Objecting to jihad, will liberals ever?

[syrenn]

I think I obscured my point in my analogy. You would be safe if you followed all the tenets of Islam, as they interpret them. Anything less makes you an apostate, and under a death sentence.

Imagine that!

 

[ConHog]

Islam dogma in everything liberals claim to hate about Christians.
But it is confirmed by scripture the final solution is right there its ,death,
You cant get that from the NT which over rules the OT.
So Islam calls 4 the death of gay folk
people who are not muslims ,
Anyone who disagrees with or objects to Islamic rules as being the rule of law.
When will those self proclaimed liberals stand up for western culture against Islam ,or is the real threat the jews?

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.
I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

When will you liberals fight against Islam ?

Right wingers are such sorry fucks. It's liberals that protested Republicans helping make Iraq a theocracy by constitution. We had Iraq over a "gun barrel" and then let them put this into their constitution:

First from their preamble:

Acknowledging God's right over us, and in fulfillment of the call of our homeland and citizens, and in response to the call of our religious and national leaderships and the determination of our great (religious) authorities

Then:

Article 2:
First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:
A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

And worst of all. Republicans supported them having a "public option":

Article 31:

First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The state takes care of public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and medical institutions.

Second: Individuals and institutions may build hospitals or clinics or places for treatment with the supervision of the state and this shall be regulated by law.

Full Text of Iraqi Constitution - washingtonpost.com

I don't know what it is with Republicans. Insisting Iraq had the type of army we thought they had when we invaded. Replacing an awful government with an even worse hard right Islamic Theocracy. What is wrong with them???? If it weren't for liberals, we would be a "Christian Taliban", believe it.

You're so full of shit.

Oh and the reason the right let them have their state sponsored religion even though "we had them over a barrel" is because it's their freaking government. Not ours to be dictating to. nice to know that you want to invade sovereign nations and dictate to them what kind of government and religion they should practice.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Two mistakes in two sentences. Does this mean all your sentences are wrong?

I'm not a Christian. I don't really read the bible that much. Do you have a response to my post, or would you rather just continue being a pedantic asshole?

Since someone has already proved that Leviticus is not the only reference to homosexuals in the Bible, one can assume from my statement that Christians do not hate homosexuals.

FYI, I prefer the term smart ass, a pedantic asshole is much more limited in scope, and sounds pretentious.

There are many types of smart ass. A pedantic asshole is just one type - the type that you were being. (i.e. focusing on minor factual problems rather than the thesis of my post).

And my comments on Leviticus were not what I was referring to when I asked you for a response.

You have since responded to the post that I was talking about, though.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I think the idea of allowing ilsamic laws to exist here in the US is wrong. We have one law and that goes for muslims and non muslims. If they dont like it go than go to where that law does apply.

There is a difference between muslim presence and muslum law. I have no problem with them being here so long as they do not EVER try and make the US a muslim state or try an change our laws to accommodate islam.

How about this, want to ask the new miss America if she wants to go home. Do you really think her parading around in public in a swimsuit showing her hair would fly?

The Imam who is building this new mosque near ground zero in NYC has written books advocating Sharia law in the USA. So they are here, and they DO want to live by their own laws.

Back up your statement.

Imam Feisal Abdul RaufChairman, Cordoba Initiative
Posted April 24, 2009 | 12:53 PM (EST)
BIOBecome a Fan Get Email AlertsBloggers' Index
What Shariah Law Is All About

We hear a lot about "firebrand" Muslim clerics calling for the installation of Shariah law. It conjures images of women being stoned and forced into hiding behind burkas and denied educations. We think of beheadings and amputations as a form of justice. And we cringe.

But it is important that we understand what is meant by Shariah law. Islamic law is about God's law, and it is not that far from what we read in the Declaration of Independence about "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God." The Declaration says "men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

At the core of Shariah law are God's commandments, revealed in the Old Testament and revised in the New Testament and the Quran. The principles behind American secular law are similar to Shariah law - that we protect life, liberty and property, that we provide for the common welfare, that we maintain a certain amount of modesty.

What Muslims want is to ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf: What Shariah Law Is All About

We dont need to go into the obvious lies he has written, Id say it highlights the problem nicely

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not only that, but the socio-economic conditions of many under-developed countries lead to an environment where violence is more common than in developed nations. The violent acts of radicals are rare and abhorrent to us, but we don't live in the same conditions as those other countries where violence is more widespread. A robbery in the ghetto won't draw the same shock in the community as a robbery in the suburbs.

