he said the head of the ATF (The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives) stated, under oath, that he never told Holder of the operation. He said the very day Holder was informed of the operation, he issued an order for this operation to stop.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone understand what that means? It means that Holder learned of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry's death before he even heard of "Operation Gun Runner".

And the most damning comment of all. Mr. Miller said that Darrell Issa has all of this information but refused to let the former head of the ATF testfy.

If this is true, the Mitt will hit the fan. This far ahead of the election, all the facts will come out. Republicans will have a lot of "splainin'" to do. This would have worked better two weeks before the election. But now? When all the facts come out? It's like Shirley Sherrod all over again, but on a larger scale.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010

WASHINGTON - New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress.

ATF Fast and Furious: New documents show Attorney General Eric Holder was briefed in July 2010 - CBS News Investigates - CBS News

Terry was not killed until December 2010.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is a stupid argument. So what? There may still be guns in Mexico and in the U S that were involved in those programs. There may be violence commited with them far into the future.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Dean you dont know anything, why arent you AG? You meet the qualifications.

 

[signelect]

It is so easy to blame, the fact is thed POTUS said he would change things for the better not just the things he screwed up but all thing. Holder should have know even if he didn't do it. Lets quite be stupid and get these guys out of there. I am not talking just about Obama and his merry band of misfit but all of them. We are being screwed by the very people we elect on both sides of the aisle.