Obamacare Tax CUTS - family of 4 making 88k or less

[Jackson]

The next two ears will tell the story if the law is not repealed. Each and everyone on this board will be affected in some way and each will have their own story to tell.

So, what seems to be a boondoggle might please some and anger others. Why haven't we done something about the high cost of medicine, i.e., the malpractice suits and medical care of illegal immigrants within our borders. It seems like the natural target is to attack the problem where it originated. Where was Congress?

 

[Avorysuds]

So who gets to pay for these tax credits? I mean, you can't take on more people and claim it won't cost anything, then on top of that hand out "tax credits" to certain groups of people and still claim it's not going to cost people anything, in fact claim it will save them money...

It really does not matter, like all Government welfare programs Obamacare will soon be one of the top most expensive programs adding to our growing deficit. The end is truly coming and I honestly don’t believe the US like Italy and others will do anything about it until we actually are forced to admit we are bankrupt.

 

[The Professor]

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Premium Tax Credits


Since Republicans are opposed to the PPACA - this is my recommendation. Take whatever tax cut you get from it, find the richest person you know, and give it to them, so they can make jobs.

Do you know the difference between a tax credit and a tax cut?

Yeah one lowers my tax burden, the other lowers my tax burden.

Not necessarily.

There is an important difference between a tax cut and a tax credit. If your taxes are cut by $2,000 you will receive a benefit equal to the amount of the decrease. For example, if you would ordinarily have gotten a refund of $5,000, you would get a refund of $7,000 with a tax cut of $2,000. If you owed taxes of $6,000, you would owe only $4,000 if you got a $2,000 tax cut.

But, if instead of getting a $2,000 tax cut, you received a $2,000 tax credit, the benefit you receive would be much less than $2,000. The only thing a tax credit does is reduce the amount of your taxable income, meaning you have less income to be taxed. To keep things simple, suppose your tax rate is 10%. Since you don't have to pay taxes on the $2,000 you save $200. Basically, a tax cut puts $2,000 in your pocket, but a tax credit puts in only $200. Some people would not be able to get any advantage from a tax credit because they have no taxable income even without this additional credit and taxable income can never be reduced below zero.

There is an exception for REFUNDABLE credits. These credits, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC), are treated the same as as payments you made to the IRS. If your EITC is $2,000 you receive the full benefit of that amount no matter what. For example, if you would ordinarily have received a refund of $4,000, with the EITC added you would receive a refund of $6,000. If you would ordinarily have owed the IRS $500, your EITC would pay that obligation and you would also get a refund of $1,500.

I hope that explains it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

For the record, a tax credit is an amount of money that can be offset against a tax liability. A tax cut is an actual reduction in the tax liability. A tax credit is available to people who meet a certain guidelines, a tax cut is available to everyone.

In that case, the individual mandate isn't a tax increase, because it applies only "to people who meet a certain guidelines"


But hey - I don't expect the right to ever be consistent with anything.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The health reform legislation passed in March 2010 (officially the “Patient
Protection and Affordable Care Act,” but more commonly referred to as
“ObamaCare&#8221 was supposed to stop the rapid increase of health insurance
prices and slow national spending on health care. Yet today many analysts
believe that average insurance premiums will be driven higher and national
spending on health care will increase faster, not slower, because of the new law.
The new health law requires that all insurance policies contain “minimum
essential coverage.” That means individuals will no longer decide what level
of coverage is right for them. Instead, the government will decide. As a result,
many Americans will have to purchase policies that cover treatments they don’t
want or need—and that will cost them more.
http://iwf.org/files/34861c37dc46ceeba8b59ae93ed90e45.pdf

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The only thing a tax credit does is reduce the amount of your taxable income...

Uhhh .... no. Sorry, you're wrong. And fucking stupid. Really stupid.


Quantum Windbag- you want to explain to this complete moron the difference between a tax credit and a deduction - or do you only look down your nose at lefties you deem unfit?

 

[Charles_Main]

if he did everything they wanted done tomarrow they would still hate him.

LOL keep telling yourself that.

it don't matter he is a failure, because even if he was a winner people would still hate him. Do you know how stupid you sound?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

if he did everything they wanted done tomarrow they would still hate him.

LOL keep telling yourself that.

it don't matter he is a failure, because even if he was a winner people would still hate him. Do you know how stupid you sound?

He is a winner. 365 electoral votes prove it.

I think Truthmatters's point is that the right hates Obama just because he's Obama. Doesn't matter what his policies are. Even if he is for giving tax breaks to the middle class - they hate him for it. That's not really inconsistent though, I guess, since the right hates the middle class (or redefines it to include only the top income earners)

 

[Stephanie]

if he did everything they wanted done tomarrow they would still hate him.

