Obama advisors seek rationed medical care

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Obama advisors seek rationed medical care

Incorrect.

You’ve provided no evidence that the Obama Administration is currently seeking to ‘ration’ healthcare, either by petitioning Congress to amend the ACA or introducing new legislation.

Advisors’ opinions constitute neither policy nor law.

 

[daveman]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. But please keep trying.

The White House link I just gave to Eric the Idiot proves I'm right.

 

[daveman]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

 

[daveman]

All fits into thier intent, doesn't it?

Indeed...greater government control over individual lives.

While claiming that Corporations are the same as thier ideology. All I see is a complete and utter attempt to derail the Free Market and the power of the individual purse.

Any company that doesn't practice honest business won't survive by natural common sense.
Yet we have people here that portend to tell us that Government initiated/enforced Healthcare is the same as what is offered by private business.

Hence they blur the line between Liberty, and tyranny with a thumbs up to tyranny (Government).

Government knows best.


The Government's Prayer

Our Government in D.C.,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy nanny state come
Thy mandate be done
On flyover country as it is in the coasts.
Give us this month our monthly check,
And audit us our trespasses,
As we file suit against those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into liberty,
But deliver us from ourselves.
For thine is the oligarchy,
And the power, and the glory,
Forever and ever.
Amen.

 

[The Rabbi]

Given that "cost savings" are going to come through smaller reimbursements, more and more medical providers will simply exit the system. Already there are areas where Medicare patients cannot find specialists to see them.

So the election turned out that way because the issue was "heavily demagogued"? Really? So the Dems had no ability to campaign on what a great success it was going to be? Is this why they never mentioned it? Or was it because polls showed people didnt like the program. And the more they learned, the less they liked.
The Dems banked on that very comment by Kristol (assuming he actually said it). I am sure Pelosi got it through with those very words. Unfortunately the program had to be "back loaded" with taxes kicking in before benefits. THis way they could score it as deficit neutral (another lie). Of course after 10 years it would show enormous deficits, even on CBO accounting.

Oh, please. You cannot dispute that there was a massive disinformation campaign.

Some people believed that there were death panels. Others didn't like it because it didn't include a public option. You lump both in together, unwittingly.

There was a flood of information, not disinformation. Nothing said about Obamacare was false. Even the death panels claim is actually true. It didnt include a public option. Nothing disinformational there. Again, your claims are falling short in the truth department.

 

[daveman]

Obama advisors seek rationed medical care

Incorrect.

You’ve provided no evidence that the Obama Administration is currently seeking to ‘ration’ healthcare, either by petitioning Congress to amend the ACA or introducing new legislation.

Advisors’ opinions constitute neither policy nor law.

Rationing is inevitable. Deal with it.

 

[The T]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

And it's all about Rationing.

I'll take what is IPAB for $1,000 Alex...

 

[The Rabbi]

You know what's funny?

The people who are saying "Private insurance companies ration health care now!" simultaneously believe that government healthcare, covering millions more people with the same number of health care professionals, won't ration health care.

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

"if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." -B.O.
Wasn't Romneycare supposed to be a predictor of how Obamacare will work? Well, here it is. Rationing is inevitable in a system with no other cost controls.
Massachusetts Slashes Funding, Rations Care | Heartlander Magazine

 

[daveman]

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

And it's all about Rationing.

I'll take what is IPAB for $1,000 Alex...

It's not "rationing". It's "advising".

Same goal, different names. Idiot leftists fall for it.

 

[daveman]

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

"if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." -B.O.
Wasn't Romneycare supposed to be a predictor of how Obamacare will work? Well, here it is. Rationing is inevitable in a system with no other cost controls.
Massachusetts Slashes Funding, Rations Care | Heartlander Magazine

That's different. Somehow. It just is.

 

[The T]

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

And it's all about Rationing.

I'll take what is IPAB for $1,000 Alex...

It's not "rationing". It's "advising".

Same goal, different names. Idiot leftists fall for it.

But what is in a name but the same meaning? And as a matter of course they fall for it. Emote all they like.

 

[The T]

You know what's sad? That you have misunderstood most of what's been said in the thread, and you don't realize it. Yeah, government will ration health care. So does private insurance. DUH. We're explaining to you that you're already living with rationed care. Already, so what's your beef?

Were you one of the lemmings who repeated the White House's ridiculous contention that there would be no rationing?

Yes. I bet you were.

"if you like your health care plan, you can keep it." -B.O.
Wasn't Romneycare supposed to be a predictor of how Obamacare will work? Well, here it is. Rationing is inevitable in a system with no other cost controls.
Massachusetts Slashes Funding, Rations Care | Heartlander Magazine

And why Romney isn't moving in his bid for POTUS, and the people aren't buying into it...and refuse to be steered into nominating him.

It's his achilles heel...and Obama will use it against him.

 

[SAT2]

The point of the ACA is to address a massive social ill-people without access to health care, and to address a fiscal ill, Medicare and Medicaid expenses.

Not to control you.

We have always had health care rationing.

During the debate over health care, there was a massive disinformation campaign about the health care bill, including the idiocy over death panels.

The idea that you can switch from one health insurance provider to another at will if you are dissatisfied is ridiculous.

 

[The Rabbi]

The point of the ACA is to address a massive social ill-people without access to health care, and to address a fiscal ill, Medicare and Medicaid expenses.

Not to control you.

