Obama - I don't want my daughters "punished with a baby"

[Modbert]

''Once you leave the womb, conservatives don't care about you until you reach military age. Then you're just what they're looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.''

- George Carlin

 

[Ninja]

Nothing worse than a posted who either (1) recites conventional piety or (2) posts witty quotes he didn't think up himself.

 

[Diuretic]

And what makes you think a baby at 27 doesn't require sacrifice.

Alas, Mr. Articulate, ain't. There is a tremendous gulf between the words "punish" and "sacrifice". We punish bad things, we sacrifice for good things. No one could ever sacrifice for a bad thing.

I didn't say a baby at 27 didn't require sacrifice. But since you've brought it up, yes, it does require a sacrifice. But a woman having a baby at 27 has at least had some carefree times, maybe been to university, perhaps as travelled, advanced herself in her career, whatever it was she wanted to do. And she's ready to give up some of her previous freedoms to become a mother and to care for her baby.

Obama obviously meant "punish" in the sense of being forced to have a baby at 17 and then forced to decide whether or not to give up the baby. 17 isn't 27. If the state forces a 17 year old to bring a pregnancy to term, possibly against her will, then that's the state punishing her.

 

[Diuretic]

Either way - both your argument AND his are moronic..

How is it - in ANY WAY a "punishment" to have a baby - at ANY age?

I've addressed this, just working through the thread.

 

[DiveCon]

I didn't say a baby at 27 didn't require sacrifice. But since you've brought it up, yes, it does require a sacrifice. But a woman having a baby at 27 has at least had some carefree times, maybe been to university, perhaps as travelled, advanced herself in her career, whatever it was she wanted to do. And she's ready to give up some of her previous freedoms to become a mother and to care for her baby.

Obama obviously meant "punish" in the sense of being forced to have a baby at 17 and then forced to decide whether or not to give up the baby. 17 isn't 27. If the state forces a 17 year old to bring a pregnancy to term, possibly against her will, then that's the state punishing her.

the state didnt force her to create that baby

 

[Diuretic]

the state didnt force her to create that baby

True, but that's a separate issue from the state forcing her to bring the baby to term. If the state doesn't force her to create the foetus then why should the state step in and tell her, having created the foetus, she should allow the foetus to develop to the point where she has to go into labour and then give birth to the baby? What right over her body does the state have to dictate to her that she will not seek a termination?

 

[Dr Grump]

the state didnt force her to create that baby

And?

 

[DiveCon]

True, but that's a separate issue from the state forcing her to bring the baby to term. If the state doesn't force her to create the foetus then why should the state step in and tell her, having created the foetus, she should allow the foetus to develop to the point where she has to go into labour and then give birth to the baby? What right over her body does the state have to dictate to her that she will not seek a termination?

kinda the same way the state will force you to feed a baby once it is born
otherwise known as neglect if you dont

 

[Dr Grump]

kinda the same way the state will force you to feed a baby once it is born
otherwise known as neglect if you dont

Yeah, because then it is a human being - living an breathing. Almost 99.9 percent of abortions occur within the first trimester when the foetus is just that, a foetus...

 

[DiveCon]

Yeah, because then it is a human being - living an breathing. Almost 99.9 percent of abortions occur within the first trimester when the foetus is just that, a foetus...

its a human being in the womb as well
just at an earlier stage of development

 

[MichaelCollins]

its a human being in the womb as well
just at an earlier stage of development

I just cant understand how you are so passionate for life ...when it comes to abortion...but then you are happy to drop bombs on Iraqi civilians.

Could it be that you dont really care about unborn babies...and you just agree with any extreme right wing opinion?

Just a theory.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

True, but that's a separate issue from the state forcing her to bring the baby to term. If the state doesn't force her to create the foetus then why should the state step in and tell her, having created the foetus, she should allow the foetus to develop to the point where she has to go into labour and then give birth to the baby? What right over her body does the state have to dictate to her that she will not seek a termination?

The same right that the State has to tell you you can not kill your neighbor cause he irritates you or keeps you up at night. The same right that State has to tell you you can not kill another living person simply because it is inconvenient that they exist. Hell the State can arrest you for harming a dog, but hey murdering an unborn child is just fine.

 

[Diuretic]

kinda the same way the state will force you to feed a baby once it is born
otherwise known as neglect if you dont

Not the same case. Once the child is born then yes, it should be cared for and any lack of care is rightly sorted out with an indictment. The state says, you've chosen to have the child, you make sure you look after it.

But that's different from the state forcing the mother to bring the pregnancy to full term.

 

[Diuretic]

The same right that the State has to tell you you can not kill your neighbor cause he irritates you or keeps you up at night. The same right that State has to tell you you can not kill another living person simply because it is inconvenient that they exist. Hell the State can arrest you for harming a dog, but hey murdering an unborn child is just fine.

No Rock, the state says, "you can't do this". But when the state says, "you must do this" and the "this" is being forced to bring a pregnancy to full term, that's the state overstepping its authority. The state has every right to tell someone not to kill, it has no right to force a woman to bring a pregnancy to full term. The state is overbearing the will of that woman.

 

[DiveCon]

No Rock, the state says, "you can't do this". But when the state says, "you must do this" and the "this" is being forced to bring a pregnancy to full term, that's the state overstepping its authority. The state has every right to tell someone not to kill, it has no right to force a woman to bring a pregnancy to full term. The state is overbearing the will of that woman.

no, its the same
the state says no, you cant kill the child within
you chose to create it.

 

[MichaelCollins]

no, its the same
the state says no, you cant kill the child within
you chose to create it.

I just cant equate your passionate drive to save unborn life.....with your zeal for dropping bombs on those already born?

Its a bizarre paradox....dont you agree?

 

[Ravi]

Did you have a talk with you husband about aborting or was it a pretty clear cut deal ?

Did you have a talk with your husband about committing suicide or was it a pretty clear cut deal?

 

[Diuretic]

no, its the same
the state says no, you cant kill the child within
you chose to create it.

My point is that the state has no moral authority to do that.

 

[DiveCon]

My point is that the state has no moral authority to do that.

then it has no moral authorioty to stop anyone from killing anyone

 

[DiveCon]

I just cant equate your passionate drive to save unborn life.....with your zeal for dropping bombs on those already born?

Its a bizarre paradox....dont you agree?

you might have a point, if babies were targeted, but they are, so your posts prove what an ignorant asshole you are