And how much of a voice does the average Muslim have in countries where wealth and power have such a stark division. Who has greater control of the message in those countries; the average Abdul, or the oil-rich oligarchs and the religious leaders who use excerpts of religious text as a means of control and is employed by radical and loud minorities?

Avoiding the broad-brush of 'Moslems iz evel' is based on an understanding of relative perspective and that not every country enjoys the same conditions as America, but that nuance is getting in the way of predetermined tirades in this thread.

Wow, the old poverty causes violence red herring. When are liberals going to drop this stupid bullshit, and admit that violence is endemic across all socio economic classes. If poverty was the root cause of violence then every poor country on Earth would be over run with internal strife and violence.

You folks really need to take a look at the world the way it really is, and not the way your textbooks teach you it is. The level of poverty in China is as bad, or worse, than it is anywhere in the Middle East, how many Chinese Radical Buddhists are coming over here and flying planes into buildings. Much of Africa is poor and impoverished, yet you rarely see them packing explosives under their clothes and blowing themselves up on buses.

Wake up and smell the shit. Your theories do not fit the facts in the real world.

 

[bodecea]

Am I to assume that everyone here agrees that we should not be living under ANY religious law in this country? Correct?

Do you mean do I want religious courts using a religious book to make law? The answer is no, and I don't care which religion it is. Do you mean do I want our Judea/Christian BASED laws to be kept in effect, then yes.

Our laws are Judea/Christian based? How so? Please explain that base for us.

 

[nraforlife]

............
There is a difference between muslim presence and muslum law. .................................

Sharia and jihad are the absolute bedrock of islime. They are what makes a moslem moslem. They may lie and smile while weak (lying to a non-moslem is no sin for them) BUT......once they gain strength you WILL submit and pay the jiz tax, convert or DIE.

............I have no problem with them being here so long as they do not EVER try and make the US a muslim state or try an change our laws to accommodate islam.

.................................

The are doing THAT right now in places like Deerbornistan. Look around ya.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The Imam who is building this new mosque near ground zero in NYC has written books advocating Sharia law in the USA. So they are here, and they DO want to live by their own laws.

Back up your statement.

Imam Feisal Abdul RaufChairman, Cordoba Initiative
Posted April 24, 2009 | 12:53 PM (EST)
BIOBecome a Fan Get Email AlertsBloggers' Index
What Shariah Law Is All About

We hear a lot about "firebrand" Muslim clerics calling for the installation of Shariah law. It conjures images of women being stoned and forced into hiding behind burkas and denied educations. We think of beheadings and amputations as a form of justice. And we cringe.

But it is important that we understand what is meant by Shariah law. Islamic law is about God's law, and it is not that far from what we read in the Declaration of Independence about "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God." The Declaration says "men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

At the core of Shariah law are God's commandments, revealed in the Old Testament and revised in the New Testament and the Quran. The principles behind American secular law are similar to Shariah law - that we protect life, liberty and property, that we provide for the common welfare, that we maintain a certain amount of modesty.

What Muslims want is to ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf: What Shariah Law Is All About

We dont need to go into the obvious lies he has written, Id say it highlights the problem nicely

I'd say it highlights your personal biases pretty nicely.

What's wrong with what he said?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I think you missed the point of what Brennan was saying entirely. But still, there's no "support" of jihad in that statement.

Brennan was advising against the use of the term "jihad" because it legitimizes the enemy's tactics, not because he "supports" jihadism.

Its a long way from'


Thus our strategy must match our means to two ends: dismantling the al
Qaeda network and, in the long term, prevailing over the ideology that contributes
to Islamist terrorism.
page 22 of 31 of 911 summary
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/22_07_04911execsum.pdf
In addition to making anticipated findings on the 2001 plot and recommendations for homeland security, the commission offered a series of foreign policy prescriptions to correct what it suggests is an unbalanced global strategy. The effort is to shift the government away from focusing on what the report calls a "generic evil," and toward a more precise definition of the threat.

The report argues that the nation's enemy consists of two parts: al Qaeda -- a stateless network of terrorists that is "weakened but continues to pose a grave threat" -- and a radical ideological movement in the Islamic world that "is gathering and will menace Americans and American interests long after" Osama bin Laden is gone.