LOL keep telling yourself that.

it don't matter he is a failure, because even if he was a winner people would still hate him. Do you know how stupid you sound?

He is a winner. 365 electoral votes prove it.

I think Truthmatters's point is that the right hates Obama just because he's Obama. Doesn't matter what his policies are. Even if he is for giving tax breaks to the middle class - they hate him for it. That's not really inconsistent though, I guess, since the right hates the middle class (or redefines it to include only the top income earners)

well if that's the case, then you lefties love Obama just because he's Obama..and you all hate the middle class because you champion all the new taxes that have heaped on us by your dear leader

 

[bigrebnc1775]

if he did everything they wanted done tomarrow they would still hate him.

If he did everything we wanted tomorrow it would be too late, he has had 3 and a half years to do what we want, and even if he some how did manage to do what we want he has shown he doesn't have a problem writing and executive order changing things.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

For the record, a tax credit is an amount of money that can be offset against a tax liability. A tax cut is an actual reduction in the tax liability. A tax credit is available to people who meet a certain guidelines, a tax cut is available to everyone.

In that case, the individual mandate isn't a tax increase, because it applies only "to people who meet a certain guidelines"


But hey - I don't expect the right to ever be consistent with anything.

Tell that to the Supreme Court, I am sure they will be happy to here the USMB resident expert in taxes and cosmology correct them.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

if he did everything they wanted done tomarrow they would still hate him.

LOL keep telling yourself that.

it don't matter he is a failure, because even if he was a winner people would still hate him. Do you know how stupid you sound?

He is a winner. 365 electoral votes prove it.

I think Truthmatters's point is that the right hates Obama just because he's Obama. Doesn't matter what his policies are. Even if he is for giving tax breaks to the middle class - they hate him for it. That's not really inconsistent though, I guess, since the right hates the middle class (or redefines it to include only the top income earners)

That just proves he can win a popularity contest.

 

[The Professor]

The only thing a tax credit does is reduce the amount of your taxable income...

Uhhh .... no. Sorry, you're wrong. And fucking stupid. Really stupid.


Quantum Windbag- you want to explain to this complete moron the difference between a tax credit and a deduction - or do you only look down your nose at lefties you deem unfit?

We were both wrong!

Non-refundable taxes are not deducted from taxable income as I originally said; instead, they are deducted from tax liability ( taxes owed) if any. But, there is still a difference between a tax cut and a non-refundable tax and

Taxable income is calculated and the amount appears on line 43 of the 1040 Form for tax year 2011. The taxes owed on the taxable income is entered on line 46. Certain credits are allowed on lines 48 to 53. These credits are totaled on Line 54. Line 54 (total credits) is subtracted from Line 46 (taxes) and this amount appears on Line 55; however, this line cannot be less than zero (see instructions for that line).

A tax cut of $2,000 will always give you an extra $2,000; however, a non-refundable credit is limited by your tax liability and could be worth less than $2,000, even zero.

Certain tax credits appear on the 1040 Form as Payments (Lines 65-71. These are what are called refundable tax credits. A $2,000 refundable tax credit will give you an extra $2,000 in the bank.

Not stupid, but the memory is failing. I must be more careful. I'm closing in on 73 and my mind is not as sharp as it once was.

I do apologize.

Again, we were both wrong. If you had said that a particular tax credit was the same as a tax cut, and that credit turned out to be a refundable credit, you would have been correct. However, you made a general statement (or at least you appeared to) that tax credits and tax cuts were the same and that is not necessarily true.

PS: Before I edited this post to remove erroneous information, I insulted you and I apologize for that also. I put the letters MBA and JD after my name and I didn't appreciate being called stupid so I responded in kind. I was wrong.

Here is the link to the 1040 Form:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf?portlet=103

 

[The Professor]

My wife told me I didn't explain myself clearly, so I'll try again.

Suppose that you and your neighbor were both eligible for a Child Tax Credit of $2,000. Would both you and your neighbor receive the same tax advantage from the credit? Not likely. I will give examples, and for simplicity's sake I will assume that no other tax credits apply. The Child Tax Credit (CTC) appears on line 51 of the 1040 Form and is included in the total credits which are shown no line 54. The tax return instructs filers to subtract Line 54 (total credits) from Line 46 (tax liability based on taxable income) and then record the difference on Line 55. Suppose your neighbor has an amount of taxable income which results in a tax liability of $5,000. Your neighbor would subtract the $2,000 credit from his tax liability of $5,000 and recorded the difference of $3,000 on line 55. If no other taxes were owed, this $3,000 would also appear on Line 61 which is the the total tax. If your neighbor had no credits, he would owe taxes of $5,000. But because of the CTC, your neighbor only has to pay taxes of $3,000; therefore, The CTC has given him the equivalent on $2,000 in the bank.