We have always had health care rationing.

During the debate over health care, there was a massive disinformation campaign about the health care bill, including the idiocy over death panels.

The idea that you can switch from one health insurance provider to another at will if you are dissatisfied is ridiculous.

No one lacks access to health care. That is the first myth of Obamacare. The second is that his program will do anything to fix it. Of the people who are uninsured, many of them qualify for government aid but don't bother to get it. Others simply choose to go without. And others are illegal aliens. The government's own figures for uninsured before and after Obamacare showed only a slight decline. It would have been cheaper simply for the gov't to write premium checks for all those people legitimately without it than what they came up with.
"We have always had health care rationing" is another myth of Obamacare. Every economic system allocates resources because resources are by definition limited. The question is whether we want the market doing that where everyone is a free agent or whether we want gov't dictating who gets what. The "death panel" story is true. It is inevitably true. But I would rather have my care dictated by my doctor in consultation with me and my family than by a faceless unaccountable bureaucrat deciding my life is worthless because I am 75 years old.
You repeat the claim of "massive disinformation" over Obamacare. But have yet to provide a single concrete example. There was discussion and information disseminated. So much that Sibelius essentially issued a gag order to medical providers not to contact their customers with pertinent information. What was she trying to hide?

 

[Greenbeard]

And it's all about Rationing.

I'll take what is IPAB for $1,000 Alex...

Your semantics game was headed off in the text of the law. The IPAB explicitly cannot "include any recommendation to ration health care."

Looks like you'll have to turn to substance now. The horror!

 

[SAT2]

No one lacks access to health care. That is the first myth of Obamacare.

You are wrong. Many people lack access to health care.

The second is that his program will do anything to fix it. Of the people who are uninsured, many of them qualify for government aid but don't bother to get it. Others simply choose to go without. And others are illegal aliens. The government's own figures for uninsured before and after Obamacare showed only a slight decline. It would have been cheaper simply for the gov't to write premium checks for all those people legitimately without it than what they came up with.

This is baseless. This has already helped young adults between 22 and 26 by allowing them to stay on their parents coverage until they get a job that has insurance.

"We have always had health care rationing" is another myth of Obamacare. Every economic system allocates resources because resources are by definition limited. The question is whether we want the market doing that where everyone is a free agent or whether we want gov't dictating who gets what.

You are wrong, and you admit in this post that you are wrong, in the second sentence.

"The market" does not dictate rationing. Large corporations dictate the rationing. Your take on this is naive.

The "death panel" story is true. It is inevitably true. But I would rather have my care dictated by my doctor in consultation with me and my family than by a faceless unaccountable bureaucrat deciding my life is worthless because I am 75 years old.
You repeat the claim of "massive disinformation" over Obamacare. But have yet to provide a single concrete example. There was discussion and information disseminated. So much that Sibelius essentially issued a gag order to medical providers not to contact their customers with pertinent information. What was she trying to hide?

The death panel story is a complete lie. That is a concrete example, and I'm putting in front of you again.

My father died in July. He was on Medicare, and had a supplemental plan. He was offered every treatment option that would have been offered to anyone else.

He was 85 years old, had a recurrence of cancer, and his doctor insisted that they try another round of radiation. That's government health care. They treated him like any other patient of any age.

 

[The Rabbi]

Merely repeating yourself is not argument.
No one lacks access to healthcare. Show me the person who does.
Obamacare has already increased premiums because now adults get to ride on mom and dad's coattails insteadf of getting it themselves. Fortunately kids in their 20s aren't hard to insure as they seldom have health issues.
Large scary corporations do not dictate healthcare. Sorry. Gov't does a lot more dictating than any private company.
Your father was fortunate that he got sick now, rather than 10 years from now. Now Medicare would give him whatever his doctors felt was appropriate. In a few years as costs spiral and they scramble to contain costs, which is the experience of EVERY state that has some kind of Obamacare, they will tell him what care he may and may not have. Be glad his experience wasn't that of Barbara Wagner.
Terminally Ill Oregon Patients Denied Treatment but Reminded They Can Choose Physician-Assisted Suicide

 

[SAT2]

Merely repeating yourself is not argument.
No one lacks access to healthcare. Show me the person who does.

Please, take your own counsel. The uninsured lack access to health care. The ER is not the same as health care.

Obamacare has already increased premiums because now adults get to ride on mom and dad's coattails insteadf of getting it themselves. Fortunately kids in their 20s aren't hard to insure as they seldom have health issues.

You have not dealt with this issue personally, either. My kid got coverage while he worked a series of low wage temporary jobs, while looking for a good job.

Large scary corporations do not dictate healthcare.

Yes, they do.

Wendell Potter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your father was fortunate that he got sick now, rather than 10 years from now

.

Please rethink this statement. I'm sure you didn't intend it to be as hurtful as it was.

 

[The Rabbi]

ERs don't deliver healthcare? Really?
The example of a small remote town in Appalachia is really not applicable to the rest of the country. The same people lack running water and television. So what? And how is Obamacare going to help that situation at all?
If your father had to get sick he got much better care now than he would have in 10 years. In 10 years his lifespan would be much shorter, since many treatments would be deemed "too expensive" and denied.

 

[Greenbeard]

ERs don't deliver healthcare? Really?

They're required only to provide emergency stabilizing care. But don't worry, Paul Ryan and the rest of the GOP is trying to get them off the hook for that requirement.