"The enemy goes beyond al-Qaeda to include the radical ideological movement inspired in part by al-Qaeda that has spawned other terrorist groups," the report said. It calls not only for the dismantling of al-Qaeda but an ideological battle against fundamentalist Islam.

 

[nraforlife]

I think I would rather be dead than a WOMAN under islamic law. I would rather kill my girls before they had to live under islamic law.

Soooooo, would it not be better to be about the work of utterly removing the moslem presence from North America NOW before differential birth rates make that impossible?

Sounds like what the Nazis wanted to do to the Jews of Europe...utterly remove the Jewish presence.

Sounds like you are a nutty anti-American Leftist.

 

[syrenn]

Doesn't England now allow sharia laws?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

When did I talk about appeasement? I don't advocate appeasement, I just don't hate all Muslims, and I don't think they're all plotting against us, like the OP. That was the thesis of my statement.

No, you reacted like a typical liberal apologist.

Islam dogma in everything liberals claim to hate about Christians.
But it is confirmed by scripture the final solution is right there its ,death,
You cant get that from the NT which over rules the OT.
So Islam calls 4 the death of gay folk
people who are not muslims ,
Anyone who disagrees with or objects to Islamic rules as being the rule of law.
When will those self proclaimed liberals stand up for western culture against Islam ,or is the real threat the jews?

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.
I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

When will you liberals fight against Islam ?

This post does not claim that all Muslims are plotting against us, it points out that Islam teaches that non believers should be killed. You react by defending Muslims, and ignoring facts. You even try to point out that Christians are no different, ignoring the fact that none of the teachings of Jesus advocate killing in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What's wrong with what he said?

I doubt you will be able to find the difference

The Declaration says "men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Islam

2:190.
And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].
2:191.
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192.
But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[rikules]

Am I to assume that everyone here agrees that we should not be living under ANY religious law in this country? Correct?

Do you mean do I want religious courts using a religious book to make law? The answer is no, and I don't care which religion it is. Do you mean do I want our Judea/Christian BASED laws to be kept in effect, then yes.

Our laws are Judea/Christian based? How so? Please explain that base for us.

BEFORE we became the U.S. of good ole A there were biblical laws in place;

you could be fined for nonattendance of church (my ancestors paid a lot of money for this crime)

and of course.....the salem witch trials....

AFTER we became the good ole USA there were still some religious based laws enacted;
blue laws, stores closed on sunday....

but most of those are ignored now
many of them have been overturned

as you noted; very few of us want our laws to be based on ANY religion.

laws should be based on logic, reason, common sense, common good, necessity.....
NOT religion.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

What's wrong with what he said?

9:111
Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Quran. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.
9:112


(The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who repent to Allah (from polytheism and hypocrisy, etc.), who worship Him, who praise Him, who fast (or go out in Allah's Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (people) for Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all what Islam has ordained) and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar (i.e. disbelief, polytheism of all kinds and all that Islam has forbidden), and who observe the limits set by Allah (do all that Allah has ordained and abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which Allah has forbidden). And give glad tidings to the believers.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

When did I talk about appeasement? I don't advocate appeasement, I just don't hate all Muslims, and I don't think they're all plotting against us, like the OP. That was the thesis of my statement.

No, you reacted like a typical liberal apologist.

Really? Who was I apologizing for?

Islam dogma in everything liberals claim to hate about Christians.
But it is confirmed by scripture the final solution is right there its ,death,
You cant get that from the NT which over rules the OT.
So Islam calls 4 the death of gay folk
people who are not muslims ,
Anyone who disagrees with or objects to Islamic rules as being the rule of law.
When will those self proclaimed liberals stand up for western culture against Islam ,or is the real threat the jews?

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.
I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

When will you liberals fight against Islam ?

This post does not claim that all Muslims are plotting against us, it points out that Islam teaches that non believers should be killed. You react by defending Muslims, and ignoring facts.

The only "fact" I was ignoring is the claim that all Muslims are plotting against us. So yes, I was defending Muslims. I have many Muslim friends, and I was defending them from the hate-speech of the OP.

You even try to point out that Christians are no different, ignoring the fact that none of the teachings of Jesus advocate killing in any way, shape, or form.