Now suppose you had no taxable income and the amount of tax you show on line 46 is zero. Could you enter the Child Tax Credit on Line 54 and subtract that amount from Line 46. No! No! No! The instructions on Line 55 clearly state: “Subtract line 54 from line 46. If line 54 is more than line 46, enter -0-” (emphasis my own). Your credit can never by more than the tax which appears on line 46. If line 46 is zero, the CTC and all other non-refundable credits are worthless. Here is a link to the 1040 Form:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf?portlet=103

Additionally, the IRS Instructions make it very clear that you tax credit is limited by the amount that appears on Line 46 on the 1040 Form:

“You must reduce your child tax credit if the amount on Form 1040, line 46 is less than the credit. If this amount is zero, you cannot take this credit because there is no tax to reduce.” There are other factors which may reduce the CTC and they can be found at the following link:

Publication 972 (2011), Child Tax Credit

Refundable credits are different. They are treated as payments made to the IRS and are shown on lines 65-71 on the 1040 Form. A refundable credit of $2,000 is the same as $2,000 in the bank.

CONCLUSION: A tax cut of $2,000 is the same thing as getting $2,000 extra in your bank and applies to all taxpayers. A refundable credit of $2,000 is also the same as getting $2,000 in the bank, but not everyone is entitled to refundable credits. A non-refundable credit (such as the CTC) is unavailable to some taxpayers, and is limited by one's tax liability. A CTC or any other non-refundable credit of $2,000 could be worth up to $2,000 but it could be worth less, even zero. Another advantage of a tax cut over a tax credit is you don't need an instruction book to figure it out.

OK, my wife likes this much better, so now I'm done.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Right. Having to pay less taxes isn't a tax cut. Got it.

"Tax cut" means reducing the rates paid for all, not rigging the system with deductions and credits to pander to favored political patrons.

Right. Because paying less taxes isn't a "tax cut". I already got that. Unless, of course, its passed by a right winger.


BTW - I love how eliminating a tax deduction is considered a "tax hike" but created one is not considered a "tax cut". My Lord you righties are nothing but a bunch of shameless etch-a-sketchers.

Do you know the difference between a tax credit and a tax cut? The article you linked clearly says tax credit.

 

[Katzndogz]

WSJ Chief Economist: 75% of Obamacare Costs Will Fall on Backs of Those Making Less Than $120K a Year | Conservative News, Views & Books

Take Your Medicine, America…
Stephen Moore, Senior Economics Writer with the Wall Street Journal, told FOX and Friends this morning that nearly 75% of Obamacare costs will fall on the backs of those Americans making less than $120,000 a year.

 

[WillowTree]

Tax credits and other jimmying of the system to benefit favored constituencies aren't rate cuts.

Blatant lying is a really poor way to get your point across.

Right. Having to pay less taxes isn't a tax cut. Got it.

Tax credits mean someone else is paying your "fair share" idiot.

 

[GHook93]

.

The new tax credits will provide much-needed assistance to insured individuals and families who struggle harder each year to pay rising premiums, as well as to uninsured individuals and families who need help purchasing coverage that otherwise would be completely out of reach financially. Most of the families who will be eligible for the tax credits will be employed, many for small businesses, and will have incomes between two and four times poverty (between $44,100 and $88,200 for a family of four based on 2010 poverty guidelines).

Premium Tax Credits


Since Republicans are opposed to the PPACA - this is my recommendation. Take whatever tax cut you get from it, find the richest person you know, and give it to them, so they can make jobs.

When insurance costs SSSSHOOTTTS through the roof (like they have been doing the last few years since Obaminationcare became law) in 2014 when Obaminationcare is set to kick in, those tax credit will mean SHIT!

 

[Katzndogz]

The people are certainly gullible. The tax cuts are temporary followed by huge permanent tax increases. Right now, people think that the only tax increases are on rich corporations to force them to pay a fair share. In reality, the wage earning is paying the taxes of these same rich corporations.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

LOL keep telling yourself that.

it don't matter he is a failure, because even if he was a winner people would still hate him. Do you know how stupid you sound?

He is a winner. 365 electoral votes prove it.

I think Truthmatters's point is that the right hates Obama just because he's Obama. Doesn't matter what his policies are. Even if he is for giving tax breaks to the middle class - they hate him for it. That's not really inconsistent though, I guess, since the right hates the middle class (or redefines it to include only the top income earners)

well if that's the case, then you lefties love Obama just because he's Obama..and you all hate the middle class because you champion all the new taxes that have heaped on us by your dear leader

Obama hasn't imposed any new taxes on the middle class, moron. In fact he's reduced our tax burden. Even if you refuse to take personal responsibility and pay the mandate penalty tax instead, you still come out ahead with the payroll tax reduction.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hatred and feigned outrage.