The OP asks "when will you liberals fight against Islam". I believe that statement to be ridiculously prejudiced. The literal reading of the Islamic texts is as ridiculous as a literal reading of the Old Testament, which is what I was referring to.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Every time an imam speaks up and calls for the extermination of Israel, and liberals blame Israel for oppressing Palestine, they support jihad.

Not sucking Israel's dick on every single issue is NOT supporting Jihad, no matter how much you try and make it so.

When Israel is wrong, call them on it. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with ignoring facts, like the fact that Israel gave the West Bank to the Palestinians despite a demonstrated history of them using it to launch attacks against their country. What happened after they pulled out, and forcibly removed their own people from the only homes many of them had ever had?

Another fact. Hamas has openly and repeatedly stated that their only goal is the elimination of Israel as a state, yet liberals insist that Israel sit down and treat these people as equal partners in negotiations. Would you negotiate with someone who wanted to kill you?

I think the blockade of Gaza is stupid because it is not accomplishing its stated goals, and that Israel should change its tactics, That does not mean I think Israel has to allow Hamas to build up a supply of missiles and bombs to attack Israel.

 

[rikules]

............
There is a difference between muslim presence and muslum law. .................................

Sharia and jihad are the absolute bedrock of islime. They are what makes a moslem moslem. They may lie and smile while weak (lying to a non-moslem is no sin for them) BUT......once they gain strength you WILL submit and pay the jiz tax, convert or DIE.

............I have no problem with them being here so long as they do not EVER try and make the US a muslim state or try an change our laws to accommodate islam.

.................................

The are doing THAT right now in places like Deerbornistan. Look around ya.

while at the very same time organizations of evangelical christians are ALL OVER THE PLANET (including islamic countries) trying to convert EVERYONE (people AND governments) to christianity.....


if muslims have no right to try and convert christians
why do christians have a right to convert muslims?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

What's wrong with what he said?

I doubt you will be able to find the difference

The Declaration says "men are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Islam

2:190.
And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].
2:191.
And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192.
But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
The Noble Quran : Surat 2

let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn
let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

You can't use literal readings to prove that all Islam follows them.

 

[rdean]

Islam dogma in everything liberals claim to hate about Christians.
But it is confirmed by scripture the final solution is right there its ,death,
You cant get that from the NT which over rules the OT.
So Islam calls 4 the death of gay folk
people who are not muslims ,
Anyone who disagrees with or objects to Islamic rules as being the rule of law.
When will those self proclaimed liberals stand up for western culture against Islam ,or is the real threat the jews?

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.
I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

I really want to know , there is no debate points on this.

Islam calls for your death if you are not a muslim or do not wish to live a a slave under Islamic law.

When will you liberals fight against Islam ?

Right wingers are such sorry fucks. It's liberals that protested Republicans helping make Iraq a theocracy by constitution. We had Iraq over a "gun barrel" and then let them put this into their constitution:

First from their preamble:

Acknowledging God's right over us, and in fulfillment of the call of our homeland and citizens, and in response to the call of our religious and national leaderships and the determination of our great (religious) authorities

Then:

Article 2:
First: Islam is the official religion of the State and it is a fundamental source of legislation:
A. No law that contradicts the established provisions of Islam may be established.

And worst of all. Republicans supported them having a "public option":

Article 31:

First: Every citizen has the right to health care. The state takes care of public health and provide the means of prevention and treatment by building different types of hospitals and medical institutions.

Second: Individuals and institutions may build hospitals or clinics or places for treatment with the supervision of the state and this shall be regulated by law.

Full Text of Iraqi Constitution - washingtonpost.com

I don't know what it is with Republicans. Insisting Iraq had the type of army we thought they had when we invaded. Replacing an awful government with an even worse hard right Islamic Theocracy. What is wrong with them???? If it weren't for liberals, we would be a "Christian Taliban", believe it.

You're so full of shit.

Oh and the reason the right let them have their state sponsored religion even though "we had them over a barrel" is because it's their freaking government. Not ours to be dictating to. nice to know that you want to invade sovereign nations and dictate to them what kind of government and religion they should practice.

It was their freaking government when we invaded moron. So we helped them to replace what they had with something WORSE? And our government doesn't tell anyone what kind of religion we should practice. Theirs does, at least it does NOW.

Do you guys even bother to read what nonsense you write?